PatJones

I've decided to try playing with short brass. I've trimmed some remington brass to .900 and I've modified an expender die to work with the short brass. The bullets I intend to use do not have a crimp groove so I need a die that applies a taper crimp. What are you guys using? 9mm or 38 super dies? The bullets are lead, sized .358. I load single stage, so I would prefer to seat and crimp in the same die. I see there are Lee factory crip dies available. I have not been able to locate an RCBS seater die. Midway has a Hornady 9mm/38 super New Dimension bullet seater available, but Midway claims it applies a roll crimp. That sounds like it was cut/pasted from another product description, but would the .358 bullets cause me troubles?

I hate winter in the Denver Area. There's not enough snow to do winter related activities unless you drive up into the mountains, yet there's just enough snow to prevent you from doing other outdoor activities. I just want to go shooting dammit.

I saw that. Does anyone have any idea how they're going to handle the lower times from the 8-shot guns? Have the high hit factors been adjusted or do they intend to flag the abnormal looking scores? Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

I'm sure a number of shops will put them up on gun broker when they ship. Prices will probably be ridiculous on the 929's as well. Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

But it's not just revolver shooters who would be impacted. Any change to a classifier has the potential to change scores for all divisions. Well, Maybe--- WSB modification--- DIVISION SPECIFIC RULE, Revolver Division MUST reload after 6th shot regardless of revolver model. All other divisions are unaffected by this special WSB rule There are problems with that too. Because of minor scoring these people will be classified below their actual ability level, yet their extra capacity will allow them an opportunity to finish higher in the match. Limiting Revolver shooters to 6 shots before a reload is unfair to the shooter, especially on classifiers with steel. Do you limit Single Stack shooters to 8? Their extra makeup shots partially offsets the minor scoring. 19 classifiers out of 82 favor the minor guns. Only 6 of your most recent 8 are used. The whole classifiers system still favors major scoring. We need to save the classifiers we can, and reset HHF for the classifiers those that are likely to change.

The problem with having a HHF set by an 8 shot revolver is that anyone shooting a 6 shot revolver will have an artificially low HF on those stages. If you take a classifier with an 8 shot array, and have Jerry shoot it with a 6 shot, he's going to have a A-B level hit factor, even on a perfect run. I got the impression the BOD's goal was to have 6 shot major go head to head with 8 shot minor. If the goal was to have everyone shoot 8 shot revolvers then I think the plan of just setting new HHF works fine. We have a unique situation in Revolver, it is the only division where shooting minor may provide an advantage over major. That said the Major scoring will provide a real advantage on classifiers that are 6-shot neutral. A revolver shooter currently needs to make a decision at the beginning of a match: "Do I want to maximize my classification or my overall placement in the match?" You could certainly choose 6 classifiers that would favor the 8-shot guns but the majority of the classifiers favor 6-shot major scoring. Your classification is an average of the highest 6 of your most recent 8 scores. I think enough of this will average out to reinstate many of the missing classifiers.

Have any of you thought all of this through? There are a number of classifiers that have _always_ been unfair to the 6 shooters. I know we only "compete within our division" but we all look at the combined results. Part of the fun of shooting Production or any of the other restricted divisions is beating others who have more "competitive" equipment. Now that modern firearms are being introduced to Revolver division we have to deal with this. Yes, there are several ways to "fix" these classifier problems that have always existed. We could require all revolvers to reload after 6 shots on classifiers, but that would make Revolver the only division that cannot use the additional rounds in their firearm to make up misses on steel. Not all classifiers are Virginia count. The other option is to set new High Hit Factors for these classifiers. The classifiers that have required a reload after 7 can be changed to specify a reload before 8. This would not effect the HHF for the other divisions but it will change it for Revolver. This takes time. I suspect the BOD is leaning towards the second solution. Revolver nationals are coming up on May 4th, new HHFs can be set at that time. If you would all just relax I'm sure this will be sorted out in time.

+1 Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Aaaa why do all the majors I want to shoot happen at once? What other major conflicts with the Rocky Mountain Regional? Is there an official date yet? It's usually the last weekend of June. Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Does it carry up with fired cases in the cylinder?

The dents that didn't go bang are the impacts you are getting on all 8. When it does go bang the primer backs out into the firing pin enlarging the dent. When the powder lights off the cartridge sets back and pushes the primer back in. If you hook a trigger pull gauge over the hammer what weight are you getting? I hook the gauge under the lip below the flat that contacts the firing pin and pull it back gently until the front of the hammer is even with the front of the lock cut.

It does sound like it is a failure to carry up. This can be caused by several problems including wear. Check for a bent yoke before swapping parts.

While I agree with Carmony here, this is getting a bit too personal. Would any of you behave like this to each other in person?Let's get back to the topic of what you're bringing to nationals. I won't be there as that is my first wedding anniversary.

So we haven't heard anything with 3 days left before the rules change. Does this mean we're just gonna go with the classifiers the way they are?

TGO, have you played with 38 special cut to .900?

What gear do you have right now? The spring steel 45 moonclsupportlders from California competition works will work with the 8-shot moons, but you hang them off the front of the holder with just a couple rounds inside. I wouldn't buy them, but if you already have them.... I choose the double alpha holster due to the lack of muzzle support. I like my crown. The muzzle supports are generally made from a soft material, but as dirt and dust are slowly ground into the plastic you now have sandpaper. This is how you make a lap. Remington and federal brass are usually your best options a they have the thickest groove. This allows for thicker moonclips.

Two guys thinking about starting is "tangible positive movement"? I was cornered at the match this weekend by someone I've never seen with a revolver. He wanted to know if my shop could get him a 929 so he can shoot revo division.

Flexmoney, when would the BOD make their decision on the classifiers.

It'd much like Production: "maximum 10 rounds loaded in any magazine" So even though your box-stock Master Blaster XTQ holds 15 or 17 or 19, you can only load 10 to compete in Production division. Its an artificial restriction to level the playing field so everyone who shoots has an equal chance at least as far as the number of rounds. But for revolvers, its only for the Classifiers. The 8 shooter revolvers still get to load 8 for the other stages. Or only fire 6. Either way. Classifiers -- revolvers load 6. Then nothing that is happening now has to change. Every other person who plays this game can continue doing so without interruption. We don't have to discard any Classfiers. Its easy. I think expecting someone to click through 2 empty chambers after the reload is a bit unreasonable.

Over half of the current classifiers are 6 reload 6. A major gun will have an advantage on these. That's ok. If we set new HHF on the others, an 8-shot will have an advantage there. If it turns out to be a _really_ big disadvantage shooting 6, it will be flagged and not used to calculate your classification anyway. I don't think they will go that way though, so let's discuss the other 2 options. If we delete all the >6 shot classifiers, the other divisions have fewer classifiers to shoot. I did hear an open shooter last summer say that he felt all classifiers should be 6 reload 6 so maybe they won't mind. If we restrict all revolvers to 6 before a reload on the classifier, what is the punishment for a brain fart? We've all clicked on an empty, do we bump them to open? That hardly seems fair. We certainly couldn't submit an oops to national for use, but is there an additional penalty? If there is no bump to open, how does the match director know from the score sheets that a mistake was made?

I've thought about shooting classic occasionally. Are round nose bullets as important as it is with moons? I've not found a true round nose bullet in .44.

We have an interesting situation in revolver now. For many of us it will be easier to break the stages down with an 8-shooter, and this will give us an advantage in the match. If we limit the classifiers to 6 reload 6, the 6-shooter with major scoring will have a real advantage. All of this is fine, but you may find yourself making a decision as to whether you want to finish higher in the overall or increase your classification. I do shoot a 627, but it would be my inclination to leave most of the classifiers alone but set the high hit factor appropriately. You could certainly cherry pick 6 classifiers that favor the 8-shooters but the same is true of the major scoring 6-shooters.

I'm shooting the Rocky Mountain 300 and the ICORE Rocky Mountain Regional. I would also like to hit one out of state match, anyone want to carpool out of Colorado?

Alex, there is a drawing in there showing where the seat should point in relation to the hand pivot. I would compare that to your gun before you start work. You may need to do a little of each, let out and shorten. Was your trigger cam modified prior to installation of the new sear? I only polish them and break the edge with a white Arkansas stone. If it was shortened to correct stubbing on the previous sear you may need a new trigger.

My initial thought is that out could be let out a bit. There is a nice picture of how much to let the sear out to in the Kuhnhausen book. Mine is at work, maybe someone else can post that for you don't have a copy. Looking at your pictures the cam surface on the trigger looks like it slopes back a lot. Has this been altered?