Irishlad

Good deal. Bring some spare hats now that you have your first "25"....it gets easier!

For clay targets, I'd look at the 1100 and Beretta also. Chances are, the auto's will break more than the Browning, but I think you'll need to be in the "tens of thousands" of rounds to experience that...if you perform proper maintenance IMO.

I haven't shot one, but one person I know that has a Cynergy likes it. Initially, they had a recall and some issues I've "read", like many new guns, but it's been out now for almost 5 years I believe. If it were me, I'd ask around a lot, and I don't consider the "modern changes" of any value. Meaning, striker fired, no hinge pin, etc...because the traditional lock-work, trigger designs are so reliable and durable. Their "flex" pad probably does reduce recoil a bit, but it might move too much also...not sure. They have traditional stocks also. So, IMHO, it would boil down to balance, feel, price, maybe looks. Not much help, but as you know without shooting one, the decision is more difficult.

I don't have any experience with that...yet, but someday. Trap, five stand and skeet would be less walking for sure. It would be good if they have carts for sporting. Our club is large enough where they will allow you to take the car if needed. Cuts down on a lot of walking, but not all. I would recommend not holding the gun as a "free weight" until shooting if possible, as much as possible. Often the trap range will have pads to rest the gun barrels. Some people use their "foot". Might help reduce the strain on your lower back.

" Careful, reckless abandonment". But, when actually shooting, I try to "visualize" proper target breaking...without words if I can...in full color of course. If I'm thinking words, then I started the "process" too soon or "evil thoughts" have entered my little mind. Too soon for me, means I'm waiting to shoot and I can't, me anyway, spend 5 minutes thinking about breaking the bird. I'll passively "note" things, think about other, easy stuff, but won't start the process of the "non-drug induced" target breaking "trance" until a minute or two before. Again, that's me and I may have killed too many brains cells over the years to concentrate that long...not that I regret it....

Could be less bullet makers out there? Supply/demand? If they are at full capacity, it would be very hard for them to reduce prices...human nature.

Midwest Gunworks is "known" for their Browning work, but I haven't had any work done by them. Call Browning and see what/who they recommend also.

Bruce is a smart guy. I think he used extreme examples to prove the point. Hunting lends itself well to that example. But, let's say you are a medium to heavy clay target shooter...number of shells. The well made Beretta 391 variations might cost you $1500, give or take. A well made O/U like Browning or Beretta 680 "type" can run you anywhere from $1600-$4,000, so lets say you'll spend at least another $1,000...maybe double of the 391. That's the additional cost, IMHO, of a plain grade, target version O/U...the "equal" of the quality of a 391 compared within the auto world. The next "jump" of "competitive", plain grade O/U varies, but your probably into $6500, $8500 and $10,000 for the DT, Perazzi and Krieghoff respectively. Higher quality, service levels, more options, but 'tougher' argument VS the 391. I prefer the O/U because I believe they are more reliable, simpler, nicer balance, etc. And I'm willing to pay more for that. But, there is no shooting advantage over an autoloader. Every "real" shooter knows that!.

Shot has gone down about 30% so far, where I buy. I'm still waiting for another 30% before I buy "big"...

Very good article and "all true" IMHO. Particularly critical in Olympic trap where you don't know where the target is going before you call...in so far as field of vision, where to look, etc. Angles are wide, targets are fast so little time to "correct" if you "lose" the bird.

I think all plastic lenses can scratch easy. I've used Decot for many years and scratched a "couple" over time. If you were buying shotgun glasses, I'd buy ones with removable lenses.

Sounds like they need to introduce a "Loadmaster II" or another model, fix and/or redesign the problem area's and raise the price. Maybe they are too cheap. My SDB has broken many times, just two weeks ago...again, and I've considered other presses like the Loadmaster. But, too many "problems" on the net. A "clue" is the amount of videos, self-help from consumers to get and keep it running.

Ha, I've done that a couple of times at the gunshop. The guy behind the counter just rolls his eyes and suggested another "style" of gun.

HSMITH, Okay, your one of those "bucket guys" I see at the club. Sounds like you have a good system. Good point on the wad! "Different strokes and all that". I did break the metal "part" that the bottles screw into once. And, I've read the plastic actually becomes brittle with age? I may replace them now just in case. Powder spill is bad, shot is really bad. Mec does sell a part/ brace to prevent the inevitable "wobble" of the bottles when you are "pumping" on the machine or changing bottles...expensive though...but ! MEC makes all good machines IMO.

I don't own one, but my only "observation" at the store was when the handle is raised up, there "appeared" to be a delay as to when the turret moved. My impression was, by the time the turret moved, I would have already had the turret turned manually, and the shell just about being removed..and then into the MEC EZ pack...since I box mine. Again, that was my impression...could be wrong! On the Grabber, 500 rounds an hour, boxed, is a comfortable rate. That's with the "big bottles" also and I remove the "bolt" in back when not resizing... much smoother/easier cycle. Agreed you need to resize if your shooting the same shells into different guns, and that can apply to O/U's as well. They don't all have the same chamber dimensions.

That calculator is a great tool. You need to find out what reloading supplies will cost you locally, or how(mail) your going to buy them. At 3-400 shells per week, price out wads and primers at the 5,000 level(case price), powder in the 8 lb jug and hulls you can buy($.04-$.05 for STS or AA) or buy a case and use them. Shot, your using a "bag" a week depending on what load. So, whatever "deals" if any can be explored. You can reload AA or STS hulls at least 10 times. Then pick an average load from the Alliant link, or Hodgdon and use the calculator. 1oz is plenty IMO. I don't think you can find a new 9000 for $350, but you can buy a new Grabber for that. I don't see how the 9000 would reload any faster than a Grabber, but I've only "worked it" at the store. I wouldn't buy a single stage press for 300-400 shells per week. You'll spend two hours a week reloading, if you are "proficient" with it. Used Grabber would be the best buy IMHO. And the "steal" is a used 650, same machine but it doesn't resize. If you shoot a new shell out of your gun, you don't need to resize it if it's going back in your gun. If you pick up every one's shells on the ground, you'll need to resize at least once. Shotshell reloading is easy, you do save money, better loads, and you no longer have to "search" around for the "best sale/price" and shoot all varieties of different makes.

Good deal. You are learning from one of the best shotgun shooters this country has ever seen...IMO.

The field itself is the same for both, but you are correct in that the "distance marker", the distance the target travels, is 10 yards+ more for International. Regular skeet is 60 yards and International is a max of 73 yards. The International "clay target" is lower, a bit wider and generally harder" so it flies through easier, which means farther, given equal spring tension. You do have to increase the "spring" on the machine and it has to accommodate the wider target. I believe most skeet machines can do that....even the "old" Winchester machines...just bring a "hammer".

I believe that's normal in the model 12. They are not "retained" in the mag tube like "newer" designs...from 1950-1960+. But, I'm not a gunsmith, so I'd call one to be honest. They do fire when you hold the trigger, and pump by the way. Just FYI.

You can convert just about any American skeet field to "Olympic" style, with the addition of a timer. That's easy! Trap(Bunker) is difficult because of the lack of fields. I doubt you could set one up for less than $50,000 and probably much higher. Fields are being added sporadically around the country but there is no organised civilian structure to promote increased numbers, except what's done by select, committed individuals. You have to shoot "qualifying" scores at Zone shoots to reach the Nationals. Then, in most years, you shoot multiple national shoots to make a team. Your country needs to place in World Cup matches to earn shooting slots in the Olympics, meaning you have to prove the shooter/country can shoot. In the old days, every country could send their best 2, or anyone they wanted, to shoot...and some couldn't shoot. The Olympic "boys" have slimmed down shooting, both participants and amount of targets shot! I'd be amazed if Double Trap, for example, is still being shot in 10 years. Like most Olympic sports, you pretty much are a professional, so if your not able to spend most of your time shooting at Colorado Springs or in the AMU unit, it would be difficult...not impossible...just difficult. IMO, you need to be very talented "mentally" to be successful...physically helps too! All the time, money, targets and coaching won't produce a Gold Medal if the shooter isn't "shooter mental". And, as a sidenote: Thank goodness for the Lady shooters who have produced over half of the Olympic shotgun medals( I believe) in the 21st century. Pretty slim without them.

It's smart to have a once a month "trial" set-up to introduce new shooters, or beginning shooters. Just an observation at our club: Unlike the shotgun sports where the fields, range are always setup, pistol shooting is always an "empty range". It's only "set-up" during matches...which means you can't go out and just "try it". It's easy to walk out and shoot the skeet, trap, sporting, not the case with the pistol sports. I mentioned once it would be great have plates set-up for example...all the time. That went over "big". Not enough space may be a problem for many clubs though! As a side note: I've always helped, or tried, with new shooters to use smaller gauges, recoil is a distraction that overwhelms many, and "modified" stations in shotgun to make it a "touch" easier. Using 22's seems like a natural for beginners IMHO.

I got them in, but it was tough!

You'll be "fried" for a "light trigger" pull also...unsafe! Did the AD occur because of the pinned grip safety, or very little engagement between the sear and hammer hooks...easy to bump off ?

I think you pick up about 100 shells per 25lb bag using the 7/8oz(24 gram) load, instead of 1 1/8oz. Shot prices are coming down, slowly. That's good news at least!

Must be regional. Our state championships have around 200 skeet shooters. Oddly enough, I think skeet and sporting have a similiar numbers of members, around the 15,000-20,000 range. Trap usually had around 50,000-60,000 members. Sporting is growing though, or was. I think it might be tough for any shooting sport to grow in this economy now, prices, etc....but!