Irishlad

I'm surprised other manufactures don't produce thumb safeties and beavertails from billet. I'd bet a lot of 1911ers would pay double just to have a non cast-MIM piece. Particularly given the cost of many 1911's. 1911ers are a little "crazy" anyway...and "I are one". Don't "get it" with all the CNC "machines" available today.

I "read" in a Bloomberg article that we may get some relief from these ultra high lead prices next year. Tough to "guess" when to stock up now...if that's true. 80% of all lead goes to batteries, cars mostly I believe, and yet in the USA I have to believe that 95% of all batteries are recycled...at least. Where's that "lead"? Of course India and China have really picked up the pace with car batteries. I bet "they" just didn't mine enough lead for various reasons. This sounds similar to the gas refiners of "hard" to do/build and little incentive to build more with few "players"...why bother? Of course, I'm often wrong.

That's a good reason to reload IMO. You only save a little reloading, compared to "club loads", but you do control the quality and availability with reloading. You save over $2.00 a box compared to the AA or STS loads...if you feel that's worthwhile or you need extra "hard" shot, etc. MEC Grabbers and 650's are very good machines IMO. They work "best" when set up for one hull and just "reload". Very durable/reliable and like most machines, a couple little "quirks" here and there!

Nice shooting I'll bet it was your "ability" compared to the load change that broke them all. But, continue on with the new "combo" because it works and it's a good one.

Bruce Buck is one of the best "resources", all things considered IMHO.

I should have said "some" frames, not all. Choices are good.

All the above except the Browning and CZ have a mechanical FP block that would prevent an AD without pulling the trigger. Brownings, since the 80's have them(fp blocks) I believe, and most models of CZ have them now. XD does have a grip safety but it doesn't block the trigger like a 1911. So, while I agree that the 1911 grip safety is a useless device, "other" brands use more effective "safety" devices so a grip safety isn't needed or wanted. IMHO of course.

Changing frames is going to be a "competitive" modification, not for "work", so they should consider making the frames without the "rails"...ugly, edgy and no purpose IMHO.

Ha, that sounds almost like me. But, I checked the price first...and then I laughed and said "Vihta what? ".

Hardly, you "did" real good. Even if you bought a DT-10, with 10 trigger groups, it doesn't help if your FPs break, top lever, ejector, etc. Two guns when you travel or in sports with "time limits" to return to the line without penalty.

The differences between the two that are undisputed are the adjustable triggers and replaceable shoulder pins. Aside from balance, fit, finish differences etc. Hard to tell sometimes. Beretta has changed balances, weights, bbls several times. The new 682's, IMO, are nothing like the older 682's. I've "read" the 682 frame is slightly thicker, it may have more "hand-work" than the production 686. Same parts internally. But, I know at least one person who has many 10's of thousands of rounds through a 686 and "read" the shoulder "pins" are rarely replaced anyway. Others "feel" the differences are too slight to matter, other than what you like better, and wonder how Beretta "pulls that off', marketing-wise. There is a "feel" of higher quality in the 682, but whether that translates into actual durability/reliability... I wonder. Regardless, IMHO, for the vast majority of people that shoot, I think the 686 will do fine for a lot less money...if they like the feel and have a 'set' amount to spend. Want premium...skip the 682 and go right to the DT-10!

You can save "lot's" of money if you know what you want and have time. If you want a Browning, look at the 425 instead of 525, probably save well over $500...give or take. 325...save a thousand. All similar in sporting configurations. Just be mindful of model and stock dimensions. Browning skeet models have higher ribs and straight "trap like" stocks, unlike the sporting models. Although Browning does have some higher rib sporting models also. That's why it's good to have some idea of what you want. Beretta, look for the 686 instead of 682 series, save well over a thousand, even new!

Tightloop gave good advice. I've shot the 391 Urika sporting model a modest amount...shoots nice. I'm not familiar with the "upgraded" versions with different names and features to be honest. But, luckily in shotgunning, additional "gizmos" have not helped or proven to be of any value IMHO. Exception might be an "adjustable" stock. Cheapest and easiest way to alter a stock if needed. You need to decide whether you want a 28" or 30" barrel. I've seen bolts and trigger parts break in 390/391s. Often a fair amount of rounds through them...nothing to worry about IMO. If your shooting that much, you probably own 2 of them anyway. They are reliable autos. Personally, I prefer the 1100s, but they are more "work" to keep running when you get into higher round counts, compared to the Beretta.

The locking block has a compound cut that fits into the barrels. Doesn't look easy to fit it properly, meaning smooth with equal wear...but I'm not a "smith". It's not something I'd take to the local shop. I'd be amazed if you needed a hinge pin. Try www.artsgunshop.com and/or www.midwestgunworks.com. By reputation, those are the names I hear, particulary Art's...but no actual work done by them. Is you top lever left of center? How many rounds do you think it has?

That hasn't been my experience or "knowledge". I'm not sure what can't be rebuilt on a Browning that would end the "life" of the gun? It's very possible the Beretta 682 series may go longer before a rebuild, and easier to rebuild, but before you gauge that for either gun, you should be into the 50,000-100,000 range. My "understanding" of a Browning rebuild runs around the $250 range...could be wrong.

If I needed to buy additional choke tubes, I'd probably go with Briley based on "reputation". I wouldn't, out of hand, replace all Beretta chokes with Briley until I patterned them or "felt" there was a problem. "Felt" is " I don't like the way the targets break", but " I'm not going to pattern them". As you know, different shells pattern differently through the same choke or choke tube. You can probably get 3 "different" choke constrictions out of the same "choke" by altering the ammo(speed, shot size and hardness)...intentionally or not!

I'm fairly certain the Beretta adjustable stock can be adjusted for cast on/off. Today, I thought just about all adjustable stocks allow for cast adjustment. Before you buy, I'd adjust it and find out if there's enough cast on for you...the shop or owner shouldn't mind. I would be surprised if it couldn't be adjusted to what you need. All Beretta's have replacable hinge pins, and those "cones" that lock into the barrel from the receiver, which is the "primary" way to tighten up the action. 682's have replaceable "shoulder" pins/piece, so to speak. 686/687's do not! I wouldn't let that feature be the deciding point between a 682 and the others. I understand it's pretty rare to replace those! Cole's gunsmithing has a great "rep" for "all things Beretta". Good luck.

I have no particular experience with the Grand Prix, but I'd suspect, like all Browning "Citori" types, it will be well made, reliable and durable. The "actions" are all the same. Since they are "production" guns, you "get what you get", so it would be good if you have the chance to feel and compare it to the 525 or XS sporting models. They will differ in weights, balance, adjustable stocks, back-bore barrels, rib widths, etc it's nice to handle them all. They do feel different, at least the American versions do. It does have the unique feature of being able to switch it from ejecting or extracting the shells...that's neat. Since all that doesn't help you much there is a review at www.clay-shooting.com. Sounds like a nice gun with "lighter" than normal Browning barrels...if that's what you want. Good luck.

Just a thought! If you have 15,000 active members, I think you are doing pretty good IMO. "Active" is the key number. ATA has about 40,000 active members, from their literature I believe, although I've read from other sources 100,000? And ATA is well established, every "jerkwater" town has a trap field nearby. Skeet and sporting "claim" around 20,000 each. I doubt they are all active, but all these sports have the advantage of people shooting them "once in a while" and are not members. Fields are already "setup" so it's easy to try, pick up new members. Pistol? Once a month beginners or juniors "class/ shotgun experience" works pretty well if it's consistent, advertised(poster on the board), etc. What's pretty well mean? If you could get 8-10 per month and actually "keep" one or two, I think that would be great. Gains are in inches at the local level. Biggest "threat" I see the next several years will be the dramatically increased cost to shoot, and maintaining "existing active members". That may be a bigger issue for shotgun, than pistol...we'll see.

As a "confirmed" shotgunner, who enjoys pistol shooting, I'm not sure that would be the main reason for "moving target" shooters. At least not for me and many others that I know. And most, if not all, own handguns. IMHO, the two sports are as different as football and soccer even though they both use a "ball". Looking for additional pistol shooters in the shotgun "ranks" will be futile, as looking for future shotgun shooters in the pistol ranks. Many shoot both(kinda), but given time, money and desire, you really have to concentrate on one if you wish to compete. The pistol shooters at my club are, by far, the "safest" gun handlers that I've seen. And, to be honest, pistol shooters need to be because of the "nature" of the sport. Bullets travel much farther than "shot" and it's a "handgun"...it's easier to manipulate wrong or shoot a "projectile" out of the club's property. And that's happened.

Some "food for thought". You'll find disposable foam earplugs at the same website that have ratings of 33, a bit higher if you buy the right size for your ear. If you buy in quantity, just over 10 cents after each use if you toss them. Some use them more than once...but! Given what is handled in the shooting sports, lead and all that "stuff", it might be better to toss than reuse unless you keep your hands clean and wash the earplugs, etc. If you want even more protection, wear muffs over the ear plugs. It's not double the rating, but increased. I can't remember how much of an increase though! Just a thought. Edited the per cost.

It would be a interesting if the next 1911 manufacturer that comes to market, probably the 50th , designed one without a "working" grip safety...instead of just copying the other 49 manufactuers. Done properly, they might be surprised at how many people would buy one. Easy to do IMHO. Novak's idea is nice, but "typically" 1911ish... very expensive. I'd bet the liability is still "yours", so I'm not sure of the advantage over pinning.

I have no experience with the CZ SXS's, but they are made by HUGLU in Turkey I believe. I would do some "searching" on shotgun websites like www.shotgunworld.com and others, to see what you can find on the "quality" and all that stuff. Google Huglu and see what you can find also. I don't think you could find the Ruger in the price range you want. Used alternatives like the Browning BSS or Ithaca/SKB might be worth a look. No longer made, but "known" for their quality construction for the price range your looking at.

On the S&W's and Kimber II's, the grip safety also enables a mechanical FP block. So, if functional, I don't see how it could AD if dropped...assuming working parts and grip safety not "pushed in". You have a plunger that physically blocks the FP.

One indisputable fact from this survey is, if I were CZ/Tanfoglio I'd "lobby" real hard to allow higher capacity mags in production.