JoeInKS Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 Considering the purchase of a new 4th Gen G17 for shooting in local IDPA, etc. events. I am assuming that it remains a legal option but considering that very little external modifications are allowed in the Production class, can a person possibly add an extended slide release and mar release? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 The FACTORY extended slide release and mag release are specifically allowed. The former part, however, is a very bad idea. Even most people running a gun like a Glock 34 or 35 that comes with the extended slide release as factory standard usually switch it out for the low profile part off a Glock 17/22. If you shoot with a straight thumbs grip - and most of us do - the shooting hand thumb can ride the extended slide release, resulting in failures of the action to lock open when empty. With the slidelock reload being such a major part of IDPA, this is obviously a bad thing. Actually it's a bad thing in general. Also, the heel of the support hand, pressing up on the extended slide release, can cause the action to lock open with rounds still in the magazine. It's just a total loser. The extended mag button is a bit more debatable. It can simplify, and possibly even speed, the reload since you don't have to shift the gun in your hand to reach the button with your thumb. At the same time, if you press down on the gun at all when scooping it up off a table start, the extended button will be depressed, and the magazine will fall out of the gun on the first shot. How important being able to do a load without shifting the gun in your hand, and how confident you are in your technique to pick up the gun off a table start without depressing the extended button, is a decision you need to make for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt G Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Read the post on the new gen 4's, you might change your mind about them. I would look for a good condition gen 2 or 3 and start there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Go with the Gen.3 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_P Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 I love the extended mag release on my 34, but the extended slide stop came off. I had a few malfs. which went away after switching back to the stock part. I don't know ho available parts are going to be for the Gen4s for awhile.... Best advice is to go with a std 3rd gen gun, unless you really want the changable backstraps. Very well supported and lots of parts available. Good luck, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookie Posted April 5, 2010 Share Posted April 5, 2010 The FACTORY extended slide release and mag release are specifically allowed. The former part, however, is a very bad idea. Even most people running a gun like a Glock 34 or 35 that comes with the extended slide release as factory standard usually switch it out for the low profile part off a Glock 17/22. If you shoot with a straight thumbs grip - and most of us do - the shooting hand thumb can ride the extended slide release, resulting in failures of the action to lock open when empty. With the slidelock reload being such a major part of IDPA, this is obviously a bad thing. Actually it's a bad thing in general. Also, the heel of the support hand, pressing up on the extended slide release, can cause the action to lock open with rounds still in the magazine. It's just a total loser. I have never had that happen. I put extended slide releases on all my Glock's because I have big hands and it's hard for me to hit the standard slide release. Never had the slightest issue with a straight thumbs high grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagi Posted April 5, 2010 Share Posted April 5, 2010 I use my G17 RTF with extended mag release and extended slide stop. I use this on both IDPA and USPSA. No issues here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonInWA Posted April 5, 2010 Share Posted April 5, 2010 I've been very pleased with the Glock extended slide stop/release on my G17, and have had zero operational problems with it. I shoot "thumbs foward", with my strong hand thumb resting in the left thumb indentation on the receiver, and weak hand thumb pointed foward. With the extended slide stop/release, YOU have the ability to make the decision on which release technique to utilize to get the slide from slidelock to battery-it's presence certainly doesn't preclude one from using the overhand grasping or slingshot method. I also replaced the OEM polymer sights with a set of quality steel sights on mine; the magazine release I've left alone. Best, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted April 5, 2010 Share Posted April 5, 2010 Hello: I would get a Glock 34 and not look back. My 2 favourite Glocks are the Glock 34 and Glock 19. With those 2 pistols it covers all the uses I have for them. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBP55 Posted April 5, 2010 Share Posted April 5, 2010 (edited) I use the extended slide stop and magazine catch on all my Glocks and have no issues. I have seen different people have issues with one or the other, they are not for everyone. I have installed many dozens of each on Glocks that did not have the extended controls. I have removed a few of the extended controls from the long slides for people that had issues. I do shorten my magazine catch so it is between the length of the standard and the extended ones. Edited April 5, 2010 by JBP55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockcomma Posted April 5, 2010 Share Posted April 5, 2010 I have extended controls on all of my Glock match guns (3) and have never had any problems. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 I am with Duane on this one. I have big paws, and am quite often hitting the big release, causing my slide to lock open on me. If you want one, lets do a trade. I will send you my extended release, and you can send your standard release. WG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 (edited) I'm with Duane too, the extended controls are really unneeded IMO and just tend to make it far more likely that you'll activate them unintentionally and negate any speed advantage they may actually offer, and got to mention, I've seen more than a few guys tell me "doesn't bother me any..." then observed that they had no idea they were altering their grip to avoid the slide release under live fire... Guess for some they work, I dunno... I know that when I'm really pushing it while training I sometimes don't lock the slide back when empty 'cause of accidentally riding the lower profile one, I'd get an even smaller one on there if I could. I also agree with sentiment that you'd be better off with a 3rd Gen G17 or a 3rd Gen G17RTF2... the recoil spring set-up on the Gen4's is too stiff and causing problems for a lot of guys, with the 3rd Gens you can play with springs (and just about every other component) to dial it in just to your liking and really tune it in, besides, IMO unless your hands are really so small that you just gotta have that measly 2mm smaller grip (in which case I'd just get an M&P), the Gen 4 doesn't offer anything that a bit of grip tape or a bike tube won't take care of on a Gen 3. I've been shooting matches with and carrying the same 3rd Gen G17 for months and thousands of rounds now, and have pretty much decided that if you only could have one gun, this would be the one to have. I changed the sights, installed the little mentioned Ghost 4.5 Ranger connector (good compromise between the heavier but shorter, crisper pull of the stock connector and the lighter, longer pull of the 3.5 connectors... found that the long mushiness of the 3.5 connectors can be just as evil, if not more so, as the weight of the OEM one's to my trigger press), a stronger 6lb trigger spring, a 13lb ISMI recoil spring on the stock rod, and clipped 2-3 coils off a OEM striker spring (generally I wouldn't recommend clipping springs, but since nobody makes one, I have an untouhed reduced power 4lb striker spring and an untouched OEM 5.5lb striker spring that I use for comparison to my altered one to get it right, not too stiff, not too soft... gives me about a 4.75-5.0lb one that feels better but doesn't give any light strikes, and doesn't wreck the trigger-reset either which tends to happen with the reduced power 4lb ones), then the tactical bike tube grip (I actually like grip tape better but have found worn IWB that I also like skin on the side of my torso too, so tube it is...), $.25 polish job, and I'm done. This set-up gives me a pretty darn good 4-4.5lb trigger in a gun that's not only completely IDPA SSP legal, it's been 100% bomber reliable through 10,000 rounds and counting of every different brand of factory stuff and reload that I've tried, and I've cleaned it maybe 5 times (reminds me, I should probably change springs soon to be on the safe side)... IMO these changes walk the line between getting some increased performance out of some of the popular "gamer" mods, while still having a gun that can go to work as a carry gun that may be hurling +P Gold Dots if need be.... The G17 ruled in 1986, and IMO it rules in 2010 too. Edited April 6, 2010 by ck1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBP55 Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 I am with Duane on this one. I have big paws, and am quite often hitting the big release, causing my slide to lock open on me. If you want one, lets do a trade. I will send you my extended release, and you can send your standard release. WG PM sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 Hear me now, and believe me later... The extended slide stop/release will work just fine...99.5% of the time. It will bite you at the worst possible time, when you are most tense. When you most need the gun to run, that is when the slide stop/release will get bumped. It might not lock the slide back, but you will end up with a mystery jam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 Even though I rambled on about how I happen to customize my 17 to my liking in my earlier post, think you're going to be hard pressed to find many real shooters who'll tell you that a G17 isn't already better than most and ready to go bone stock out of the box, and who wouldn't be just fine shooting one that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted April 6, 2010 Share Posted April 6, 2010 Hear me now, and believe me later... The extended slide stop/release will work just fine...99.5% of the time. It will bite you at the worst possible time, when you are most tense. When you most need the gun to run, that is when the slide stop/release will get bumped. It might not lock the slide back, but you will end up with a mystery jam. Amen brother Flexmoney! I really like your way with words! On another serious note. At practice, I never had a problem, but go to my first match and SHAZAM! The magic happens and I locked my slide open two or three times on my first stage alone. All the guys came up to me and commented about how well I did to clear my gun so many times and still have a good time and only one non-A hit, it was a C. They all also reccommmendedd to do like they all did and put the standard slide release on my pistol. Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 It's an easy and cheap way to avoid a LOT of predictable headaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonInWA Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Hear me now, and believe me later... The extended slide stop/release will work just fine...99.5% of the time. It will bite you at the worst possible time, when you are most tense. When you most need the gun to run, that is when the slide stop/release will get bumped. It might not lock the slide back, but you will end up with a mystery jam. None of mine have-and I've used them for years on my G17, G21, G19, and more recently on my G34. I suspect the "inevitability" you're citing is more a factor of using a "high thumb(s)" hold than reflective of any inherent defect in the design or operation of the component itself. The FBI has mandated them for years on their Glocks, since their acceptance/issue; if they encountered multiple/inevitable problems in the field, I suspect they'd dispose them and go with the standard flat slide stop. I'm not discounting what you've encountered, but I think that it's more of a grip/training/personal preference issue. Best, Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 Jon..I didn't say it was an "inherent defect in the design or operation of the component itself." (I can see how it might read that way.) I will agree that it is...what I would call...and interaction/interface issue between the shooter and the gun. My personal opinion is that their presence causes more harm than good. I have seen it time and time and time again. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 It has struck me that there are two basic ways to approach the interface between gun type/modifications and shooting technique, in this case grip. The first approach is to begin by figuring out how you want to shoot, i.e. figuring out which is the most efficient way to grip the gun. Well, that question has been pretty definitively answered over the past 30 years or so - it's a high hold on the gun with a straight thumbs grip. Having done that, if the gun you're shooting doesn't work with that technique, you switch guns. If there are any parts on that gun that don't work with that grip technique, if possible you change or modify the parts. The second approach is to begin by figuring out which gun you want to shoot, and which parts you feel you need for a particular advantage you believe they confer, then build your grip technique around that gun, with those parts. I don't think it's going to come as a shock to anyone that people who go for the first approach tend to wind up with a far higher skill level that those who take the second approach. Because the first group of shooters has approached the problem, on a basic level, with an emphasis on the human element rather than on the equipment. That's why a bureaucracy composed predominantly of lawyers and accountants who are, largely, mediocre shooters like, say, the FBI doesn't have a problem with the Glock extended slide stop. Because they're not holding the gun in an efficient manner. And that's why competition shooters in search of maximum performance overwhelmingly do have a problem with it. Apples and oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtis108 Posted April 8, 2010 Share Posted April 8, 2010 To the extended stuff I say try it. Worst case is you don't like it. So what if you find out it doesn't work for you, in a match. There is another one next weekend. I ran the extended controls on a 34 for years. Never had a issue. Not even one. I think it depends on the shooter. I say try it you may love it. I wouldn't think of changing mine. Early on I loved trying different set ups. It was important to me to have my equipment perfect(set up wise). Now as long as it runs I can shoot it well. Equipment is a minor part of the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Ok, I gotta say it, one more time. I picked up a standard slide lever for my G34, borrowed actually, to try. I went and shot it today. I could not make my gun lock open with it. I had a match yesterday and locked it open three or four times on the classifier alone( I was pissed). Today, I shot the same classifier with my timer in less than half the time, no lockie open. I tried everything to get it to lock open on me. It didn't do it. It cost me big time yesterday, and was on the verge of having me doubt in my ability. Now, I am 100% confident. I will keep working it, but was very pleased with my initial results. Good luck, let us know how things work out for you. Geno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 So good to see when a shooter finds the way, the truth and the light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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