Doublehelix

Always outdoors if I can help it. I have been sticking 6" splatter targets on a cardboard target.

Great advice. Thanks for giving me ONE MORE THING to have to practice!!! ? Great post Paulie, and this makes perfect sense. This is certainly how I shoot at match speed, why not when working on bullseye techniques? I definitely tend to strain when I am really focused on aiming on a long shot like 25 yards into a small target. I will work on this and try to bring some of Brian's Zen with me... You guys are the best! Thank you so much.

Correct, freestyle and unsupported (two hands on the gun). Thanks. It sounds like I definitely need to work on this.

Thanks, and I was just trying being funny about not being able to see my hits at 50 yds. My (not so funny) point was that I can't see very well at 50 yds, and can barely see the bullseye. When I am shooting my rifle at 50 yds, I use my scope, and then have to use my spotting scope later to confirm my hits, and certainly anything further than 50 yds, it is a necessity of course. I definitely don't focus on the hits until later. I do like (and agree) with your point about 25 yards probably being plenty, but I thought I remember reading somewhere about Brian saying something about practicing at 25 and 50 yds from a rest. Offhand at 50 yds is probably not going to happen for me, although I do shoot steel plates at 35 yds a lot, and actually hit them pretty easily, but those are 18x24" plates which are kinda hard to miss, and I can see them fine even with my old eyes. ("Outer Limits" SCSA stage). Thanks for all of the feedback.

Yep, thumb rest. I can try at 50 yards, but at that distance, I can't even see my hits without a sighting scope! Definitely going to be hard to line up my gun sights at that distance, but I do like the suggestion and it is something I can try and see how it goes.

Thanks for the replies so far guys. I should have mentioned my gun, sorry about that. Ben does state that as long as your gun is capable, you should be able to shoot 4" groups... I am shooting a Benny Hill-made 2011 in .40 S&W on an STI frame, and yes, I have tested it from a sandbag rest at 25 yards (did it last week to sight it in as a matter of fact), and I can easily get sub-2" groups at 25 yards, and that is with some inconsistencies on my part. It is probably capable of sub-1" groups from something like a Ransom Rest.

I searched, but could not find anything on this, but if I missed something, I apologize. I was reading Ben Stoeger's book (Practical Pistol: Reloaded), and he makes a comment about accuracy saying that at a minimum, you should be able to shoot a 4" group at 25 yards offhand. I am not sure I can do that, especially not consistently. I understand that we need to hit mini-poppers at 25 yards at times, so I guess I can see the need, but this is not something that I can do on a regular basis. I am not sure how much this is due to my old eyes, but at 25 yards, a 4" circle is pretty much covered by the sight (even a thin bladed Dawson FO). Yesterday, I was testing myself at 25 yards with a 6" target, and I hit the target with 12 out of 15 shots, but my grouping was not within 4". This is OFFHAND, and I was pretty tired by the time I tested this. I would shoot a few, then put the gun down and rest my arms a bit (I had been practicing for about an hour at this point). Can you guys do this regularly? Ben makes it sound like even a novice should be able to do this at a minimum.

This is what I am using as well. I have not tried anything else to compare it to however, but I do love the way it works for me.

I have been doing some testing with Sport Pistol, and really like it so far. My go-to has been WST which I also like, but I am loving the response from the SP loads.

Still have not found the time to really test my SP loads, but I do want to say that after doing these tests using Sport Pistol, N320, WST and Titegroup, my pistol was FILTHY!!! I mean nasty as heck. My go-to loads are WST, and I have never seen my gun this dirty, so I am doubting it was from the WST. I know Titegroup is not the cleanest (I use it for my 9mm loads), but I only really had 2 different Titegroup loads that I tested that day, so I can't imagine that all of that crud in my gun was from those 2 loads. I need to get a couple hundred SP loads downrange and check the gun afterwards.

I added a thumb rest a couple of months ago to one of my guns, and I love it. Now when I shoot one of my other guns, I find that I miss it a lot.

Or maybe he is new to the forum, and is reading down several pages to get the feel of things? I am not saying you are wrong because a lot of folks are running the tables to be able to use the classifieds, but when I first joined (recently), I found myself perusing posts 2-3 pages deep since I had never seen any of them before. I tend not to revive old posts (the "Lazarus Effect") unless I have something really profound to add however. But since this one has been brought back to life, I feel free to babble! I am in my second year of USPSA, and I spent the off season chasing speed since I was really slow last year, but accurate as heck. This year, I am *MUCH* faster (thank you dry fire), but my accuracy has gone to hell in a handbag. Let's just say I am thinking about changing my middle name to "Mike" after this past weekend's match! But as has been posted here already, it is a constant battle between speed and accuracy, and both take constant practice. My current focus is to get back on track accuracy-wise, and the combine that with my new-found speed if possible. Steve Anderson preaches to start practice focusing on accuracy and not worried about speed, then move onto speed without worrying about accuracy, and finally, shooting at "match speed" and work on calling all of your shots. This is GREAT advice, and my current plan...

No. I only use my bench rest to sight in the gun. Once that has been completed, I normally shoot off-hand. That is my technique, but I know a lot of guys that do test their different reloads from a rest to see which load is most accurate. For me, I want to see which load is most accurate **in my hand** rather than from a rest. I am not saying that is the best method, but it is the method that *I* prefer. You will have to see what works best for you of course.

I tend to work up loads with 3-6 different powder charge weights for each powder and/or bullet combination, and once I get close to the load I need, I may or may not go back and adjust the COAL depending on the results. I chronograph every load which gives me some great information. Normally, I start with the longest COAL that I know works reliably in my gun or guns. If I need to adjust, it is always to go slightly shorter if I need to reduce the charge weight slightly in the case of excessive pressure signs. I tend to make 20-25 of each load to chronograph. I also isolate the spent brass for each load, and do some quick visual inspections for pressure signs, but I save each set of brass in individual ziplock baggies to take home for more careful inspection under my magnifying light. When I am testing, I always shoot at a target to get a "feel" for the accuracy, but once I get close and narrow things down to 1 or 2 loads that I know are awesome, I will then make about 50 of each, and really focus on the bullseye to confirm accuracy.

Funny you say that, because that is my plan exactly! I am going to make up some more loads, then go out with a clean gun and put a few hundred down the pipe, checking the cleanliness of the gun every 100 rounds just to see how it looks. This will be part of my accuracy testing. The N320 is clean, but it is definitely not as soft shooting as Sport Pistol or even WST IMHO. It is a Gold Standard for a reason, don't get me wrong, but I am liking what I see with Sport Pistol so far. More testing is needed to be sure however...

I have a buddy that just picked up a Springy RO Elite in 9mm, and he loves it. I have not shot it yet, but I trust his judgement. He is going to be shooting it on Saturday in a Steel Match, and I am hoping to get a chance to shoot it after the match ends. I am sure he has gone through it on his own however and cleaned/polished/tuned, but he did say it was pretty great right out of the box. For me personally, a 1911 in 9mm has always been blaspheme, so I have never had the desire to buy one. Although that may all change this weekend when I get a chance to shoot my buddy's gun, we will see.

Since I started with USPSA, I find it hard to slow down and shoot "normally" sometimes. I have a Labradar chronograph, and it takes a second or two between shots to reset. If you shoot too quickly, it will not pick up the next shot in time. I do it all the time!!! I have to really focus to slow down, and it is hard for me. When I am waiting for the chrony to reset, it seems like an eternity...

I tested a bunch of different light loads for .40 S&W today. I tested cartridges using 140 gr., 155 gr., 165 gr., and 180 gr. bullets from Bayou and Blue Bullets. I did not care for any of the 165 gr. loads that I made, and the 180 gr. loads were OK, but not where I wanted them to be. Basically, I ended up with one 140 gr. load that I loved and one 155 gr. load that I loved. All load data is for reference only, use at your own risk, and realize that these loads are loaded to 1.180" COAL for my 2011 Competition gun and will not work in other types of .40 S&W firearms that use a shorter COAL. My gun is an STI .40 with a 5" barrel using a 12 lb. recoil spring. Here are the two loads that I really liked: --- Total number of shots 13 Bullet Type: Bayou RN Bullet Weight: 155 Powder: WST Weight: 3.8 COAL: 1.18 Primer: CCI 500 Case: Mixed Stats - Average 877.85 fps Stats - Highest 906.00 fps Stats - Lowest 846.00 fps Stats - Ext. Spread 60.00 fps Stats - Std. Dev 17.96 fps Avg Power Factor 134.27 --- Total number of shots 15 Bullet Type: Bayou RN Bullet Weight: 140 Powder: WST Weight: 4.2 COAL: 1.18 Primer: CCI 500 Case: Mixed Stats - Average 941.40 fps Stats - Highest 980.00 fps Stats - Lowest 901.00 fps Stats - Ext. Spread 79.00 fps Stats - Std. Dev 20.05 fps Avg Power Factor 129.28 --- Both of these loads were VERY soft shooting, and seemed to have pretty reasonable accuracy. I need to spend some more time to verify the absolute accuracy, but after doing the chrony testing, I saved 10 rounds each to shoot at the plate rack at 10 yards, and they were both nailing them pretty well. I will work up some more loads, and do some target shooting to see how these loads compare from an accuracy standpoint, but both look accurate enough at this point for shooting Steel Challenge matches, which makes me very happy!!!

I got a chance to test some loads I worked up using Sport Pistol for .40 Major, and compared them to some N320 and WST loads that also meet Major Power Factor at the LONGER COAL. All load data is for reference only, use at your own risk, and realize that these loads are loaded to 1.180" COAL for my 2011 Competition gun and will not work in other types of .40 S&W firearms that use a shorter COAL. Overall, my impressions of Sport Pistol for this application is really positive. It meters well, and burns relatively cleanly, although I tested several powders today (TiteGroup, WST, N320 as well as Sport Pistol), so it is hard to say for sure how clean burning it is. Even with coated lead bullets, there was little-to-no smoke. I also felt that the recoil profile in my gun with a 5" barrel was quite manageable, and gave me the feel of W231, which I have always loved. Unfortunately, W231 seems to never be the best load for most of my testing in other calibers, but nonetheless, I have always loved the feel of it. The good news is that Sport Pistol shoots as well as it "feels", and I am very excited to do some further detailed tested. I tested loads with 4.6 gr., 4.7 gr., and 4.8 gr. of Sport Pistol using 180 gr. Blue Bullets (FN coated lead) at 1.180" in my 5" STI 2011. Here are the chronograph results: --- Total number of shots 15 Bullet Type: Blue FN Bullet Weight: 180 Powder: Sport Pistol Weight: 4.6 COAL: 1.18 Primer: CCI 500 Case: Mixed Stats - Average 933.13 fps Stats - Highest 971.00 fps Stats - Lowest 911.00 fps Stats - Ext. Spread 60.00 fps Stats - Std. Dev 17.85 fps Avg Power Factor 166.25 --- Total number of shots 13 Bullet Type: Blue FN Bullet Weight: 180 Powder: Sport Pistol Weight: 4.7 COAL: 1.18 Primer: CCI 500 Case: Mixed Stats - Average 951.38 fps Stats - Highest 976.00 fps Stats - Lowest 933.00 fps Stats - Ext. Spread 43.00 fps Stats - Std. Dev 11.87 fps Avg Power Factor 169.57 --- Total number of shots 15 Bullet Type: Blue FN Bullet Weight: 180 Powder: Sport Pistol Weight: 4.8 COAL: 1.18 Primer: CCI 500 Case: Mixed Stats - Average 964.60 fps Stats - Highest 982.00 fps Stats - Lowest 938.00 fps Stats - Ext. Spread 44.00 fps Stats - Std. Dev 11.46 fps Avg Power Factor 171.76 --- All 3 loads met the Major Power Factor level of 165, but the 4.6 and 4.7 gr. loads are just cutting it way too close for comfort, and on any given day, they might fall below the threshold. Definitely not worth the chance. The 4.8 gr. load was a very nice, comfortable load to shoot, and seemed to have excellent accuracy as well, although I will really need to spend some more time testing this to be sure. The ES numbers were nothing to write home about, but I was intent on using my Dillon powder drop without any modifications or extra work. I worked up 25 rounds of each load, and I tend to verify the drop weight every 10 rounds or so. I also used mixed brass to simulate what I would be using in a real-life situation. For comparison purposes, here are a couple of comparable loads using N320 and WST respectively. I have to say, the Sport Pistol loads and the WST loads definitely "felt softer" in perceived recoil than the N320 loads which just felt "snappier" at similar Power Factors. --- Total number of shots 12 Bullet Type: Blue FN Bullet Weight: 180 Powder: N320 Weight: 4.8 COAL: 1.18 Primer: CCI 500 Case: Mixed Stats - Average 965.08 fps Stats - Highest 999.00 fps Stats - Lowest 834.00 fps Stats - Ext. Spread 165.00 fps Stats - Std. Dev 40.71 fps Avg Power Factor 171.71 (I had some issue with powder spillage on my press during the loading of the N320 loads, which led to the high ES and SD numbers. It turned out I was having tons of issues with my RCBS lockout die and the N320 load. Rather than adjust it, I ended up just taking it off of the press during the load development.) --- Total number of shots 45 Bullet Type: Blue Coat Bullet Weight: 180 Powder: WST Weight: 4.5 COAL: 1.18 Primer: CCI 500 Case: Mixed Stats - Average 939.67 fps Stats - Highest 971.00 fps Stats - Lowest 923.00 fps Stats - Ext. Spread 48.00 fps Stats - Std. Dev 10.10 fps Avg Power Factor 167.47 This WST load has been my go-to load for this pistol for Major PF. --- (The WST load is also too close to the Major Power Factor cutoff, and I have since upped this load to 4.6 gr. of WST.) Next up, I am really going to focus in on the performance and accuracy of the 4.8 gr. Sport Pistol load, and I am going to start with a clean pistol, and then examine things before shooting any other powders. I do have to say, I am very pleased with the performance so far, but the accuracy testing is going to be the final proof of the pudding.

Dang. That was some nice shooting. 2 holes right next to each other without even trying.

I went to an Everglades race holster after using the Bladetech DOH (Stoeger's Boss DOH), and at first I had some serious issues and wondered at the "why of it all", but I kept at it, and now I find when I go back to the kydex holster, I have real issues getting my gun out of the holster. There is a much longer upward vertical draw with the kydex.

Easily a 7.5 or higher. I hate clutter and mess.

Just to be the dissenting voice here, and I know I am going to take some flak here, but I have been using the $50 Frankford Arsenal Vibra-Prime for a few months now, and love it. It works perfectly for SPP, but with the LPP, I get the occasional stuck primer and have to remove the cover and fix the offending crooked primer. Some people have reported problems with excess flash that they had to cut off, and when I got mine, I had my Xacto knife set and Dremmel tool at the ready to clean up any issues, but there was nothing to clean! Maybe I got a good one, or maybe they fixed the excess flashing, but I did not have to modify mine at all. One difference is that you do need to shake the primer tray after you add the primers to get them all oriented anvil side up just you would when using the standard primer pickup tubes, but this one takes a few seconds. I tend to load up 5 tubes at once (500 primers), and seriously, it only takes me just a few minutes and I am done. There are a few little tricks that you learn as you use it to make it more efficient, such as don't let all the primers bunch up at the drop hole, and try to angle the unit so they flow in a single file. I seriously recommend this thing to anyone I know, and I have showed this to friends who can't believe how easy it is. This is one of those $50 investments that I now wonder how I ever lived without.

Thanks for the input folks. Back before I started shooting steel and USPSA, I was a much more accurate shooter than I am now. Not that I am bad mind you, I can still hit those long-distance mini poppers pretty well, but when I shoot at a paper bullseye, I notice that my groups are not what they used to be. I was at an indoor range yesterday (it was cold outside), and at indoor ranges, there is not much you can do except work on accuracy, and I was doing OK at 10 yds and at 25 yds, but nothing that I would take a picture of and post anywhere! Then I have the guy next to me say "Wow. Nice shooting." Well, I supposed compared to his Swiss cheese target it was nice shooting, but in most 20 round groups I would get 1-4 flyers, especially at 25 yds, and the groups were decent as I said, but not what I could call "wow". At 10 yds, the X-ring is pretty much shot out, but man there are way too many other rounds spread around as well! I think I have had the tendency to work pretty hard on things *other* than absolute accuracy for the last couple of years. As long as I can hit an alpha or make a steel target go "ping", that has been "good enough". I spend an awful lot of time dry-firing, and working on draws and reloads and target transitions, etc., but I think I need to spend some more time working on absolute accuracy and trigger control again. I used to be able to shoot a target and say "wow", and then would take a picture so I could brag about how wonderful I was (j/k!!!). Time to get back to some of the basics...

0.1 gr. variation out of the Dillon Powder Drop seems pretty common to me as well. Some powders are better than others at metering obviously, and with powders like Titegroup, I can see SDs of 30-40 quite frequently (drives me nuts). With WST, I see single-digit SDs. I have not used N320 in quite some time (hard to find around here, and I hate to pay Hazmat), but I just ordered some from my local shop to try out.