Bolt vs Auto

[1911vm]

Can same auto rifle be as accurate as a bolt action gun. And if it can why do majority of snipers us e a bolt gun.

[Joe4d]

Bolt guns are cheaper, more durable, and easier to clean. Until recently there wernt many auto rifles that had decent scope mounting options. Nowadays many are using calibers that wont fit in any existing auto platforms. While possible it is way easier to build a tack driving bolt gun.

[jmurch]

If you're shooting under 600yds a semi-auto is more accurate than you (or at least me and most other shooters) are.

Jeff

Edited March 14, 2010 by jmurch

[smokshwn]

Essentially there has always been an arguement that it is more difficult to get an auto to be as consistent as a bolt gun. However, with time and quality manufacturing that doesn't seem to be the case.

According to a lot of folks who do a lot more work with autos and bolt guns in the precision setting. The mechanical accuracy issue is not a problem. But there are significant differences in how each gun needs to be driven in order to deal with the different recoil impulses to get the best out of either platform, with the bolt gun considered to be easier to accomplish this.

So once again although there are mechanical differences in the platforms they can both easily be made to shoot much better than the operator and it comes down to the operator's skillset to exploit that performance.

[BrianATL]

How about if you were to turn the gas off on an auto, what effect does this have on driving the gun issues?

[smokshwn]

How about if you were to turn the gas off on an auto, what effect does this have on driving the gun issues?

If you turn the gas gun into a bolt gun then yes it will drive like a bolt gun.

[mrwhite1]

Basically comes down to what you like.

I have plenty of both... when I'm varmint hunting, I tend to be a little more accurate with my bolt gun, but a lot of it comes from having to be more methodical only having one shot. So I take my time and concentrate a little more... Where as my semi-auto always allows for quick follow up shots... so it lends itself to allowing you to be a little less focused if you are not careful. Or depending on how many targets you need to engage, a semi will be much faster. Really both action types can be very accurate.

Plus you need to factory in the quality of the guns you are comparing.. I have some semi-autos more accurate than some of my bolt guns, and vise-versa.

I think the majority of serious long range / benchrest shooters I know always use bolt guns.

But with that said, buy what you like try it.. and if it's not accurate enough / doesn't fit your needs try the other. Or be like me... when in doubt between two guns.... buy both!

Edited March 16, 2010 by mrwhite1

[M ammo]

I have a DPMS LR-308

I put a JP trigger in it, and Carbon Fiber forearm.

re-loading for the gun, with Full Length Small Base Dies. and Match bullets

I have shot sub Inch groups at 200.

I'm sure it will shoot Ok,, out past that.

If you need a gun to be more accurate than that,,, you need to ask this question on the Bench rest forums. those folks are the one hole drillers.

Jim M ammo

[BrianATL]

How about if you were to turn the gas off on an auto, what effect does this have on driving the gun issues?

If you turn the gas gun into a bolt gun then yes it will drive like a bolt gun.

Just thinking out loud I guess, but wouldn't a right side charging LR308 with adjustable gas be the do it all 308. You have a semi auto capability for fast follow up shots when needed combined with fast reloads with the magazine system. And when high precision low volume fire is needed you simply turn the gas off and your back to bolt gun like performance. I am probably missing something.

[kgunz11]

Gas guns are harder for most people to shoot accurately. They have the exact same accuracy potential of a bolt gun. As long as the chamber is cut straight and care is taken in the loading, gas guns can be VERY accurate. They are different than bolt guns and to get the very best accuracy out of them the ammo needs to be different as well.

[blackstone]

It is not the weapon's operating system that typically is the limiting factor but rather the operator's training and skill level..

In my experience, gas guns are inherently less forgiving than bolt guns, when there is operator error, especially in follow through.

[Filishooter]

I heard a bolt gun is more quite when running a suppressor. Something about the action staying closed unlike an autoloader so all the gas goes through the suppressor and none escapes through the chamber.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Filishooter

[kgunz11]

When shooting a gas gun with a can, you hear more of the action noise from the gun cycling because the gun is much quieter. And yes, a bolt gun will be quieter than a gas gun from the stand point of nothing moving or making noise on a bolt gun after the firing pin hits the primer. I built a .300Whisper on an AR and had an Armalite adjustable gas block installed so I could make the rifle a single shot. It's pretty annoying when you shoot an ultra quiet gun and the carrier/buffer/spring racket is going off right there in your ear.

[ShooterSteve]

Bobby, I'm in the beginning stages of a 300 Whisper project for my AR, and I'm wondering what brand of barrel you went with, and also, are you shooting Whisper brass, or 300Fireball made from 223 brass? Thanks a bunch--Steve

[kgunz11]

The bbl was a 1/8 Rock Creek and I was using brass formed from .223.

[ShooterSteve]

Did you do your own chambering, and is that a service that your shop offers for AR barrels? Thanks

[kgunz11]

If you want to know if that is something we can do, you'll have to pose that question in our dealer forum.

[Graham Smith]

FWIW, I did look into this same question this winter and ended up building an AR-15 chambered in 5.56. My reasoning was that I have no expectation of shooting more than 500yds and an AR can handle that quite well while at the same time being useful for a variety of other types of shooting just by changing sights and ammunition.

That said, if you are going to only be shooting slow fire, then you should be able to get a better bolt action for the same money you would spend on a good AR and have a bit better selection of calibers in the bargain.

[Sabot]

Good discussion! I am going to test my ability this summer by putting my 20" 700 in 308 up against my M1A in Troy MCS with 22" NM barrel. My range offers an 18, 9, 6, and 3 inch disc at 500 yards. Last summer, I could hit the 3" with my bolt about 1 in 3 shots. This summer my test will be the 6" disc. If I can go 10/10 with the M1A, the 700 will be for sale because I don't need both!

[zhuk]

I was told a bolt-action is more inherently accurate than a gas-powered rifle (and we are talking about fine distinctions here) because usually on a bolt action the chambers are little tighter, lock time is shorter, the lock up/lugs do not have that small amount of play you find in semi autos, and that bolt action receivers are more rigid. Plus, all the force is directed towards propelling the projectile and not partially recycled as in a gas system.

I shoot military service rifle comps every week, and there are some wickedly accurate firearms amongst my club's members, especially the match rifles. Like all other shooting sports though, operator error is the main factor!

Of course, I cannot test out the differences between the two actions personally, as semis are illegal in my country (dammit )

A lot more challenging during rapids/sniper snap targets I gotta say

Edited August 10, 2010 by zhuk

[thomjb]

Barrett semi rifles seem to be able to reach out and touch things....

[Tyler Payne]

It all depends on what you need. The ARMY has been using a semi-auto with great success. In a situation with multiple targets at less than 600 yards, the semi-auto is king. But if you want to shoot 1-hole groups at 300 or reach WAY out and touch something, go with a bolt. Either is plenty accurate for most peoples use but a bolt gun would probably be cheaper.

[Wap wap]

I think this is kinda funny on a forum whose basis is built on how fast can you shoot accurately. Ar10s shooting is completely different than ar15 shooting. The guns act differently. A good ar10T (Armalite) will put 5 head shoots in an IPSC target in 1/2 the time a bolt will, even if your good on the bolt. If you take the clock out of the picture add some wind flags, maybe some spotters, wait we need a spotting scope--- well you get another shooting sport.

[Emerson]

No, a semi-auto will not shoot as accurately as a bolt gun. Go to a benchrest match and see how many semi-autos you can find.

[Ken Kwiat]

How about if you were to turn the gas off on an auto, what effect does this have on driving the gun issues?

If you turn the gas gun into a bolt gun then yes it will drive like a bolt gun.

Just thinking out loud I guess, but wouldn't a right side charging LR308 with adjustable gas be the do it all 308. You have a semi auto capability for fast follow up shots when needed combined with fast reloads with the magazine system. And when high precision low volume fire is needed you simply turn the gas off and your back to bolt gun like performance. I am probably missing something.

It really depends on your application. Most LR Tac matches are "one shot, one hit" matches so the quick follow up doesn't help. What a number of the guys are talking about is recoil impulse being different and somewhat harder to master with a gas gun vs. bolt. Makes sense as there's so much more mechanical stuff happening within a gas gun.

But bolt guns dominate most LR matches. Lock time, simplicity, less finicky regarding sized brass, etc. Ultimately I agree the accuracy potential is essentially the same. But, different tools for different apps. I shoot a bolt gun (AIAW) for LR Tac but am working up a AR10 in .260 -- both have their place and I'm looking forward to having a choice. So I guess I'm asking myself the same question. I plan on having good examples of both on hand to judge for myself. When the chips are on the line though, I'll likely be reaching for my bolt gun.

I would argue that, depending on your application, the bigger difference is caliber selection. There is a reason why .308 is sometimes grouped into a separate class in competition. The 6mm/.243/6.5mm/7mm guys have the definite advantage. FWIW.