2010 Area 7

[Jetfire]

On the Mag issue. I'm not a lawyer so don't take this a legal advice. Here's my 2 cents worth. If you're mags don't have dates on them after the Sept 1994, then how do you know when they were made? If they have LE (Law Enforcement) only stamped on them. They are most likely post Sept. 94. Read this NRA STATE LAWS: NY

[NoSteel]

Why does USPSA sanction events in N.Y. that include Limited and Open if there is a 10rnd limitation on mags? Is there an assumption that there are plenty of pre '94 mags available or just that competitors will ignore the statutes and run their mags made post ban termination??

[Jim Norman]

Hawaii: No -Grandfathering. Open-10, Limited-10 and redundantly Limited-10 USPSA Sanctioned.

California, no different from New York, with the exception that if you have them there you are OK, but regardless of age, you can't bring in more.

Are you suggesting that USPSA only sanction matches in states without restrictions?

Jim

[NoSteel]

No, I only feel that the requirement should be clearly stated in match announcements. To me limited and open are just that, following the mag spec guidelines as indicated in the latest rule book. And no, I don't agree with the statutes on this restriction. Hold a match in every state, but indicate what that states requirements are. It seems that in a case like this, USPSA is placing themselves in a position to have many competitors at the event in "violation" of the statutes and in this world could place the match and their reputation in jeopardy. My .02 cents.......

[Joe4d]

If you read the law you cant even bring the handgun into the state with or without magazines, Is USPSA NRA approved ? What if I live in a free state that doesnt register or license pistols ? No way I could be legal if the match was NRA approved.

[Jetfire]

Here's an interest part of NY law from NY PL 265.00(15) "15. "Loaded firearm" means any firearm loaded with ammunition or any firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses a quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm." New York Penal Code

265.20 Exemptions

According the a Law Firm that specializes in Gun Crimes defense even having ammo for your unloaded gun and carring it with is a crime. WHEN YOUR UNLOADED GUN IS REALLY LOADED

If you do go make sure you have copies of the match program and your registration with you. I would also have the gun field striped and in a locked case. The ammo in a separate locked case. I would also make my stay as short as possible.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Are you suggesting that USPSA only sanction matches in states without restrictions?

I do think they could pick a more friendly state for an Area match. Or like NoSteel says give more clear warning of problems you may run into. Area matches are designed to bring out of state people by definition.

[jar]

I do think they could pick a more friendly state for an Area match.

USPSA members by state in area 7:

NY 580

MA 258

CT 144

ME 62

VT 57

NH 51

RI 37

How many clubs are there that are big enough for an area match? MA has the same problems NY does.

[Mo Hepworth]

I do think they could pick a more friendly state for an Area match.

USPSA members by state in area 7:

NY 580

MA 258

CT 144

ME 62

VT 57

NH 51

RI 37

How many clubs are there that are big enough for an area match? MA has the same problems NY does.

I found it hard to fathom that Vermont has only 57 members!!

[VirginiaTactical]

Ny is just plain crazy =P. Area 7 is a NRA sanctioned event. I recieved a letter after I registered that I need to keep with my gun in case I get pulled over (which means I will be doing 60 in a 60 and using my turn signla in the middle lane!

I also just decided to buy 10 round m&p magazines. Since clearly the m&p did not exist prior to 1994. I will say this though ... I will not stop attending matches in NY even though the laws are a bit strict. I would like to continue promotion of uspsa matches and generally all 2nd ammendment progress in any state. I am however upset that NY gets my tax dollars while I am up there. 8 hours is as far as I will go for a major match, and NY is the northern most limit for me!

[AWLAZS]

I do think they could pick a more friendly state for an Area match.

USPSA members by state in area 7:

NY 580

MA 258

CT 144

ME 62

VT 57

NH 51

RI 37

How many clubs are there that are big enough for an area match? MA has the same problems NY does.

I found it hard to fathom that Vermont has only 57 members!!

Why is that Mo?

[Mo Hepworth]

I do think they could pick a more friendly state for an Area match.

USPSA members by state in area 7:

NY 580

MA 258

CT 144

ME 62

VT 57

NH 51

RI 37

How many clubs are there that are big enough for an area match? MA has the same problems NY does.

I found it hard to fathom that Vermont has only 57 members!!

Why is that Mo?

because you guys are so active. I think my province has probably just under 100 paid members in IPSC,..the numbers go up and down though.....I just figured you folks would have more numbers.

[bill d]

This really ticks me for some reason but could someone post the location of the Pathfinder club? It's not on the application, not on the Area page, not on the USPSA match page,...........

How hard is it to post the physical address for the hosting club? So many of these Area, State, and Sectional matches list the club and nothing more, no address. I think this is the 3rd or 4th major match this year where I've spent about a 1/2 hour TRYING to find the club. The locals may know where its at but when I have to travel hundreds of miles it's not to easy. Even on the Pathfinder Club site it just gives a PO Box. I don't think the range is located there for some reason.

Thanks in advance.

[dkleskiw]

116 Crescent Road Fulton, NY 13069 - (315) 593-7281

But someone who still lives in NY should verify this. Or call the club to verify?

[bill d]

Thanks.

I did call the club and the fax continues to answer. At least that was the posted number I got.

[Mo Hepworth]

had fun,...good weather. Had a couple of mistakes and shot a little careless on the paper and poppers stage. Is there a place to look at preliminary overalls...

[pmd]

had fun,...good weather. Had a couple of mistakes and shot a little careless on the paper and poppers stage. Is there a place to look at preliminary overalls...

http://www.uspsa.org/

Under Major Results

[lugnut]

Paul- looks like you did very, very well. Nice shooting.

Yeah- real fun match. I liked it this year a lot. Lots of fast shooting- no crazy memory stages.

I shot Production and just made weight for my gun... .3oz to spare. I was shocked it was so close as I don't have much on it. I have a SS GR and it's not even a full length one. Maybe the Dawson sights are heavier than I thought. I bet if I had full wrap around grip tape I'd be over!

[Chuck Z]

Paul- looks like you did very, very well. Nice shooting.

Yeah- real fun match. I liked it this year a lot. Lots of fast shooting- no crazy memory stages.

I shot Production and just made weight for my gun... .3oz to spare. I was shocked it was so close as I don't have much on it. I have a SS GR and it's not even a full length one. Maybe the Dawson sights are heavier than I thought. I bet if I had full wrap around grip tape I'd be over!

You had a great match Dave - congrats. Fun squad too!

[Rob Boudrie]

Relevant points:

• The majority of large clubs in A7, and ALL clubs bidding on the 2010 A7 are in '10 round states' (NY and MA)
  
• The match is NRA sanctioned so it is covered by the exemption for competitors (and I have the paperwork to prove it)
  
• A copy of the relevant exemption is sent out with each confirmation latter
  
• The confirmation letter mentions the 10 round limit
  
• The match staff does not include any NY licensed attorneys, and as such, we do not offer legal advice of any form.
  
• Unlike CA, it is legal to bring in pre-ban mags, buy them, or sell them (in CA, the mags must have been personally possessed in CA before the Caliban)
  

[Glshooter]

Well, I had a very interesting ride home and now I am not sure I want to deal with New York anymore. It's true when people say its not the law that counts but what the cop who pulls you over thinks the law is. If not for the last minute travel plans to drive with a friend who is a LEO I would be in jail right now. I got pulled over on the way home from the area 7 match tonight for doing 70mph. Not that fast but irrelevant. When I took my liscence out of my wallet, he saw the corner of my CT pistol permit and asked if that is what it was. I replied yes and he asked if there were guns in the car. I told him there were and they were unloaded and locked in the trunk and I was coming from a sanctioned shooting competition and had paperwork to verify this. My LEO passenger then informed the NY state trooper that he was also on the job. The trooper told me to get out of the car, led me to the back and proceeded to pat me down. He then told me I was committing a felony and that my CT permit does not allow passage into NY even for a shooting match. He then said go sit on the hood of my vehicle.

He then asked my passenger to exit the car and checked his credentials. the state trooper said that he was OK since he was a LEO but I was committing a felony. After talking to my friend for a few minutes he said that out of professional courtesy he would consider all guns in the car as belonging to him and not to let this happen again. He instructed my friend to get back in the car and then came to me. He repeated what he told my friend and said if he wasn't in the car that I would be on my way to jail. I said to him that I did not want to break any laws and that I had done my homework and had the NY statutes printed out as well as verifying the law with the NY state police which I had previously done. He told me that someone was giving me bad information, there is no provision for going to a shooting competition and that I was definitely committing a felony. He said to thank my friend and be on my way. At this point I wasn't going to argue.

In the end I probably would have been proven right but not after being arrested, gun confiscated, car towed and who knows what else. I got very lucky. Not sure if going to NY is worth it.

[WDB]

Well, I had a very interesting ride home and now I am not sure I want to deal with New York anymore. It's true when people say its not the law that counts but what the cop who pulls you over thinks the law is. If not for the last minute travel plans to drive with a friend who is a LEO I would be in jail right now. I got pulled over on the way home from the area 7 match tonight for doing 70mph. Not that fast but irrelevant. When I took my liscence out of my wallet, he saw the corner of my CT pistol permit and asked if that is what it was. I replied yes and he asked if there were guns in the car. I told him there were and they were unloaded and locked in the trunk and I was coming from a sanctioned shooting competition and had paperwork to verify this. My LEO passenger then informed the NY state trooper that he was also on the job. The trooper told me to get out of the car, led me to the back and proceeded to pat me down. He then told me I was committing a felony and that my CT permit does not allow passage into NY even for a shooting match. He then said go sit on the hood of my vehicle.

He then asked my passenger to exit the car and checked his credentials. the state trooper said that he was OK since he was a LEO but I was committing a felony. After talking to my friend for a few minutes he said that out of professional courtesy he would consider all guns in the car as belonging to him and not to let this happen again. He instructed my friend to get back in the car and then came to me. He repeated what he told my friend and said if he wasn't in the car that I would be on my way to jail. I said to him that I did not want to break any laws and that I had done my homework and had the NY statutes printed out as well as verifying the law with the NY state police which I had previously done. He told me that someone was giving me bad information, there is no provision for going to a shooting competition and that I was definitely committing a felony. He said to thank my friend and be on my way. At this point I wasn't going to argue.

In the end I probably would have been proven right but not after being arrested, gun confiscated, car towed and who knows what else. I got very lucky. Not sure if going to NY is worth it.

There are a few matches in NY that I would like to attend but that ain't gonna happen cause of idiots like this.

Maybe, the state and/or area coordinator could/should find all relevant documentation and AFTER running it by a lawyer or appropriate Law enforcement agencies, to make sure it is correct and up to date, start including it with match paperwork so future competitors don't get jammed up on the side of the road over something stupid. But then again, settling out of court over false arrest could probably get you a new gun or two or three or four,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.

Edited August 8, 2010 by WDB

[lugnut]

Looks like the final results are posted! Wow- I thought I did pretty good in my class (20th) but there were much higher caliber shooters this year in Production I think. Two GMs and a few very high IPSC shooters that were unclassified. Awesome shooting by lots of people for sure.

[NoSteel]

GiShooter: Did the kind officer site what laws he considered you broke(Interstate transportation of firearms, Magazine capacity, etc)? As I have suspected having the invitation paperwork to a match was of no concern to the officer. In the end, did you end up with a speeding citation??? I really wanted to attend this year but was worried about this type of thing . Looks like I'll be stayin in Vermont and be happy with my 11 matches a year. Being a responsible gun owner be damned, looks like our sport is still frowned on by the masses.... Glad to see it worked out for you in the end though.

Edited August 8, 2010 by NoSteel

[lugnut]

Hey- looks like they dropped stage 6- the one with all the ports that most people shot around. Oh well.

On another note- since 2 GMs shot in production will the overall percentages of the match count as a classifier stage??

[Glshooter]

GiShooter: Did the kind officer site what laws he considered you broke(Interstate transportation of firearms, Magazine capacity, etc)? As I have suspected having the invitation paperwork to a match was of no concern to the officer. In the end, did you end up with a speeding citation??? I really wanted to attend this year but was worried about this type of thing . Looks like I'll be stayin in Vermont and be happy with my 11 matches a year. Being a responsible gun owner be damned, looks like our sport is still frowned on by the masses.... Glad to see it worked out for you in the end though.

No he did not say what specific laws that were broken except saying that there was no reciprocity in NY with my CT permit and I was in violation of the law by having a pistol in NY state. I did not get a ticket and he never checked the gun or anything else. Just a stern warning and that I was very very lucky my friend was a LEO. And you are right about the paperwork, he could care less.