Bucky Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 "hosers" like Taran Butler, Don Bednorz and Frank Garcia Anyone who calls Frank a hoser, hasn't been to his match. Accuracy was critical, especially hitting turtles at 20+ yards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBaneACP Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Speaking as the guy who *resurrected* GunGAMES once, I think it's hela-dead, dead as a doornail, not living, kaput, finished, a corpse-sickle, buried, dead as the parrot in the Monty Python sketch, etc. A shame, actually. It really poisoned the well for competition-oriented magazines and give the other gun magazines a rationale for walking away from competition. I had my own falling out with AH; I'd been a more-or-less contributor sonce the second issue. I have not found the last few issues to be particularly interesting, and I don't think I'll be buying it again. I was surprised to see the old IDPA is better than USPSA thing resurrected again, too. That's pretty much a dead horse everywhere else. I would like to put in a plug for Primedia's HANDGUNS magazine. There have been a lot of changes lately, including the additions of Bruce Gray and Patrick Sweeney as a regular contributors. There's a good chance I'm going to get a column as well. A lot of the other writers are regular competitors, too. The editor, Jerry Lee, worked at AH in the glory days, and he's probably the editor most open to new ideas. What I like is that HANDGUNS gives me a lot more latitude than AH did (except in the early years). Write Jerry and tell him what you like and what you want in a magazine. You might be surprised. Michael B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Warning: shamless Plug Mode ON! Yes, I'm writing for Handguns, and I'm pleased to see that Bruce is, too. I do not want to dis any of the other Editors (In case they are cruising the Forum) but Jerry is the easiest to work with I've "met." Life with him as an Editor can be hazardous, as sometimes he'll let me write on what subject I want. Not always a good thing to give a writer free rein. No telling what they'll recount. And he just handed me the Reloading Column for Handguns, so I'll have even less floor space in the reloading room from all the freebies. (Inside joke. Gun writers don't get much of anything free.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Strangely enough, he's okayed several of my ideas, as well. So soon you should be seing the Thomas byline in Handguns along with Sweeney, Bane and Gray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBaneACP Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Thomas, Sweeney, Bane & Gray...that's a creepy thought, isn't it? If we all have articles in the same issue of the magazine, I believe it's *another* one of the Seven Signs of the Apocalypse! Michael B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 I just signed up for a trial subscription to Handguns. Don't disappoint me. Bill Nesbitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisT Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 It sounds like Handguns will be *the* magazine to read. Saying that Doug is criticizing the sport of IPSC because he isn’t winning is less than fair, and couldn’t be farther from the truth. Doug is a mercenary; if there was even a hint of money in IPSC he would be right up there at the top. Even with the distractions of his primary disciplines, he still manages a top 16 finish every year. That's damn amazing if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolJim Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 I let my Handguns subscription run out along time ago with the repeated IPSC bashings Walt Rauchy wrote every month. Sounds like it's time to reconsider Handguns As far as American Handgunner .... 1. The El Prez thing 2. Now the Doug Koenig thing 3. Somewhere in the middle was a Ken H. article about standing down range and having your buddy stress test you by shooting the target next to you !?! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 I was given a subscription to Handguns a year or so ago and was pretty much hoping it would run out soon. Then they cut back to bi-monthly making the whole thing last longer. I was getting so sick of the 9mm vs 40 S&W vs 45 articles and all the other crap that I pretty much stopped reading the darn thing. Just tossed it on the recycling pile. The latest issue arrived awhile back and I hadn't paid it much attention. Then out of sheer boredom I picked it up and started thumbing through it and what to my wondering eyes should appear but a new column by Pat Sweeney. Cool! So now I have I think 3 more issues to see if it holds together before I re-up. I can't believe I am actually looking forward to seeing the next issue. Thomas, Sweeney, Bane & Gray...sounds like a law firm to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 I was going to let my subscription to Handguns expire. And now this . . . So now I'm re-upping for twelve issues. Two years. DO NOT DISAPPOINT ME, you guys. We know where you live (online)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I just signed up for a trial subscription to Handguns. Don't disappoint me. So now I'm re-upping for twelve issues. Two years. DO NOT DISAPPOINT ME, you guys. Would WE do that? Now we just need to get the sales figures up to the point it goes monthly again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 FWIW...I don't think monthly vs bi-monthly should be dictated by sales figures alone. I was a Handguns subscriber wayyyy back when it first started up. It was a pretty decent mag and was bi-monthly. Then they jumped to monthly and that was fine for awhile but then they ran out of decent material. So, instead of a good 120 page mag every two months it turned into a monthly 60 page mag with mostly crap for articles and the same number of pages of advertisments as the 120 page mag. If the content is there to support a monthly, the sales figures will follow. But if the content for a monthly can't be maintained then I would rather it stay a bi-monthly with high quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 About the time I re-upped (early) my Handguns subscription, they switched to bi-monthly... so I've got about two years' worth coming and I'll let it ride. I was, of course, pleased to see the Sweeney article. I also take American Hangunner. I'm just 'observing' both of 'em. I'll let them run their course... and glean what I will, learn what I can, conclude what I might. I've gone back and RE-read certain articles and seen completely different things the second time around. Maybe being a novice is why that happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 "Thomas, Sweeney, Bane & Gray" just down the hall from "Dewey, Cheatham & Howe." I make a solemn promise here and now to all Forum members never to do a "9mm vs .45" article or anything like it, unless I can bring something new to the discussion. I will not do an IPSC vs. IDPA, nor a XYZ will get you killed article. I think I just chopped my "pitch list" to Jerry in half As for the comment that started this whole dialog, consider the source. Doug whips butt on the Masters and other precision courses. Of course it may seem like shooting ability has slipped in field courses. And his exemplar may have had a bad day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I will not do an IPSC vs. IDPA Oh goody! That means **I** can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Regarding the article on standing down range and having a buddy shoot the target next to you: SAY WHAT!!!??? DAMN!!! Was that article for real? I think we need some discussion on that one. You certainly have my undivided attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Regarding the article on standing down range and having a buddy shoot the target next to you: SAY WHAT!!!??? DAMN!!! Was that article for real? I think we need some discussion on that one. You certainly have my undivided attention. A widely practiced version is called The Snake Drill. And boy did you open up a can of worms. Chinese enlisted also do it for officer's paper target practice. You should see that picture. I prefer to not let people shoot when I am downrange. Its a little pretentious I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayonaise Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I cancelled my subscription to American Handjob after Huntington and Smith launched personal attacks on Hack an Stanford. Very unprofessional IMO. People making judgements about things they have no first hand knowledge of. I'll leave it at that. Regarding the "real" El Prez. Go look it up. The IPSC and IDPA versions are not the real deal. They are both cut down versions. There's nothing wrong with either but they are not what Cooper originally designed. The top guns shoot the real El Prez in around 8 sec clean. I don't take it as an IDPA vs IPSC thing. Hack sure liked to run it at the nats. It's humbling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 By cut down do you mean scoring for shots outside the A zone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 As I read one version of Coopers original El Presidente, it's 3 targets at 10 "Meters" set 3 "Meters" apart, start facing uprange, hands at sides. Here is a link to a page describing the drill and the score system Cooper (supposedly) applied in his original test. A Cooper Version The more familiar variants all feature 10 "yards as the target distance, 1 yard as the target separation, and surrender position start. The next level of variance I am familiar with is the option of saying nothing but 12 A's counts. Here is a link to a page with the standard specification for this drill. IPSC Style Prez That is all I am familiar with as far as El' Prez's go. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Here, benos wrote: Compared to 15 - 20 years ago, the average IPSC shooter of today is horribly incompetent at shooting quickly AND accurately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 There is another version attributed to Jerry "Burner" Barnhart. First pass is lower A zone, reload, second pass is upper A zone. Dunno if the attribution is correct or not but it is a workout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBaneACP Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I just finished up a HANDGUNS piece on why I think standing downrange while someone is shooting at you is a Very Bad Plan. It's also (I believe) fundamentally a lie, imparting a false sense of security in that you *think* you know what a shooting situation will be like, when, in fact, you don't know jack. You can crank the *pucker factor* up big time in a force-on-force scenario with Air Soft or Simunitions, and you might actually learn something that could save your life. I say this not to dis' my *very* longtime friend Ken Hackathorn, who has probably forgotten more about training in the last month than I'll ever know. Unfortunately, though, people who know far less than Kenny tend to imitate. All of us of a certain age in the shooting sports are really lucky, because we got to train under the "first generation" of people who actually defined the sport and the styles. But as is the case with all martial arts, the generations that follow start out imitating and end up, too often, either derivative or, worse, different for the sake of being different. I argued this recently with Walt Rauch, who I consider both a close friend and a mentor. While I might not agree with Walt's feeling about IPSC (although, hell, he and Dave Arnold launched it in the United States, so they're pretty much entitled), Walt would be on my list of the five greatest instructors I've had the priviledge to work with. I'm always reminded of a book I did on the relationship between black music and white popular culture (WHITE BOY SINGING THE BLUES, now, sadly, out of print after a 20-year run). I got to spend time with the last of the real bluesmen, men and women who cut their teeth on vaudeville circuits and traveling shows and in whorehouses, who still looked over their shoulder for the hellhound on their trail. The last surviving member of W.C. Handy's legendary Beale Street Band put it best..."Boy, I ain't tellin' you what I *read,* or what I *heard,* or what some peckerwood *told* me about! I *lived* it. I *saw* it. Some of it, I *bled.* You don't like that, white boy, to hell with you!" In general, I'm not a big fan of "collecting merit badges." I like training for training's sake (I refer you to Akido master George Leonard's great book MASTERY, which for me is right on up there with FIVE RINGS, THE ART OF WAR & THE TAO OF JEET KUNE DO as mandatory bookshelf items). Oh well, back to work... Michael B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Seems to me Doug's comments were spoken before by several well known (acclaimed) shooters of high skill levels. Fact remains that the comment was "dead on point". I offer my thanks and respect to those brave enough to state the obvious. Nothing wrong with the sport in its basic form...just need to return a little "accuracy" back into the mix. As for A.H. magazine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Since a few of you seem to know Ken Hackathorn I have a simple question. He has been a trainer for as long as I can remember picking up a gun rag but who the heck is he and what are his qualifications? Most guys list LE/MIL etc. but I have never seen anything like that about him. I know Clint Smith was Mil and LE and Ayboob was a part time reserve deputy something or other up in the NE somewhere, and Cooper is a Marine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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