Philo_Beddoe

The firing pin that came in my shadow target was 2.501 inch/63.52mm, in my shadow custom was 2.466 inch/62.64mm, and the extended firing pin from CGW kit was 2.5025 inch/63.56mm. I would assume that the 2.466 that came in my shadow custom was standard and the other two were extended, although the are quite a bit more extended then yours. I wonder if they have been lenghening their extended firing pins? maybe so, or maybe we are on either end of the tolerances. I may have to order a couple more. My Shadow target was 2.501 which is only a 0.002 off of Lee G's. One thing I noticed is that the 2.466 firing pin that came from the shadow custom had a flat side machined on the barrel of the firing pin that was not present on the longer firing pins. It appears you can see this from the close ups on cz customs website. regular extended

The firing pin that came in my shadow target was 2.501 inch/63.52mm, in my shadow custom was 2.466 inch/62.64mm, and the extended firing pin from CGW kit was 2.5025 inch/63.56mm. I would assume that the 2.466 that came in my shadow custom was standard and the other two were extended, although the are quite a bit more extended then yours. I wonder if they have been lenghening their extended firing pins?

I fired a box 50 through both my lubricated shadows and got 4 stove pipe failures. The stuff was not ejecting nearly as forcefully as the WWB 115gr and my 133 power factor 124 gr jhp reloads. I am also running the stock spring for the custom shadow (I think its 11 lbs) . I dont have a chrono but the PMC seems really underpowered

Shadows, either 75 or SP-01 variety, are legal for USPSA production. Both guns have the same slide and fire control group and neither came with a firing pin block safety from the factory. What would be illegal is to take a regular non shadow 75b or SP-01 and remove the firing pin block safety.

Triggers are about the same factory except M&P has a really weak reset compared to glock. Apex makes kits for both the pre travel and weight, I dont think the pre travel kit is legal for production however.

I have a custom shadow and sold my M&P pro with the apex comp trigger kit. The shadow was simply more accurate, noticably so. Remember in production every thing is scored minor, in production a C hit loses 40%, D hit is 80%, in the other divisions shooting major its only 20% for a C and 60% for a D. Simply put, shooting A's matters alot more in production for your hit factor. If I were you I would buy the 75 shadow, not the SP-01 shadow, if you are going to shoot in IPDA simply because of the weight limit in ipda. I have shot both and the SP-01 does have less muzzle flip, but transitions slower, but both will have alot less flip then their polymer counterparts, although the M&P is comfortable to shoot. I have a shadow target and I do prefer its adjustable sights to the Dawsons adj I had on the m&p. If you have trouble with the heavy first pull ( I only really notice it on the classifer with a weak hand first shot), you can always buy Cajun gun works ultra lite double action kit and run federal primers. http://www.cajungunworks.com/ultra-lite.html Another consideration is how comfortable are you lowering the hammer manually to make ready? Some people are just not good at this procedure. Never botherd me, but I have seen some people get all nervous about it. Of course I was raised on guns with hammers so I am used to them.

If it is a CZ that has a manual safety, as the shadow does, then the hammer has to be all the way down. If it is a CZ model that has a decocker, then the half cock notch as that is where the decocking mechanism puts the hammer. Source: Area 5 range master Troy McMannus, emails conversation with John Amidon, and supplemental rulings on the USPSA webpage.

If the take up screw is installed, I doubt that would be a legal mod for IPDA. If the DA is a prob just run it in ESP.

You could shoot it in L-10 and be competative.

What production division approved handguns have .22 LR converstion kits or .22 LR copy pistols that approximately mimic the size and feel of their centerfire big brothers. Ones I can think of off the top of my head are: CZ kit Sig kit M&P 22 Glock kits EAA kits.

So the only modification that is legal for the produciton division is the changes to the disconnector, correct? actually there are lots of mods you can do..but they can't be visible from outside the gun. On the ERRK and the SRRK the pretravel screw is visible and there is no stock part in a CZ gun that has a double action trigger with a pre-travel screw. The disconnector cut(s) to reduce the stroke is a viable option. I was only referring specifically to the mods on the errk and srrk kit, so the disconnector cuts and new trigger return spring are the only legal mods in this kit? Thanks

So the only modification that is legal for the produciton division is the changes to the disconnector, correct?

Does any of this require the use of only federal primers? I talked to CZ custom about lightening the pull on my shadow custom and they said that doing so would only allow one to run federal primers. Also what about function with a kadet kit, assuming a 17 lb hammer spring is being run?

to me the long DA first shot is jut part of the draw, everything else is sa

I handled one this weekend, I was impressed with the sights, looks to be a great out of the box production gun.

That is bascially what I have been doing, some dry fire drills show this to be faster then pulling a 8-9lb long DA weak hand first shot. Draw and cock hammer with strong hand, transfer to weak, just make sure the finger stay out of guard. How many of you advocating a long 8-9lb DA first shot with the weak hand actually run a prod gun that has a long 8-9lb DA first shot? Freestyle and with strong hand only it does not bother me a bit.

I am interested but it sounds like its a bit more advanced then my present skill level. I just made "B" and my current % is only 59.56

Get a 1911 and shoot it in single stack or L10. You might try and M&P with the small grip insert. Known alot of women with small hands who can shoot those well.

I shoot a CZ Shadow in the USPSA production division, I recently did this classifier: http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/99-46.pdf On string 3 it says: String 3. Upon start signal, transfer gun to weak hand and from Box C engage T1-T3 with only two rounds per target using weak hand only The D/A pull on my shadow is rougly 8 lbs and I stuggle getting an accurate first shot off with that heavy pull from weak hand only, S/A shots are no problem. Is it legal to just cock the hammer with your thumb for the first shot in the production divison? I could not find any rules that forbid it. Thanks

I have owned 3 CZ's with the extended mag release (2 current shadows and had a 75b equiped with one), if you slam the mag release hard the other side will actually catch the mag and cause it to get hung up, especially if the rounds have walked forward a bit. Not slamming the mag release and the 10% mag springs bascially cured the problem. Unload the gun or take off the slide and push the button hard you will see what I am talking about.

I would say yes if you are running the 20lb factory main spring, which I do on my kadet kit, but otherwise its only a slight advantage.

I dont think the decocker models have any additional safeties, why CZ designed the decocker to stop at half cock I do not know. I would assume to have the hammer off the firing pin. Also I do not think you can simply throw on a shadow slide on a SP01 frame. The sp01 frame has the lifter that operates the firing pin block. http://czcustom.com/shadow9mmtopend.aspx

Be careful what you ask for. You might just get the Shadow removed from the production list. The rules for USPSA production were around before CZ decided to remove the firing pin block. If having the hammer in the fully decocked position is unsafe, they should have installed a de-cocker on the gun. Considering the gun is loaded in the holster for about 10 seconds per stage, and most of that time is spent standing still, I'm not too worried about the chance of an AD because the hammer is fully decocked. I agree, pushing this isn't really necessary and could just make the situation worse on Shadow owners, I don't think any of us really care about whether or not the first shot happens from all the way down vs. half-cock enough to cause a fuss. If you're not comfortable with starting by manually decocking to hammer all the way down CZ makes many guns with decockers and there's lots of other platforms to run. Besides, your 75B has a FPB, so as long as you let go of the trigger before you set the hammer down you've got nothing to worry about. 1) I sold the 75b and now run a shadow. 2) You have to continually press the trigger to lower the hammer past the half cock notch which means you pretty much have to press the trigger until the hammer rest on the firing pin. 3) Almost all open, single stack, and limited guns lack a firing pin safety block. The CZ shadow is a safe gun it is even more safe when USPSA does not force silly rules on its operation. 4) The orginal non B version of the CZ 75 did not have a firing pin block either and has always been on the approved production list. The 85 combat has no FPB either. JMHO USPSA isn't forcing anything on you. You have choices. To shoot the gun in other divisions, or to pick a different gun of the lengthy list, or to comply with the rules.... Correct, USPSA is not forcing anything on me, however, do you not think that a division specifically created to give double and safe action handguns a place to be competitive should at least take into consideration the safety advice of manufacturers of said division approved handguns when it comes to creating the rules that govern the safety of the sport? In my OPINION, if a production approved handgun is designed to be decocked to the firing pin, half cock, or both then rules should take that into account and any other safety consideration from other manufacturers of handguns on the approved list. This is why I believe we got the ruling we did on the decocker models. Once again I am just stating my opinion. Also there is no doubt manufacturer recommendations have influenced USPSA rules. The rule prohibiting a cocked single action pistol from being holstered without the manual safety being applied is by no doubt influenced by the operating instructions of said pistols by the manufacturers. I dont think USPSA did a comparative study and had a number of shooters holster their cocked 1911s without the safety on to reach the conclusion that allowing competitors to do so would be a bad idea, manufacturer warnings and common sense were probably enough.

There is an NROI ruling that says on decocker equipped guns, wherever the decocker leaves the hammer satisfies the term "fully decocked". I understand but that doesn't answer why it matters what X manufacturer thinks. either it has a d/c and you d/c it or you lower it manually. just do it or shoot another gun if you're not comfortable complying with the rules. USPSA rules are written to make the sport as safe as possible, that means tailoring the rules to how manufactuers design their handguns. Do you think a rule requiring deocking the hammer would make much sense in the single stack divison? The Revolver, single stack,and production divison were basically created to cater to the popularity of certain handguns (glock > production, 1911 > single stack, revolvers) with the shooting public. The rules in those divison are tailored to those style of handguns. Heck even Voigt himself says so in this video at 2:15

How is that true? Load the pistol. Grasp the grip, POINT IN A SAFE DIRECTION. With thumb press on the grooved area (thumb piece) of the hammer, pull the trigger and release the hammer slowly ahead (Fig. 6) until it rests on the action or safety thumb of the hammer. Release the trigger. http://www.czub.cz/zbrojovka/cz-manual/Instruction-Manual-CZ-75-SP-01.pdf "rests on the action" is most likely the firing pin "safety thumb of the hammer" is most likly poorly translated "safety notch of the hammer" Also, if the gun was not meant to be decocked to half cock, why do all the models equipped to decockers do that very thing?