bernmart Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I'm teetering on the edge of getting into reloading, both to save $ and strive for better accuracy in my ammunition. I know this site, and Brian himself, is partial to Dillon products; so is the 1911 forum. I guess I'm curious about why no one likes Lee products much, on either forum. Their 1000 seems to offer a lot. I hope I haven't touched off an avalanche with this question, but I'm really curious, and like most of us, don't want to spend more money than I have to to get started. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmercury2 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 buy the lee and tell us what you think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Its not that Lee is bad. Its that Dillon is so good. Rather than try to list the different attributes of each I will just point you to the stats page showing who used what type & brand of reloading equipment at the USPSA Nationals. (Hopefully you are a USPSA member and have the latest copy of Front Sight.) Close to 500 shooters at this event listed the loading equipment they used - >96% used Dillon equipment. IF you need help or info with Dillon stuff there are so many more resources available, both through the factory and here and other forums. Do a search for Dillon here - then try one for Lee..... Whatever you buy - enjoy! Oh Yea - Great quote from a Great book...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I started out on a lee 1000, and ... it worked okay at first. As you start to pump out mass quantities of ammunition the little things that you deal with while making 100-150 rounds an hour really limit you to about 200 rounds an hour no matter what lee says about how great his stuff is. The priming system just doesn't work, and there are a few vital parts made out of nylon that just don't hold up to allot of reloading like we do for ipsc. I bought a Dillon 550, and at first I didn't really like it. Now I can pump out 500- 600 rounds in an hour, and if I'm really on a role, I can top 800. At the end I would have smashed my lee with a hammer, but I gave it to some dude for 50 bucks, with a warning that it was a piece of shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Hi there, I never had a Lee but I can back up what Dave says about the 550. I have a 550 that I bought used (Dave: from Bryan). He bought the press in the late 80's. A bit worn but I still get around 400 rds per hour if I have primer tubes filled and the press starts out clean. The fastest I have done is about 100 rounds in 12 minutes for 500 rounds per hour. I am about 20 years older than Dave, so I can't move that fast. The few things that have worn (or I broke) have always been replaced immediately and for free by Dillon even though I am not the original owner. So, if cost is an issue, be vigilant and look for used Dillon stuff. They do support it! DVC, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g56 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I have been reloading for about 35 yrs, I started out with a Lyman open face C press, a pretty good basic press, and Lyman dies, I felt they were pretty good quality. The biggest disadvantage to a C press is it flexes on rifle loads, so I upgraded to a RCBS Rock Chucker, a great press. Eventually I got into serious Police pistol competion and went to the Dillon 550, I love it! Over those years I had bought loading dies from Lyman, RCBS, Pacific, Lee, and then Dillon. Comparing the Lee dies to those others, the Lee's are poorly made and pretty lightweight, definitely built down to a price. Loading pistol calibers thru a single stage press with a Lee die, took at least twice as much pressure on the presses lever arm than the other brands of dies. Over the years I have replaced every single item that was Lee brand with better quality item. There is a tendency for someone new to buy for price alone, that is significantly more expensive than buying a quality item in the first place, I know a lot about that because I have done it more than once! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I started out on a lee 1000, and ... it worked okay at first. As you start to pump out mass quantities of ammunition the little things that you deal with while making 100-150 rounds an hour really limit you to about 200 rounds an hour no matter what lee says about how great his stuff is. The priming system just doesn't work, and there are a few vital parts made out of nylon that just don't hold up to allot of reloading like we do for ipsc. I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this. I have reloaded for 5 years on a Lee Pro-1000 both .45 and .40 for IPSC shooting (not large quantities of ammo) maybe 10k per year, and I had some minor issues with this press, but, the more I read these forums, the more I see the problems that arose from my press are the same that some XL650 encountered (spilled powder, primers sometimes not correctly seated etc.). All these issues have been solved with careful examination of the mechanism and diligent setup. The primer system can work really good, you just have to remove that annoying clip that allows a primer to feed only in the presence of an unprimed brass. Besides, the flip trays of the Lee priming system require almost zip time to fill. OTOH, I have never heard of a Lee priming system going Ka-Boom... The production rate (real, measured, not theoretical) for my Pro-1000, equipped with case feeder, bullet feeder and so on goes around 500 rounds per hour. This doesn't include FCDing the rounds, because this press has only 3 stations, and, IMO, this is the only drawback that will have me buying a Dillon XL-650 in the future. In the meantime, I have tweaked my press to have resizing and priming done in the first passage (I prepare in advance a can of primed brass), then have a second passage for case flaring and powder dropping (1st station), bullet seating (2nd station) and FCDing (3rd station). I don't want to argue against the Dillon support (which, as per what I read on these forums, is great), nor start a debate on this is better than that, I just felt the need to report my experience with a Lee press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I have a Lee and 2 Dillons, a 550 and a 650. The Lee is mounted on my bench strictly for emergencies and when I want to load a caliber that I don't normally reload. The Lee is just not a robust machine and little things go wrong all the time. There are only 3 stations which mean if you want to seat the bullet and taper crimp on different stations it is very difficult. The primer system is a joke and has never worked right plus it points all the primers at your face in a plastic see through tray. The functional life is not long as the main components tend to wear out quickly. Based on my experience the Lee won't last much longer than 25-50K rounds before some major breakage. On the other hand it is really cheap and easy to set up for lower volume reloading. Bet I'll get some feedback now from someone who loves Lee's. Their dies are good, though, specially the "U" sizers. I use one in my Dillon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I was spoiled and got good information early on. My first press was (and still is after over 100k rounds loaded) my Dillon 1050. It's smooth fast, and like most things, once you work the bugs out, you're flying (to the tune of 2000 rounds per hour when I'm cookin'). Recently I bought a second press. I've gotten into 3-gun a lot more and wanted to get dedicated press for .223. I contemplated the Lee because of bullet feeding, etc. and price. The logic was that I didn't want to drop a lot of coin on a press for a gun that I don't shoot that much. I picked up a Limited gun and figured that I would load .40 on the 1050. However, after really thinking about it and evaluating what my time was worth, not only in loading, but frankly in just screwing with stuff, I opted for a Dillon XL650. I use it to load .40 and .223 and the 1050 is still dedicated to .38 Super. It's a great setup. It runs, it's extremely consistent (last batch had a SD of 3.5) and like everyone mentions here, has Dillon's name on it and with that, the phenominal customer service. Like most things in life, things cost more for a reason (usually). If you go with a Square Deal, it's very affordable, very consistent and will always do what you need it to do. If you want to go faster/load more there's the 550, 650 and so on. With Dillon products, you just can never go wrong. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 bernmart welcome to the forums. I was in the same boat you were at the beginning of 2003. I bought the Lee Progressive 1000. I loaded a total of 100 rounds on it before buying the Dillon 650. I had a ton of problems getting the primers to feed properly and not to jam under the primer seater. The other part that was a pain was adjusting the powder measure. I know it is a lot of money to shell out for a Dillon 650 esp. with the casefeeder but the end result is so much better. You can easily load 600+ rounds an hour of quality consistant ammo. I've loaded prob. close to 20,000 rounds already on my 650 last year with hardly any problems. (I few high primers but that was my fault) I totally recommend the 650 over the Lee 1000. I know the price is a big difference and makes the Lee much more attractive because of that but remember "you get what you pay for" I thought about selling my Lee 1000 but I may use it to load a round I don't use often. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 [same Old Mantra Mode On] Save your money and buy quality. Lee does some good stuff. Progressive reloading presses is not one of them. Dillon is great. Hornaday may be good. RCBS might be good, but they had to shoot themselves in the foot with the Mickey Mouse proprietary priming system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I have loaded alot of rounds on a Lee turret press. Old style 3 hole turret auto index. Dillon is better. If you do not use the priming system on the Lee ( RCBS hand tool ), resize in a separate turret, and charge/seat/crimp in one rotation of the turret ( auto index ), the Lee press is not bad at all. Dillon is better. Lee is cheaper. Both will produce quality ammo. Don't forget, Dillon SDB, their least expensive press, is a very good product for loading pistol, and not much more expensive than Lee. Just my .o2 Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek45 Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 I started out with a LEE turret press, and for years I loaded up ammo for it. Back then I was a starving teenager and I couldn't afford a DILLON. It was slow, but it ran ok. Later I got the LEE Pro 1000 and struggeled with it's crappy reliability for years. JUNK ! The DILLON is SO MUCH BETTER. I really enjoy reloading. DILLON makes it fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 I had good results wit the Lee Pro 1000 for 2 years. Then I wanted more speed. I upgraded to a Lee Loadmaster. I spent the money, set it up and had more problems than with the Pro 1000. It nevery worked right and the bullet feeding system is a piece of sh*t. I sent the whole thing back and took my lumps with restocking fees. Midway was awesome!!!! They took it back and credited me 100% of my money back. Then I bought a 650. After setting it up, which is super easy, I made 400 rounds, slow and carefull. Now I am up to 800 and hour. A Lee cannot, and will not ever make 800 rounds in an hour. A thousand rounds cost about $90, and can be done as cheap as $65, depending on your components. A 650 is easy to justify in 6 thousand rounds and you'll be happy for years. More importantly, Dillon offers 3 different audible safety alarms for their machines, Lee has NONE!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 I agree with TBF. The auto-index Lee turret press is OK as long as you ignore their pitiful priming "device". You're loading primed cases, and the auto-disk measure is a good one, so basically all problems are eliminated. I still use one for odd calibers that I don't load that much of. I've long ago decided that Lee isn't capable of producing a progressive machine that works as long as they continue to use the cheapest junk parts they can find. Much of Lee's equipment could be greatly improved with $5 worth of better parts and still beat the price of anything else by a huge margin. After loading with the Lee, taking 3 pulls of the handle to produce a round, my SDB is like heaven on earth even if I do have to run the rounds through a FCD as a separate process (questionable if I HAVE to do this). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyRock Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Good replies! My presses have been: 1) Lee Pro 1000 - The fastest of the presses I've owned (so far), even with only a three station turret. The difference is the case feeder, not the auto-index (I learned from experience!). I did my crimping (.45ACP at the time) as a seperate operation. I could pick up a cartridge with my left hand and drop it into position where the empty case tube was mounted (on the "Z" bar I think???) and keep my right hand on the handle. This isn't a fine motor skill, so it went as fast as I could pump the handle. Problems - Primers didn't always feed, or fed incorrectly, the auto-index would get out of sync. And, as correctly stated above, it wasn't "robust." I sold it after getting a SDB. 2) Dillon SDB - These just came out and I wanted something with an auto-index. Removing my hand from the handle, picking up a case, inserting the case, grabbing the handle while picking up a bullet and seating it took more coordination than I thought. While the auto-index is very nice, I really, really miss the case feeder! Problems - I wore out the auto-index pawl from use, and broke the primer drop chute from stupidity. Dillon replaced both with no questions asked. Also, my hands were beginning to have problems inserting the fresh cases into the confined space (age related - may not apply to you). I sold it when it was too uncomfortable to insert the fresh cases. 3) Dillon 550B (do you see a pattern here? ) - Excellent press! I can find no operational fault with it. I've loaded .45ACP, 10mm and .40S&W on it with excellent results. But...I find the lack of a case feeder very limiting for any production speed (that's just me - others don't have a problem). There is an aftermarket case feeder that I was considering buying, but that thread fell through. Do a search on this forum. Problems - My timing. Four months after I bought it, the 650 came out. 4) Dillon 650XL - I'm undecided about my purchase of this one. I bought it used, and haven't gotten it up and running, yet. Some parts were missing (which Dillon replaced at no charge - their warranty can't be beat), but I may have to ship the bleeping handle back to Dillon just to install a snap-ring! I can't find a snap ring pliers anywhere that will reach far enough into the handle. I may sell this one for... 5) Hornady Progressive Lock-N-Load - I don't have one, but my son does. He doesn't have the case feeder installed (he hasn't found one to buy, yet!) but he likes it. It seems less complex than the 650, but still have the same functionallity (and cheaper, too I think). If the 650 doesn't work out, this will be my next press. Summary - My 550B is a true workhorse. An excellent product that I'll never sell. The jury is still out on the 650, but I have hopes. But if I can get a case feeder for the 550, the 650 is history! Sorry for ranting. Hope it helps. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Just ask yourself, whose back pocket do you want to put your dollars into. About 10-12 years ago AH magazine (they were good, then) ran a multi-page interview with both Mike Dillon and Mr. Lee. I don't have supernatural powers, so I don't *know* who was telling the truth, but the stories the two men told sounded a lot like the lawyers I heard once on jury duty. Totally opposite. One guy had to be laying out a line of complete BS. Every experience I've had myself, and seen first-hand with friends who've owned Lee and Dillon presses, is that the Dillon works as advertised. The Lee products fail to work as advertised. I'm more p****d off on this topic than the words here relay. Take it or leave it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 SkyRock, For the love of all that is holy...don't get rid of the 650. Send the whole thing to Dillon (for them to fix) if you have to, but don't get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Skyrock, I'll buy your 650 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 I started out on a lee 1000, and ... it worked okay at first. As you start to pump out mass quantities of ammunition the little things that you deal with while making 100-150 rounds an hour really limit you to about 200 rounds an hour no matter what lee says about how great his stuff is. The priming system just doesn't work, and there are a few vital parts made out of nylon that just don't hold up to allot of reloading like we do for ipsc. I bought a Dillon 550, and at first I didn't really like it. Now I can pump out 500- 600 rounds in an hour, and if I'm really on a role, I can top 800. At the end I would have smashed my lee with a hammer, but I gave it to some dude for 50 bucks, with a warning that it was a piece of shit. I remember calling Lee to get one of those nylon parts replaced. They were very friendly, and asked for my credit card number. I remember calling Dillon for 550B parts which broke, and all they wanted was my address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Skyrock-Im all done trying to be impartial, sort of. The 650 rocks!!! Get the missing parts or send it back to Dillon to get fixed. They will likely replace any missing parts and run it for a test to make sure that everything works the way it should. Now that I'm out of Lee hell, I am happier than words can say. My press is always ready to turn out a small batch of 100 or a big batch of 1000, depending on how much beer is at hand. No kiddig, if I have 6 free minutes, I will sit down and make 100 rounds and run back to my sons to have fun. Get the 650 running and make 1000 rounds before you sell it. You won't be sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 DON'T GET A LEE PRESS OF ANY KIND! At minimum get a 550. I own 2 and love them. I haven't loaded on a 650 so I can't comment on it. Just don't get a LEE! You will be sorry! TXAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyRock Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Skyrock, I'll buy your 650 Uh, huh! What are friends for, right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyRock Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Thanks, Flexmoney and .40AET. I've decided to get it running before I make any decision (sorry, Singlestack ). I refuse to admit that the machine is smarter than me! But back to the original intent of this thread: I vote for the 550 first instead of the Lee. Anyway, good luck. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 bernmart, I'm just another to add to the list of Lee owners who changed to the dillon RL- 550B. Never looked back. Wouldn't give my old Lee away. Scared someone might load a bad round on it. FWIW dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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