michael1778

*that* is what I'm talking about!! There is a whole bunch of "win" happening in that photo.

JP LMOS isn't too silly in low weight. I think it's worth getting. Then, just put in a normal bolt that is properly head spaced for your barrel. Triggers are *so* personal. But, I'm switching from an AR Gold to a single stage CMC flat trigger. I think the resulting position will be excellent. A full, deep grip with the slightly forward flat trigger should do the trick. I think the AR Gold may end up in a future precision rifle. The CMC flat is not expensive. That should reduce financial risk. But, triggers are very personal.

Build your own lower receiver assembly and have a good shop do a competition upper, perhaps? Carbon Arms would be one route to go for a great upper. I have one in 16" and it's a heck of a shooter. Proven sub-MOA before it was shipped to me. It held up that performance even with me behind the trigger! I haven't played around with buffer weights, yet. Couldn't give any feedback on that. I simply inserted the JP SCS and went off to the range. I guess I could optimize it somehow, but no interest in that just yet. If you replace the barrel, gas block, stock, hand guard, grip, muzzle device, buffer, buffer spring and bolt carrier you would not have much of the original rifle left. Just the receiver set, upper parts kit, lower parts kit, and the buffer tube (receiver extension) would be left. Oh if you to the ACE stock then you have to change the buffer tube also.....so just the receiver set and the two parts kits. M&P15 Sport is what, about $600? Hmm, that's an expensive assembled receiver set. I would encourage your friend to recheck his financial assessment.

I'm 6' 1" with above average arm length. I can relate completely! And I really don't like getting blasted by my compensator. Oh, don't forget to look at the length of pull (LOP) for your stock set-up. You may feel cramped in some situations. I don't have enough experience to give definitive guidance, but I do know that some stocks feel awkward. I think they are too short for me. Are your hands large too? You may need a larger grip like an Ergo Tactical Deluxe, some of the Magpul grips with changeable back straps, or a forward-set flat-faced trigger. Maybe even a combination of all three. Personally, I run an Ergo Tactical grip and am about to change to a CMC flat trigger to get it out just a bit more for finger placement. Should put it right on my trigger finger pad Given that I once bought an M&P15 Sport and then modded it up, I thin you are on a better track by a more custom build up front. It really isn't that much more expensive than a base gun and modding it up, in my opinion and experience. With regards to the cooling aspect of fluting, for this game, I'd recommend you not give that much significance in your decision. Weight reduction? Sure thing. Plenty of people with deep engineering backgrounds as well as shooting experience will say generally the same thing on here. They may be along as time goes by to comment. Perhaps the JP Thermal Dissipator would give more cooling. I tend to buy the engineering description as well as some personal feedback I've received form users. But, I still think that is marginal and chasing insignificant improvements in most situations. So, either an intermediate length gas system (Stretch 16 barrel) or any number of rifle length gas barrels (Nordic, JP, Black Hole Weaponry, and the list goes on) 18" and above. Please remember that accuracy is not a function of barrel length; however, velocity is. Faster bullets don't have as much time to be deflected by wind over very long ranges. That isn't accuracy. That's "wind resistance" giving less dispersion under variable wind conditions. On my 18" barrel I use an adjustable gas block. My Bolt Carrier is a JP LMOS with QPQ finish. I use a 'stock out of the box' JP Silent Captured Spring system. I hate the rasp of more common buffer springs. I splurged and bought the expensive JP Enhanced Bot to go into the JP LMOS carrier. That was a spendy thing for me to do. Look at hand guards longer than 15" if you get an 18" barrel. With those long arms you may like that ability to reach out. 15" is about minimum for me, so I suspect you might like something 16.5" or 17". You'll have to be the judge on that one. I hope this is helpful for you. All the best wishes in your build.

Jordan, what is your particular motivation for a fluted barrel? I'm considering making a lighter weight 16" upper for competition, so in my particular case, I'm looking for modest weight savings. I'm starting with a 16" barrel as a baseline for the design. My 18" Criterion hybrid contour barrel is fine, but I want to change the balance and total weight of my rifle. The fluted versions of the Stretch 16 look like the best balance for recoil management (through gas system length) and weight. So, why a fluted barrel for your intended use?

The purple fringing around so many tree branches, the top of the Stop sign, the top of the road name sign, and over on the power line tower look like evidence of chromatic aberration. Is that in the scope when you look at it or is that an artifact of this particular camera used?

I'm partial to the Vortex Viper PST 1-4x, of that group. In particular the version with the capped turrets, not the "tactical" ones.

Thanks for closing the loop on this. Very nice looking upper!

How did you know that I needed a good laugh just now? Perfect. To the matter at hand, I am leaning toward a fluted Stretch 16 for my own planned Open/Unlimited rifle build. No consideration to cooling or any of that jazz, just a pure weight reduction play. I want something significantly lighter, if I can design it. My current 18" rifle isn't "heavy" by most standards.

Certainly, the mid-length gas on the 18" barrel would feel harder than the rifle length gas system on the same length (fixed gas block). Assuming similar size gas ports (huge assumption!), the initial port pressure will be larger/higher (propellant hasn't expanded as much so gas pressure larger) and overall dwell time will be longer in the 18" mid-length gas system (port to muzzle distance is longer in the mid-length gas system on equivalent length barrels). So, there is the basic mechanics of the systems comparison. The adjustable gas block can reduce the volume of gas flow for the operating system (by restricting the functional gas port size), but it won't change the pressure or dwell times. In the end we get down to perceptions. What does it "feel like" to the operator? Many different factors come into play. If we do a mechanical measurement (non-human), then no I don't think you are likely to get the measured total recoil impulse to be less than the rifle length system on the same barrel; close perhaps. However, could you get close enough to be imperceptible by the operator? That could be. To be clear, I'm comparing to a fixed gas block 18" rifle system for comparison. Others with more experience may come along to enhance our conversation, but the fundamental mechanics are reasonably well defined and point toward a general answer.

I agree!! I did this with my S&W M&P15 Sport (of all things). Fortunately, unlike the M&P pistols, that rifle trigger was smooth but heavy. Fairly crisp break, too. So, in my case using JP springs was an easy & cheap trigger upgrade.

Just looked at the Stretch 16, price is not bad considering it includes the gas block and tube. Agreed, in principle. It's a reasonable package deal. However, recent comments here (BE forum) in other threads have pointed to only moderate satisfaction with the provided gas block, so I'm not sure how to assign value to it. Even with that, I'm personally considering buying such a barrel. I'm strongly leaning that way because I'm fed up with the weight distribution of my current configuration. I may opt for a Stretch 16 purchase with only the gas tube accessory.

The Nordic 18" is $269 from the web site. That's cheaper than the Stretch 16 by a good margin. [side note for biases: I have a 16" Nordic from 3 years ago that is a sweet shooter, so I'm a bit of a fan. However, I may be building a new 16" upper using the Stretch 16 once it comes back in stock]] I've seen some great builds and watched good shooters with the Nordic 18" barrel. Once recent build is here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=204061 I encourage you to read the whole thread as well as enjoy the final and modified build photos embedded. From my understanding, you can even save a little money on the total build with a Nordic since it is a soft shooter with a fixed gas block. Saves you a few bucks on an adjustable block.

Helpful, real-world data. Thank you.

How much does that 15" weigh with everything it needs (barrel nut, etc)? I haven't found a weight measurement quote by Armalite or Joe Bob. Thanks!

My misuderstanding. I got thrown by the use of "under". Reading too fast. Sorry

A single or dual lever Bobro should nail it. Others will also, but you're already leaning that way. Single lever will save you a small amount of weight.

I've never seen an 18" barrel rifle gas system be a failure root cause. These widespread gas systems (e.g., rifle length on 18", midlength on 16") have been kicked around and optimized by how many thousands of users? With great respect and friendship, don't bother with skepticism about them. You would be wasting time and intellectual effort. You want rifle gas on an 18" barrel? Great. Fuss with profile, rifling style, or something else. The widely used barrels mentioned by members here will work well.

From what I remember, PCR is new to the 3 Gun Nation club rule set. I have only be considering a 9mm AR if I decide to go for Trooper division at MGM Iron man for 2016, or later. I'm leaning toward a JP GMR-13 of some type, in that case. Perhaps a 10.5" barrel SBR variant of the GMR-13.

Given the length of my arms, etc. I suspect the A2 length version might be more my taste. I think there was a longer version on the web site. Thanks. Your rifle is a beauty, no doubt. I think I'll do a new 16" upper as a first step on the Rifle Diet plan. However, the barrel would actually have to be in stock. Oh well.

Thank you for the update. How did you know I was sitting at my computer doing a major redesign of my competition rifle? Did you know I was thinking about some ideas from yours? And how did you know I was considering that same Lancer stock? Get out of my head! Why the stock change? Still a fine looking build. I'm putting my rifle on a serious diet.

I use a Weaver offset rail. No ugly knob like I've seen on some. compact and tightens down with an Allen wrench. It was very inexpensive but seems to be rock solid. FF3 hasn't budged in about 2+ years, I think.

Take it easy, yer making us look bad. That rifle work was so fast and flat. How? What ammo are you using these days? So well done and the rifle looked exceptionally well balanced. <sigh> When I grow up, I want to be that good!!

I have the Lucas Contact Cleaner, also. For light use to break in and test new triggers on my new competition pistol and my M&P Shield carry gun, the contact cleaner was total overkill. Really only needed a cloth wipe down and a light plastic brush on the feed ramps. Looking forward to a match soon to give it a run on all my Open/Unlimited guns.

The 24" SuperNova is my one and only pump gun. I don't need another because it is so awesome. So, file that away when you get a pump action shotgun.