Major issues with S&B 9mm brass

[njl]

I just got some MG 9mm 124gr JHP and loaded 50 in Win brass to chrono (no issues). After testing out those first 50, I loaded some more. I did about another 100 in Win brass, and then decided to load some in S&B brass. I use the S&B for matches where I might not be able to recover the brass. The S&B was giving me a real hard time on the powder station (RL550b with Dillon dies). It didn't seem to want to bell, and then on the upstroke, the powder funnel was really sticking in the cases. I noticed when placing the bullets in the S&B cases that they had less flare than the Win cases, but the bullets seamed to be seating, so I figured "just enough to seat the bullets is good, no?"

After about 100 S&B cases, I'd had enough. I'd even stopped about midway through and given the powder funnel some scotchbrite rubbing, which didn't help.

Then I decided to try loading some with FC brass (I've previously only loaded using Win and S&B...but have various others sorted and cleaned). The FC gave me absolutely no problems...no sticking or resistance with the powder funnel, and it seemed to resize even easier than Win.

When I was done, I decided to case gage a few rounds (I don't generally bother with more than a very occasional random check and haven't had any problems) and was kind of shocked to find a number of the S&B wouldn't go all the way into the gage. Some would go in, but needed to be pushed out. I decided to use my very dirty G17 barrel as a gage, and ended up pulling 6 bullets from the S&B. All the Win and FC loaded that night dropped right in and out of the gage.

Looking at the bad brass, it looked as if it had bulges right under the base of the bullet. After pulling the bullets (impact pulling "hammer"), those cases would drop right in and out of the gage.

Of the cartridges that failed, some were "new" S&B brass on its first reloading. Some were ones that I'd already reloaded and shot at least once. After recently reading that some S&B brass is actually steel with a brass look, I tested the 6 with a magnet and they didn't stick.

I guess I'm going to shoot the S&B that I've loaded and lose that brass...and stick to other brands that are easier to load.

[Sarge]

I was going to suggest the magnet as well. So I really don't know what you encountered.

The "S&B is junk" crowd will eventually show up but I rarely have a problem with S&B that passes my mandatory magnet test of all my brass.

[GrumpyOne]

I've never had a problem with S&B either in 40 S&W. Friends have told me it's a bear to load 45 in though. Something about the primer pockets....

Could be that the case was never annealed right, that's what is making it so hard. Take a propane torch very gently to one of them at the mouth, soften it up a bit, let it cool all by itself, then try again.

[Two Delta]

Have you tried using Hornady One Shot or Dillon Case Lube?

[BlackSabbath]

I've never liked the primer pockets in that stuff. While some may have luck with SB, I just don't use it

[Alan Adamson]

I notice that approx 50% of the SB brass that I see coming thru my 9mm process is steel and not brass, even tho its colored as brass. There is no other markings that would tell you that it's steel, even the *ring* of it sounds like brass, but it isn't... That all get's chucked ... the SB's that pass go right thru either my 650 or 1050 ..

Alan

[njl]

Have you tried using Hornady One Shot or Dillon Case Lube?

I use pure lanolin, but the way I use it, it only gets on the outside of the cases...so it doesn't help keep the funnel from sticking. It does make the resizing so much easier.

[Vlad]

I still have a couple of K of 9mm S&B brass which is probably 7-8 years old, has seen maybe 10 reloads and it is still kicking. Granted, this is old brass so they might have changed it, but it started with tight primer pockets (for example CCI primers were a no-no) but I'm guessing that also accounts for their longevity.

[G-ManBart]

It could be that the S&B brass is just a touch thicker. Did you mic any and compare to the other brands? R,

[GrumpyOne]

I just loaded and shot some S&B brass, some in my old P9 Factory Comp, and some in my new XDM. While I could definitely tell when loading the S&B, the real truth stood out when firing. I had several failure to go fully into battery with S&B in the Factory Comp, so I set those aside, put them in the XDM, and no problems. Loaded, fired, ejected just fine. They did seem a bit harder to size than the Win or R&P I was using.

[rgkeller]

I was going to suggest the magnet as well. So I really don't know what you encountered.

The "S&B is junk" crowd will eventually show up but I rarely have a problem with S&B that passes my mandatory magnet test of all my brass.

S&B gives junk a bad name.

[Youngeyes]

I was going to suggest the magnet as well. So I really don't know what you encountered.

The "S&B is junk" crowd will eventually show up but I rarely have a problem with S&B that passes my mandatory magnet test of all my brass.

S&B gives junk a bad name.

+1 to the bad name thing. Stick to the devil you know. I've given S&B 45 ACP more than enough chances to reload and always have an issue. Just my experience.

[LPatterson]

Another "case" where my OCD has meaning. Meaning I quit using it after the first attept. It, along with some other brands gets left on a shooting table during match setup.

[TerryO]

I was going to suggest the magnet as well. So I really don't know what you encountered.

The "S&B is junk" crowd will eventually show up but I rarely have a problem with S&B that passes my mandatory magnet test of all my brass.

OK, I'm here... S&B is junk Seriously.

[njl]

Here's what one of the marginal ones looks like. I say marginal, because while it won't drop all the way into the Dillon case gage, it will drop into my G17 barrel.

It doesn't show very well in the picture, but there's a bulge I can see and feel about half way around the case in the area circled. Even with that slight bulge, with my calipers, I can't find any portion of the cartridge that's over the specs for 9mm according to my Speer manual. How do you figure out where the feature is that keeps it from gaging?

Edited March 4, 2010 by njl

[High Lord Gomer]

What's your OAL on that?

I haven't done the 124 JPH (just the 115 JHP) but it looks long.

[njl]

What's your OAL on that?

I haven't done the 124 JPH (just the 115 JHP) but it looks long.

It does look long in the photo. It's 1.130". The bulge almost seems like the brass brass began to buckle during seating...or maybe the bullet isn't seated quite square with the case and the bottom edge of the bullet is pushing against one side of the case? I flipped the seating stem last night back to the FMJ side. It's just odd that this was only a problem with the S&B brass...and not with the Win or FC that I loaded with exactly the same setup.

[High Lord Gomer]

Does that length work well for you? I load CMJs and FMJs to 1.130, but the JHPs I load shorter because the bullet profile is so different.

[njl]

I've only shot a few of them, most loaded a little shorter (don't have my notes handy, but I think they were 1.125"). They worked well. I was loading the MG 124gr CMJ to 1.150" and have shot hundreds of those with no issues.

[BMartens]

Never had a single problem with S&B in any caliber.

That one looks like the bullet started crooked. Do you have enough bell to insure that the bullet isn't cocked when you set it?

I've seen this before, in any brand of case, if you don't have enough bell.

S&B is a little tougher than most brass and it will resist bullet seating if you don't have enough bell and if the bullet does not start straight.

[T.McDevitt]

I was going to suggest the magnet as well. So I really don't know what you encountered.

The "S&B is junk" crowd will eventually show up but I rarely have a problem with S&B that passes my mandatory magnet test of all my brass.

S&B gives junk a bad name.

+1 to the bad name thing. Stick to the devil you know. I've given S&B 45 ACP more than enough chances to reload and always have an issue. Just my experience.

I try very hard to pitch all S&B and everything comes to a stop when I try to load one in my 550.. Fed/Primers will not load in the S&B at least in my 550..I toss them

[SLM]

Here's what one of the marginal ones looks like. I say marginal, because while it won't drop all the way into the Dillon case gage, it will drop into my G17 barrel.

It doesn't show very well in the picture, but there's a bulge I can see and feel about half way around the case in the area circled. Even with that slight bulge, with my calipers, I can't find any portion of the cartridge that's over the specs for 9mm according to my Speer manual. How do you figure out where the feature is that keeps it from gaging?

Like somebody else said, any brand of brass can and will do that. I have that issue with Remington (R-P headstamp) brass all the time. I use a Wilson case gauge and probably 90+ percent of the loaded rounds that fail are R-P and look exactly like your picture. You wanna talk junk brass, that stuff is junk. I've always thought maybe it's caused by some sort of inconsistent annealing of the brass where one side is too hard and the other is too soft forcing the bullet off center.

I traded somebody on here a thousand pieces of "regular" brass for couple thousand pieces of S&B. I really like the stuff. It runs flawlessly in my Hornady progressive and I've loaded some of it 6+ times to Major before I leave at a major match and I still feel bad about loosing it.

[njl]

Funny you should mention that about R-P. While readjusting the seating die (I decided to try the FMJ shaped side of the seating stem), I used a few pieces of brass I had laying around to even things out (having brass in stations 1-3) while making a FC/MG-124grJHP dummy round. One of the pieces was R-P, and it stuck on the powder funnel just as bad or maybe even worse than the S&B brass had been the other night. I guess S&B and R-P 9mm are on my do not reload list.

[Sarge]

Funny you should mention that about R-P. While readjusting the seating die (I decided to try the FMJ shaped side of the seating stem), I used a few pieces of brass I had laying around to even things out (having brass in stations 1-3) while making a FC/MG-124grJHP dummy round. One of the pieces was R-P, and it stuck on the powder funnel just as bad or maybe even worse than the S&B brass had been the other night. I guess S&B and R-P 9mm are on my do not reload list.

If you are basing your choice of brass to reload on whether it sticks to the powder funnel you will soon be out of options. It will all stick occasionally. Also make sure it is sticking on the funnel. Sometimes it hangs up coming out of the sizer die for me as well.

Oh and,Remington is good brass.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Sarge

[BMartens]

Sarge is right. If you start eliminating brass for these problems you will have a lot of bullets, powder and primers with no place to put them.