Doublehelix

Actually, it is my HK VP9 and my SIG P938. Neither gun would reliably eat the 1.125" cartridges. 1.06" might be a little on the short side, but it was recommended by another loader, I tried it and it worked. I have not been shooting 9mm for competition, so did not really care that much. Now that I am considering a move to CO, I will be revisiting my 9mm loads, I can guarantee it.

I shot a buddy's, and totally loved it as well. Way more accurate than I expected, and fairly soft-shooting considering its size. I already have a P938 that I have been carrying every day for the last 3 years, or I would have already bought one. I am still probably going to pick one up with the 12-round mag. The 12+1 capacity equals what I carry every day with an extra mag in my pocket for the P938 (7-round mag in the gun, 6-round mag in my pocket).

To chime in on the accuracy issue... My new X5 was not as accurate as I expected either. It was pretty disappointing actually. Side-by-side with my HK VP9 was no comparison, the HK kicked the X5's butt. I am still working on finding the right load, and since the gun is brand new, I am sure it needs some time to break in. My second range trip was better, but nowhere what I would have expected from all the reading I have been doing. My current load are the 124 gr. RMR JHP bullets over 4.1 TG at 1.06". I have been loading them shorter so they cycle in all of my guns. They are chrony'ing up to 138 PF or so, so I might either lengthen the COAL a bit or reduce the charge to get closer to 133 PF. I used to load at 1.125" for my SIG P226, but the HK and my P938 did not like them that long.

Thanks for that info, very helpful. I have not cleaned it yet other than the initial cleaning of the factory goop before shooting. I am up to about 400 rounds now, so it is definitely time for a cleaning. With a new gun, I like to clean every 100-200 rounds or so until reaching about 1,000, but today I took her out on a whim before having a chance to clean her up. Will clean her for sure tomorrow.

Just as a follow up to my last post... I took her out again today and shot much better. I am still not a fan of the grip, but I can fix that. I think my hand is healing a bit each day, so that is a plus. I spent a couple of mags with my pistol rest to fine-tune the sights, and then got to shooting... I got some pretty tight groups offhand at 10 yards, with almost all of the variation being in elevation, which makes sense as I get used to these sights. Windage-wise, it was pretty amazing. The patterns were vertical and narrow. I was definitely shooting out the red, so that made me happy. I had two light primer strikes today, first misfires I have had in a long, long time with *any* gun. Both were in the same mag (next to last of the day), which was a little concerning. Got a small indentation in the primers, but no ignition. Not sure if it is the gun or the ammo, but it was weird. I also shot some 115 gr. factory ammo that I had laying around, and it did surprisingly well too. The 124 gr. loads were superior, but the factory loads did much better than I expected. Other than the worry over the light primer strikes, I am happy. Now to work on that grip...

X-Five Review from a 2011 Limited Shooter - First Range Trip, Initial Impressions: I really liked the gun. Didn't totally love it, but liked it a lot. It cycled 100% with my handmade loads (RMR JHP 124 gr. under 4.1 gr TG at 1.06"). Chrony says 133 PF, so that is right where I want to be. Zero failures out of the first 200 rounds(189, or 9 mags), which is really outstanding. Accuracy was "OK". From the reports I have been hearing from others, I really expected half-inch groups at 35 yards off-hand, while blindfolded! It took a while to get her sighted in (the sights were pretty far off for my sight picture), but once I did, I was getting 3-4" groups at 10 yards. Not very good. I didn't even try to go longer after getting groups that size at 10 yds. Now in the gun's defense, this is my first time shooting since having hand surgery 2 weeks ago, and my weak hand is pretty tender still. I bandaged it up pretty good to help buffer the recoil, but it should not have mattered that much. For comparison, I brought my HK VP9, which is my only other striker-fired pistol. The HK easily outshot the X-Five. Now, before anyone comments on familiarity, I never really shoot the HK, and in fact I am sure I have not even shot it in well over a year. The HK was shooting 2" groups at 10 yds without breaking a sweat. Also, I was indoors, which always sucks. Loud and percussive. I only shoot indoors nowadays when I am in a hurry or the weather is really bad. I never shoot as well indoors because I hate it so much, plus it is boring as heck!!! To be fair, it is a new gun, and needs to be broken in some, I realize that, and I am not panicking yet, but I guess I just expected better performance. I am sure it has a lot to do with the shooter and non-familiarity with gun. Next range trip, I will bring my rest and see how she shoots from the rest. I left it totally stock, although I do have quite a collection of upgrades (GG competition trigger kit, Fat guide rod, etc.). Before I start messing with anything, I want to make sure the gun is reliable as-is. I have to say that after shooting 2011's for so long, I am used to a wider grip. I either need to get used to the narrower grip on the X-5, or modify the existing grip. I do like the grip angle just fine however, so that is a real plus. I did try a mag's worth of 124 gr. RN handloads as well, but those did not shot as well as the JHPs. Once she gets broken in well enough, I will need to try a few different types of ammo and see what she likes to eat. The sights are great, although there is a lot of real estate on both sides of the front sight, either from a skinnier front site or a larger rear site opening than I am used to. I do plan on adding a Romeo1 eventually (already ordered and received), so I am not really going to worry about this. Overall, I was pretty impressed with the functioning, but the narrow grip and the "OK" accuracy were definite downsides at this point. They are very possibly related to be honest... I am going to get close to 1,000 rounds down the pipe before I start messing with anything, but honestly, I think the grip is going to drive me crazy. I don't have huge hands, but I am just used to the wider 2011 grips, and this gun feels a bit odd in my hands. So that is my initial impression after the first 200 rounds. Not sure that it means much of anything at this point, and a better evaluation can be made after a thousand rounds or so, but I wanted to capture these initial thoughts while they were still fresh, so I can hopefully revisit this post in a couple of weeks and laugh at my folly!

I have a new X5 that I still have not shot yet due to hand surgery that is taking longer to heal than I thought. It is on my left hand (weak hand) right where the recoil would be felt most (of course). My go-to 9mm loads for my SIG P226 Legion SAO are 4.1 gr. TG under a 124 gr. RMR JHP, which gets me to about 132-133 PF. I know the X5 has a longer barrel so I expected to have to do some massaging to the load, but you guys are loading much lower than I was loading with TG. I also started making them shorter than I needed to for full backwards compatibility with other 9mm guns I own, so I am down to 1.06" with 4.1 TG under 124 JHP. Sounds like this is going to be at bit on the hot side for the X-5. I want to hit that 132-133 PF range again, but with the X5. I should be able to get out this week, the scar is healing and feels better each day. I will take the chronograph and see what I get.

So you did make a cover that covers the whole body *with* the shroud, or *without* the shroud? If it is with the shroud, you should make a few more and sell them!!! I'd buy one!

Thanks guys, I sure hope so... I know I am just being paranoid, but I have read a lot of both positive *and* negative press on the Romeo1. I just need to test for myself and not pay attention to that stuff, but it can be hard to ignore. Did not think about the plastic cover. They need to make one to fit with the shroud, and in fact, it should come standard with the shroud if you ask me. I wonder how hard it would be to get one designed for a 3-D printer?

I just received my Romeo1 from Optics Planet, but was told that the shroud would be another 5-7 weeks. I wonder what is up with that? I get that they are relatively new, but these should be pretty easy to stamp out and bend in large quantities. If the demand is *that* great for these protective covers, that tells me something about the robustness of the Romeo1 itself. Not a good sign...

I just got my kit yesterday and noticed that too. I wondered if they were different strengths (I haven't opened the package yet, just looking through the plastic), but they don't appear to be marked differently. Are there any other required springs in the replacement that are identical? I have not gone through the instal video(s) yet. If not, then I would guess it is just in case of a "flying spring install" which are no fun. Ask me how I know. Speaking of videos... what are using as a guide for the install?

Dang. Too bad. That would be really great for CO. I am so used to it on my LTD guns...

Thanks to all who responded to my post. I have been dry-firing the gun a lot, and the trigger seems to be smoothing out just from dry-firing which is a good sign. My left hand is all bandaged up, so it is hard to tell much about the grip yet, but it does feel a bit slippery. I shoot a 2011 in LTD that is completely customized and fine-tuned, so I do realize that this is not a fair comparison vs. a brand-new stock "production" pistol, and especially since I have not even live-fired the dang thing yet! Stitches come out on Monday (tomorrow), and the GG trigger kit and guide rod arrive on Tuesday. I am going to try to get out and shoot it a bit before any modifications so I can get a bit of a before-and-after comparison. I haven't even taken her down for a clean and lube yet since I really don't have a lot of use with my left hand, but I am sure I will polish her up a bit as well while I have it apart. I waited to schedule my surgery for November 1st (after the Indiana State USPSA match) thinking that would be a good time, but I should have waited another month or so as we are having some really great weather this month, and I have already gone 10+ days without shooting. I know the good weather is waning, so I am hoping to get some range time with the X5 before I get stuck at the indoor ranges for the winter (I am a wuss when it comes to the cold). I want to work on target transitions and moving to really check out sight acquisition with the RDS. Indoor shooting around here means standing still and shooting at a bullseye. Woo-hoo. Exciting. ? I am really glad to hear the positive comments on the Romeo1 6 MOA, there seems to be a lot of hate out there on this RDS, so I have been pretty worried about that. The only other RDS I have is a 3 MOA Vortex Venom on my S&W .22 pistol that I have taken to a couple of steel matches. It seems to work fine, but I think my eyes would prefer the 6 MOA. My wife loves it that way however, so I am going to keep it as-is for now. Thanks again to all who have taken the time to respond.

This is what keeps me away as well, although I love the thumb rest in my LTD gun. I was perusing the CO rules just now (Appendix D7), and it almost sounds ambiguous (I know I am stretching things here, but I am hoping to find a loophole! 21.4 Grips: Replacement grip panels are allowed provided they do not extend below the butt of the gun to form a make-shift magwell. Grip modifications such as, but not limited to, undercutting/smoothing the trigger guard, adding or removing finger grooves, or adding stippling, grip tape, or checkering are specifically allowed. Grip tape or grip sleeves cannot disengage a grip safety. Grips may not be modified to create a thumb rest or beavertail. This almost sounds like they are talking about grip tape build-up beings used to create a thumb rest. It says you cannot CREATE a thumb rest or beavertail. The X5 has a beavertail, but I did not create it with skateboard tape. It is legal. I wonder if the thumb rest could be the same thing???? 21.6 Exchange of minor EXTERNAL components Sights, firing pins, firing pin retainers, pins, extractors, magazine releases, slide stops, thumb safeties, triggers, hammers, bushings, and ejectors MAY be replaced with OFM or aftermarket parts. •Barrels are considered “external parts” and are subject to specific restrictions in 21.3. It says here that you can replace external parts with aftermarket parts... Hmmmmm... Has anyone gone to the NROI and asked specifically? It specifically calls out no magwell, I know that, but it sure would be nice to have a thumb rest!!!

I have read through a large portion of this thread, and there is a lot to digest here. I just purchased an X5 a few days ago (I will have to wait another week or so to shoot her due to some hand surgery). I am looking to transition from LTD to CO over the next year or two, and this seems like a good choice. Dry firing this gun does not give me the warm and fuzzies, that is for sure. The trigger is spongy and gritty without a real clean break. I am not a fan of striker-fired triggers as a whole, but this one feels particularly bad to me. OK, I will be blunt and say that it is atrocious and is easily the worst trigger I own by a long shot. While I sit here with my hand bandaged up, I have nothing else to do but spend some money, right? So I ordered the GG competition trigger kit and their steel guide rod and a few different spring weights to try out. I wish I would have read this thread first, I would have ordered the Springer tungsten rod instead, but oh well.. The kit and the guide rod arrive next week. I also ordered a 6 MOA Romeo1 against my common sense urgings (I also ordered the protective shroud). I hope this does not prove to be a mistake, but I am not sure that I trust an aluminum mounting plate to go with the DPP or the RMR. The last thing I want are the mounting screws ripping free from the soft aluminum in the middle of a match. I also ordered the Talon grip tape, but it sounds like those might be a mistake as well. The gun feels really slippery in my hand, so if the tape does not work, I might have to go with Alma's silicone grit job or possibly a stipple job. Will someone please assure me that the trigger pull will get better with the GG kit? I am not as worried about reducing the trigger-pull down to sub 2# levels as I am about getting a nice crisp break and reset. Is that a pipedream with a striker-fired pistol? My only other striker-fired pistol is an HK VP9, and I don't like that trigger either, but it is better than the X5, which is not saying a lot. All my other guns are hammer-fired and all of them have had trigger work done, so I know my expectations are high. Someone once told me that you don't need to love the trigger during dry fire, but only in live fire. Not sure if I agree with that, but I guess I will have to wait to see how she shoots, and then what difference the GG kit makes. Fingers crossed that I made the right decision here.

Where are you guys finding the Romeo1 in 6 MOA? Backordered everywhere I look, not even available on the SIG site...

I would also recommend going Major PF (.40) if you decide to get a 2011. BUT... After two matches, it might be prudent to shoot a few more with your Glock before dropping that much cash, unless of course you are independently wealthy, and in that case, buy me another one too!!! If you do decide to buy a 2011, see if you can find a used one at a good price. They tend to hold their value, and if you buy a used gun, chances are good that you could shoot it for a couple of years and sell it for about the same amount that you bought it for in the first place. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Thanks for posting that picture, it helps a lot. So did this solve your issues shooting WHO? I am going to follow your advice and give it a go.

I must have missed your comments here on the first pass... I have that *exact* problem with weak hand shooting with my Nitro Fin. I have learned to modify my grip to avoid this, but would love to see what you have done to modify yours. A picture would be great!!! Thanks.

Another happy Nitrofin customer.

I gotta say, everything was spot on except the part about the 1911s/2011s being hard to work on! I would much rather work on a 2011 than a striker-fired gizmo any day!!! Great post, thanks for posting that!

So I just got a new 22 pistol that I want to add a red dot to start using for Steel Challenge, but I will continue to use my Limited Major gun with iron sights for USPSA. Sounds like this is going to be a problem switching back and forth (front sight focus to target focus). Does anyone else do this and find it is a problem? Also looking at the Vortex Venom. Recommendations for the 3 MOA or the 6 MOA dot? Thanks, hope this wasn't too much of a hijack!

Looks cool, but probably not my cup of tea. What???? Seriously??? I probably load 100-200 at a time. So what is the trick to loading it that full? That sounds awesome...

Thank for that. I have watched the videos and will do some adjustments to get the flipped bullets problem rectified. Thanks for the advice on the missed drops, I will take a closer look at that as well. I actually do have the Vibra-Prime, which I know is not a nice as the RF100, but it beats the heck out of hunting and pecking by hand.

So I finally got a chance to do a "real run" of 1,000 rounds today. Very nice!!! My run rate is about 800 rounds per hour at a real-life pace (I even got a phone call in the middle from my wife!). Total time to load 1,000 rounds was 1 hour and 12 minutes, but I was at 800 rounds just before the 1 hour mark. I hit 500 rounds at 36 minutes, which I just now realized is exactly at the half-way point! Ha! Didn't notice that before! First up, I loaded 10 primer tubes (1,000 primers), which took me 13 minutes and 20 seconds at my normal pace, so if you add that back into the time equation, it gets me closer to a total time of 1:25. Not bad, but not good enough honestly, plus, my shoulder was starting to squawk at about 500-600 rounds or so. I need to automate!!! Regarding the Mr. Bullet Feeder: I had 4 bullets load upside down, and 5 cases that did not get a bullet, so basically that is 9 "failures" our of 1,000, or about 1% failure. Not sure if this is normal or if I need to spend some time adjusting things a bit. I guess the better way to look at it is that I had a 99% success rate, right??? Any suggestions on how to minimize the issues? So back to the automation need... I honestly think I need to automate someday. 1:30 to get 1,000 is not bad, but like I said, my shoulder was screaming at me about half way through the 1,000 rounds and I started switching back and forth between my left hand and my right hand. For the last 100, I was holding onto the handle with both hands... hilarious! I am not sure that the 1050 is the answer. Maybe, but I think I need to bite the bullet (someday) and get the Evolution with the drive system. Turn it on and let it run (under adult supervision of course!). For now however, I have definitely increased my throughput significantly, and this was really the whole point. I am very happy overall (although a little sore in the shoulder), and I can recommend the MBF wholeheartedly. A great product and a great upgrade to my 650. Now excuse while I go dream about my new Evolution!