3 gun AR optic

[mpeltier]

We'll see about that.

The Leupold Team will be using the CQBSS quite a bit this year. Robby Johnson and Dave Neth have already used it quite successfully.

Those guys would probably do well with a TASCO 3-9 on their rifles. Give a couple of middle of the pack competitors that scope to test and see if it helps them excell. (Hey Leupold, hint-hint, I have a rifle needing a scope) That would get my attention.

[Jadeslade]

I think Robby would do well with an M4. Kelly, are you using this scope?

[kellyn]

Nope, I am focusing on Tac Limited with the Prismatic.

Robby tore up the long range course at RM3G with his 1-8X last year. I believe Neth won MGM with the CQBSS last year.

[P.E. Kelley]

Nope, I am focusing on Tac Limited with the Prismatic.

Robby tore up the long range course at RM3G with his 1-8X last year. I believe Neth won MGM with the CQBSS last year.

Kelly,

Would you please tell us what reticule you are using?

Thanks mister

Patrick

[kellyn]

DCD reticle, NOT the turkey plex.

[Jadeslade]

Nope, I am focusing on Tac Limited with the Prismatic.

Robby tore up the long range course at RM3G with his 1-8X last year. I believe Neth won MGM with the CQBSS last year.

Yeah-those are two matches that I would think would benefit from that scope.

[AlamoShooter]

I am just a small nut in a big jar. But the Vortex Razor is very easy on my eyes. when I let a buddy try it they say the same thing. I feel like the Pied Pip per .

I was able to pick up some speed on close range targets with the Razor over my Meopta -to the point that I sold off my Meopta,

I know that Jerry Mc. is on with the Vortex and I will have to find out what he is running.

I do like that the Vortex power ring move Clock wise =left to right so at 1x the cat tail is on the left and with my left hand I can push it up and over to 4 power quickly.

But like I hear they say I sipped too much Vortex cool aid

I don't think too much

[Bentsight]

I'm new to this forum and only participated in 6 3gun matches last season and got hooked. I used a carbine with an aimpoint and did OK out to 200 but this years matches will be out to 400. I have nearly completed the assembly of a dedicated rifle for 3gun and have reached the point that I need to decide on some glass. I've reviewed the numerous optic threads here and on other sites and decided to post my question here. I'd like to get some of your thoughts/experiences/opinions on narrowing my list to one or two choices with my price ceiling of $500.00 for the scope, if such an animal exists. The list I've considered includes those made by Vortex, Burris, Nikon & Leatherwood.

Thanks for your help,

Mike

[AlamoShooter]

I'm new to this forum and only participated in 6 3gun matches last season and got hooked. I used a carbine with an aimpoint and did OK out to 200 but this years matches will be out to 400. I have nearly completed the assembly of a dedicated rifle for 3gun and have reached the point that I need to decide on some glass. I've reviewed the numerous optic threads here and on other sites and decided to post my question here. I'd like to get some of your thoughts/experiences/opinions on narrowing my list to one or two choices with my price ceiling of $500.00 for the scope, if such an animal exists. The list I've considered includes those made by Vortex, Burris, Nikon & Leatherwood.

Thanks for your help,

Mike

The best thing is to get some hands on (look see) on the optics , But the first question is why are were did the Leatherwood inclusion come from?

And you should consider a used scope too like the Meopta or the Trij. I just sold a used Meopta with the mount for a good price to the buyer. several guys are upgrading and selling good to great gear to get better to best gear.

But for me I don't want anything but Vortex from now on The HD Glass gave me back 10 years on my eyes

Jamie

Edited February 21, 2011 by AlamoShooter

[LandLord]

I've got to go with Jamie on the Vortex Razor, shot one at the Texas 2-gun match and was very happy with the scope. I've tried the Leupold 1.5 x 5, the 1.5 on the bottom just doesn't work for close, fast shooting. I have a Leupold 1.1 x 8 CQBSS and although 8 power is nice the added bulk and the amount of rotation needed to sweep from low to high is just too much for a truly fast change. And to tell you the truth the Vortex glass is better in my opinion than the CQBSS glass.

James

[jobob]

I'm new to this forum and only participated in 6 3gun matches last season and got hooked. I used a carbine with an aimpoint and did OK out to 200 but this years matches will be out to 400. I have nearly completed the assembly of a dedicated rifle for 3gun and have reached the point that I need to decide on some glass. I've reviewed the numerous optic threads here and on other sites and decided to post my question here. I'd like to get some of your thoughts/experiences/opinions on narrowing my list to one or two choices with my price ceiling of $500.00 for the scope, if such an animal exists. The list I've considered includes those made by Vortex, Burris, Nikon & Leatherwood.

Thanks for your help,

Mike

The best thing is to get some hands on (look see) on the optics , But the first question is why are were did the Leatherwood inclusion come from?

And you should consider a used scope too like the Meopta or the Trij. I just sold a used Meopta with the mount for a good price to the buyer. several guys are upgrading and selling good to great gear to get better to best gear.

But for me I don't want anything but Vortex from now on The HD Glass gave me back 10 years on my eyes

Jamie

Here's something on the Leatherwood.

http://swfa.com/Leatherwood-CMR-Tactical-Rifle-Scopes-C1519.aspx

It has some good reviews from some "tactical" people. I'm curious about it myself. It would seem to compete with the Burris TAC30, if quality is up to snuff.

[MarkCO]

It has some good reviews from some "tactical" people. I'm curious about it myself. It would seem to compete with the Burris TAC30, if quality is up to snuff.

I've spent a lot of time with almost all of the scopes mentioned over the past 6 months. The Leatherwood is a better scope than the Millet, but it is not in the same class as the Burris Tac30. If you are looking for a good 3-gun scope with a price tag under $500, you really have one choice if illumination is important to you, the Tac30. If you truly do not want illumination, then there are a few other scopes that are in the hunt. The Burris glass is superior to all of them, including the Leatherwood.

The Vortex Razor is an awesome scope, but at about 3 times the street price of the Tac30. The Vortex competes at a higher level giving scopes like the Z6i a run for their money.

[AlamoShooter]

It has some good reviews from some "tactical" people. I'm curious about it myself. It would seem to compete with the Burris TAC30, if quality is up to snuff.

I've spent a lot of time with almost all of the scopes mentioned over the past 6 months. The Leatherwood is a better scope than the Millet, but it is not in the same class as the Burris Tac30. If you are looking for a good 3-gun scope with a price tag under $500, you really have one choice if illumination is important to you, the Tac30. If you truly do not want illumination, then there are a few other scopes that are in the hunt. The Burris glass is superior to all of them, including the Leatherwood.

The Vortex Razor is an awesome scope, but at about 3 times the street price of the Tac30. The Vortex competes at a higher level giving scopes like the Z6i a run for their money.

I agree with Mark on this one , But I have not put any rounds down range through a Leatherwood.

In order to get close to your cost range in the Vortex you would have to go with a Viper PST and i do not have one -Yet- I will get one to go on my back up gun and or my rim-fire gun.

I like to keep a back up gun sighted in and ready when I have to travel a long way to a match.

I plan to get a second Razor at some point to put on my S&W 15/22 for training and Demo of the scope.

[Kyle O]

I checked out Jamie's Vortex, and a Z6i at the texas match, and glass for glass, I couldn't tell a difference 15 hours apart.

The Z6i had a much brighter dot, however, Jamie's battery was dying. I am giving the Vortex a serious consideration when I decide to go with some glass.

[jobob]

Having never handled either the Leatherwood or Burris, I'd still like to compare them side to side. The Burris may be better glass, but the reviews I've read on the Leatherwood are too good to discard it. On the other hand, I've read some fair reviews on the Millet, so I bought one just to try and was very disappointed. My main problem with it is a rather critical eye box. The reviews of the Leaherwood make the comment that it has a very forgiving eye relief, so that in itself would make it a better scope. It is suppose to be very durable, too, even suitable for combat. Without going way up the price ladder I don't know if that can be said of the Burris TAC30.

I have several good scopes: Accupoint, Meopta, and a couple Weaver 1-3s. But I'd like to find a decent 1-4 scope with some hold-over capability for long range, and right now the budget can't handle an XTR or better scope. I was really looking at the TAC30 when I found some reviews on the Leatherwood and became intrigued with it, especially the horseshoe reticle. I do like the Vortex too but it just isn't in my budget cards right now.

[tripletapjake]

I have been running 3Gun for about a year now and I have gone through several different set ups.

For TacIrons (now that they allow red dots), I use to run a EOTech XPS2-2 because of the second aiming dot that is right on at 450 yards for my rifle/load combo.

For TacOptics, I started with a Nikon African (awesome glass) with a German #4 reticle but then switched to the JP ACOG and a set of pistol iron sights at 45 degrees. I had no problem hitting targets out to 450 yards at Fort Benning and the pistol irons are wicked fast on close range targets.

Now that I am shooting the 3Gun Nation Tour in the Open Division, I shoot my JP ACOG with an Aimpoint Micro at 45 degrees. The JP ACOG has an updated BDC reticle that is set up for flat top ARs and is set for 2000 ft instead of at sea level. The JP ACOG also drops the 100 yard line and is zeroed at 200 yards. The reticle is really clean and fast on target. The Aimpoint is awesome on anything up close.

[smoothdraw]

I use accupoint TR24R on LT-SPRE. If I'll do it again I will get a Schimdt and Bender 1.1-4 Zenith Short Dot and call it a day!

[smokshwn]

I checked out Jamie's Vortex, and a Z6i at the texas match, and glass for glass, I couldn't tell a difference 15 hours apart.

The Z6i had a much brighter dot, however, Jamie's battery was dying. I am giving the Vortex a serious consideration when I decide to go with some glass.

A key point for me is that the Razor is FFP so the reticle subtensions are the same at every power. The Swaro is SFP so if you are not on 6x the reticle subtensions are not accurate.

[Alaskapopo]

I checked out Jamie's Vortex, and a Z6i at the texas match, and glass for glass, I couldn't tell a difference 15 hours apart.

The Z6i had a much brighter dot, however, Jamie's battery was dying. I am giving the Vortex a serious consideration when I decide to go with some glass.

A key point for me is that the Razor is FFP so the reticle subtensions are the same at every power. The Swaro is SFP so if you are not on 6x the reticle subtensions are not accurate.

True but for me at least I find that if I need the BDC I am at max magification.

Pat

[AlamoShooter]

I checked out Jamie's Vortex, and a Z6i at the texas ? match, and glass for glass, I couldn't tell a difference 15 hours apart.

The Z6i had a much brighter dot, however, Jamie's battery was dying. I am giving the Vortex a serious consideration when I decide to go with some glass.

That would be Texas with a Big T

Well even with a new battery the Z6 will have brighter dot over the Vortex, 'until the next year'.

With what the Razor's reticle has taught me , I don't think I would want to trade for a new Razor with a brighter dot. I am very happy with the Edge that Razor gives me now on what I see and need to see.

I will have a Razor set up on my Back-up gun at BRM3Gun if you guys want to look me up for a sight in range test drive. I can switch it over to my rim-fire gun.

And with how clear the Razor is , several times I will use 1.5 or 2x for shots I used to use 4x at with my old scope.

Edited April 22, 2011 by AlamoShooter

[smokshwn]

I checked out Jamie's Vortex, and a Z6i at the texas match, and glass for glass, I couldn't tell a difference 15 hours apart.

The Z6i had a much brighter dot, however, Jamie's battery was dying. I am giving the Vortex a serious consideration when I decide to go with some glass.

A key point for me is that the Razor is FFP so the reticle subtensions are the same at every power. The Swaro is SFP so if you are not on 6x the reticle subtensions are not accurate.

True but for me at least I find that if I need the BDC I am at max magification.

Pat

I initially thought that as well. However, there has been several situations where multiple targets were arranged from 250-500 yds in natural terrain that can make finding the target in the scope difficult(think RM3G). Yes the 6x is great for lining up the shot on each individual target but setting the scope on 3/4 x offers a great advantage in field of view. Many times you will see folks at max magnification either hunting for the target due to lack of FOV or coming off the scope to locate the target then getting back in the scope.....both huge time wasters.

[Jadeslade]

I learned from better shooters that is is quicker to take a quick look to transition on rifle arrays than to use the scope to hunt for them, especially when you are at 4x or higher. That's why the Trijicon Accupoint seems superior to me to all other scopes, the triangle reticle is so bright that with two eyes open, it is so easy to take a peek, and get right back on it. Takes more practice than BDC-I love my ACOG-it just isn't great for 3Gun-well maybe if you shoot Open, it might work for you. The Accupoint would be more perfect if it went to 5x or 6x.

[philg80]

I am going to throw the below linked scope into the mix since it is under the price range listed and will allow for a good mount(which they also sale), it is FFP, and has an awesome horseshoe reticle with BDC. It is set for M855 ammo but my 55grain reload works very well with this scope. Ed did a great job on the reticle and it is proving to be a good choice for me. The only downfall I have experienced so far is that the illumination is NOT daylight visible....but the way it is designed it is very clear. I have heard his first run did not have as clear a glass as this current production and having owned a Leatherwood CMR just before this scope I will say the GRSC is more clear. Look through the online manual to see the scopes features. Ed also is working on a 1-6, but prototypes are all that are in circulation now.

http://grscinc.com/CRS.html

[Alaskapopo]

I checked out Jamie's Vortex, and a Z6i at the texas match, and glass for glass, I couldn't tell a difference 15 hours apart.

The Z6i had a much brighter dot, however, Jamie's battery was dying. I am giving the Vortex a serious consideration when I decide to go with some glass.

A key point for me is that the Razor is FFP so the reticle subtensions are the same at every power. The Swaro is SFP so if you are not on 6x the reticle subtensions are not accurate.

True but for me at least I find that if I need the BDC I am at max magification.

Pat

I initially thought that as well. However, there has been several situations where multiple targets were arranged from 250-500 yds in natural terrain that can make finding the target in the scope difficult(think RM3G). Yes the 6x is great for lining up the shot on each individual target but setting the scope on 3/4 x offers a great advantage in field of view. Many times you will see folks at max magnification either hunting for the target due to lack of FOV or coming off the scope to locate the target then getting back in the scope.....both huge time wasters.

I can see your point. I just have not attended the matches you have so the situation like that has not come up. A solution would be to figure out what the mills come to when you are using 3 or 4x.

Pat

[Tuukka]

Been using the 1,1-4x Short Dot LE for about three years now. Have been overall very happy with it.

A 1,1-8x Short Dot should be arriving soon and looking forward to seeing what benefit can be gained ( more magnification on some stages / weather conditions will not hurt and that the reticle is in the first plane is good as it is not needed on 1,1x )

Kelly and others who've been over here, here is some footage from the seasons first rifle match, Level III:

http://vimeo.com/user3679226

( first two videos in the link )