Irishlad

I haven't found a shotgun site as good/comprehensive as this one is for "pistolas". In addition to the some of the sites mentioned, google Shotgun Report which is a read only, informative website that has a lot of good info IMO.

If I were a smaller 1911 manufacture competing in this overly "crowded", look-a-like, copy-cat 1911 market...and 65% of the people pinned the grip safety, I'd "be" thinking of a new 1911 model that might actually be different and sell well. Something about listening to "customers", or something like that. It wouldn't be difficult to design, but it would take more thought then changing slide serration designs or deciding whether the slide or frame should be silver on this year's model. Of course, since it's "labeled" a safety device, I'd investigate whether the grip safety actually performs any safety function...or any function for that matter! Not just keep it because the Army back in 1910 "thought" it might be good on a bucking horse. That excludes the Kimber and S&W with their grip safety FP system, as poorly designed as they are, their grip safety does perform a "drop-safe" function. Simpler and better ways are used by other companies. As usual, I could be wrong, but I'd still like to hear how a grip safety prevents any type of AD...just one example and "twirling" a 1911 with the thumb safety "off" doesn't count.

Nice list by sargenv. Clays is a good powder for 12 gauge. Hodgdon has a wide variety of loads with different hulls and componants so you can stick to the published recipes. Hodgdon will also respond to questions...which is nice if needed.

If $2.00 a box doesn't peak your interest...then you will never "be" reloading. I'm cheap. Plus, I'm very picky about shotshells for good or bad. Once I get "used" to a particular load, I rarely change as I become accustomed to the recoil sensation, hit's and "smell" of the gunpowder.

You can break handicap targets with a skeet choke, and you will hit a fair amount...but you'll never know if the ones you missed were because of the larger holes in the pattern. There's still enough pellets in the core to break targets at distance with open chokes...you just have to be more precise because your "effective/ killing" pattern is much smaller than if you used the tighter/proper choke. Just like some of the best sporting shots that use very tight chokes for all shots, near and far, because they are confident of their ability and the "distraction" of changing chokes exceeds the benefit of going to wider patterns, the All American shooters in trap use full choke. But, IMHO, most shooters would benefit from the widest/effective choke at a given distance. Meaning, full choke at 30-35 yards is "overkill". Mod or IM might be better for most.

If you shoot enough, then reloading may be the long-term "ticket" if you have the opportunity to buy shot, in particular, at a fairly reasonable price. Now that lead costs have caught up with new ammo prices, I think you'll see a resurgence of shotshell reloading. Something that was in decline due to the "promo" loads...that are not so "promo" now!

As mentioned, bottom barrel first and most everyone will shoot at least "mod" for 16 yard. Always better to over-choke, than under-choke if in doubt.

I agree it's a difficult choice. Perhaps, pick one up and see how it feels and the price difference. I "think" adding one is in the $200-$250 range? The good news is they are adjustable and can fit you better for any sport...if needed. The bad news is they are adjustable and you can "constantly" try to improve your shooting by adjusting the stock. Overall, if can avoid constantly changing them, like the balance and don't mind the cost/look, etc...they are "harmless" and can help. I don't use one...but...maybe next time.

If you start to "lean" towards trap, you can always add an adjustable comb to raise the pattern if you wish...or buy another stock. Just an FYI. Brownings 525's and now 625's have a slightly different receivers so 325, 425, XS stocks won't fit.

Trap is the most gun "specific" of the sports, so if you goal is to be the best "trap" shot at the club, then a "trap gun" is probably best. If your shooting trap for fun and will shoot sporting and "whatever", I'd look for sporting models. That will narrow down your search and gun style. Then O/U or auto...or money may decide for you? How much do you want to spend? A Browning 425 is virtually the same as the 525, probably $1500 used. Beretta 686, 687 series O/U's in the similiar range or cheaper. Beretta 390, 391's and variants along with Remington 1100's are good considerations IMHO. There are reputable "shops" with websites like Jacqua's, High Grade shooters, Coles, Millers, etc, etc, etc, that you should be able to buy with confidence. Meaning, 3 day return, should be a good gun, etc. As opposed to sending a check to "someone" on the "net" that has a picture of a gun. As always, try as many as you can at the "club" for as long as you can. Often, good buys at gun clubs too.

Wow, what gun or who's frame if I may ask?

Are you loading 200's or 230's?

I don't have any "comments" on the gun itself, but if I was buying one I'd make sure that parts and "service" are available in the future since Verona, as a name and business, no longer exists. As I understand it, the Verona is made by Rizini, and there are 3 or 4 "Rizini" companies and others by relatives. Very confusing in Italy. You might "try" calling Cole's gunsmithing as I believe they sell Rizini's, etc. Ask them some "what ifs" questions. And, go from there.

Okay, you've already talked to Coles. I missed that. I don't know the answer on your spring question to be honest. On O/U's, light strikes I've seen were due to #1- crud, #2 Firing pin and/or FP spring. The hammer coil springs all appeared to be quite robust. Perhaps replaced at high round counts...just because. But, replace those and see what happens...it's cheap. Sounds like you have time to try some things out. If not, then you might be forced to send it in if you haven't replaced the FP or spring?

While it's still snowing, I'd call Cole Gunsmithing and talk to them first. It may be something very simple...like hammer springs. My comment about different shells and primers worked for me, "way back when". It was easy to try a different primer and I shot quite a bit. Buying different shells at anywhere from $6.00-$8.00 and shooting enough to determine probably is not cost-efficient for you. And may only delay or mask weak springs, FP, etc in your Beretta. I'm not sure of the frequency of your problem or how much you shoot with it.

Ha, what nonsense! If that were true, they would be out of business with their auto. I've shot and "seen" many thousands of 7/8oz fired through the Beretta autos reliably. Plus, only in this country are many shotgun sports using 1 1/8, most everywhere else, it's 1oz or 7/8oz and they are an "international" company. As a "caustic" side note: This is typical of Beretta, they have "earned" their reputation. What "ammo" are you using, or what primers if you reload? I ask that, since I've had a shotgun that wouldn't reliably "set-off" a particular primer, and no problem with another brand. Maybe you try that before you go "mechanical"...so to speak.

EricW, Shot, in volume, is around $38. The "low-end" shells are now $6.25 per box "out the door". Using one of those "cost calculators", re-loading 1 oz is @ $ 4.40 per box. At $50 per bag, it would be $5.12 per box. Big change from just 4 months ago...again from what I see and pay.

If anyone has checked the new shotshell ammo prices, it now "pays" to reload shotshell again...just on cost. At least in my area.

Back to the original question of Estates. I'd call them and ask about the shot "hardness", if that's what you want or need. I'd bet they will tell you. Otherwise, I think ,as many do, that they are quality shells. Meaning, shot roundness, size is correct, good primers that go off, good wad, consistent quality production. If they tell you 2-3% antimony, they are "chilled/soft". 5-6% they are magnum/hard...easy! As far as reloading, prices vary by area and what's available to you. In my area, new shell costs have "caught up", and more, with rising shot prices. I can reload a 1 oz with "premium" components about $1.50 cheaper per box than "promo loads"...when all said is done. That's discounting "blow-out" pricing. Right now, I don't see anything under $63.00 per case? I "think" circumstances have completely reversed in so far as reloading versus "new shells". But, could be wrong!

Don't worry, that's one of the most common "cardinal sins" for beginners learning to shoot moving targets IMO. And, a common "sin" for advanced/experienced shooters when things just don't "feel right". Repeated practice will take care of that, which is the fun part. Very smart of you to start with an instructor.

You do need live rounds to be "extracted" a bit so you can easily lift them out of the gun...if they remained flush with the chamber...it would be tough. I assume you guns are not ejecting live shells?

I've shot Estate shells and they "seem" good to me. Never patterned them, but even if I said they were great...that would only be for my gun...not yours. I didn't notice that they were "dirty" and they won't hurt your bore in any fashion. They are not as good as the STS, AA in so far as hull quality and reloading, and probably their "shot" is not quite as hard as the "premium". That's a guess, because there are no real "standards" that I'm aware that dictate "chilled, magnum, extra-hard" shot. Same "name" but the amount of antimony can vary...which is what makes the shot "harder", etc. So, if it were me, I'd shoot the Estate at skeet, 16 yard trap and targets under 30-35 yards and go with "premium" over 30-35 yards and/or if you drop shot charge. Meaning, if you were to shoot 7/8oz rather than 1 1/8, I'd lean towards extra hard shot. Fewer pellets and you want them to fly properly. One advantage to reloading, depending on component costs in your area, is you can load known "premium" quality shells close to "promo" loads costs...depends on what sport you shoot the most and how much time you have to reload.

That sounds like a good option from Coles.

You could develop the technique of releasing the top lever and placing the same hand over the opening breech to catch/stop the ejected shells...if that's the only reason you want extractors. Something to consider anyway.

Hard to emphasize in "writing", but doooon't touch the ejectors by grinding or altering them in any form or fashion. How'd I do They are the most expensive and important part in the "system" and must be "fitted". I'd call Cole and ask them. Also, go to www.shotgunworld.com and search. You'll read some "stuff" on that. The Beretta system is similar to many O/U's, basically. The sear or lever in the forend is the part to "modify" if needed...but I'd ask Cole on how effective it really is. They do have to extract enough so you can pick them out. Cutting the ejector "springs" is probably the easiest way of reducing the "ejection" force, but it's not exactly like "extraction"...you might be disappointed. I do wish, like you, there were more "options" on ejection or extraction like Browning now has on one of their models.