photoracer

I brought an engineering mind to shooting. Everything can be analyzed, as long as you stop when the buzzer goes off. Sent from my XT1064 using Tapatalk

That was what I was doing about 4 years ago when ramping up my shooting. I found I could do the first shot in .8 without a miss every time and could do .6 but with a miss in about one of three. Now if I roll back the timer on some runs I find in extreme cases I have done .38 first shots, likely from anticipating the buzzer, but normally around .55-.6. When you compare that to watching Max do .7 from the surrender position on a draw it tells me that there is always room for improvement (my draw time is more physically limited than my low ready time). Human reflex time runs around a .2 peak or a little slower in general (mine was tested at .172 at LASL in 1965 and only one person tested faster up to that time). But as some top shooters have said you want to try to get that first shot off before the buzzer stops on a low ready (that is the goal anyway). Assuming a 1s buzzer that is doable (if shorter maybe not). Its exactly like drag-racing. In a match you want to make sure you don't miss that first shot so you should shoot a hair slower. Sometimes I try to detect if the RO is doing a consistent cadence before he presses the button so when I get to a stage I sometimes mentally time what he does with the other shooters, like when the 1B coach in baseball times the pitcher's move to the plate to see if there is enough to give his runner a jump to steal a base. So I was taught to find your 100% hit time then practice going faster until you can get a faster 100% time. Its very incremental, measured in improvements in hundredths of a second or more at best. That also means working on the physical aspects like arm strength and speed, eye speed, and eliminating anything that can slow you down. Theoretically holding gun closer should make your time a little faster as it has less distance to travel (and I think your arms can get better leverage slightly cocked as opposed to straight out)

You should not be waiting for the sight to get into the center of the target (as Max pointed out in his class). You should break the shot as soon as the dot movement puts it completely inside the boundaries of the plate you are shooting at (your iron sight results may vary but the principle is the same). If your shots are grouping (except the first shot but even that breaks the same way) you are costing yourself time.

I use the laydown mount. I made my own first mount back in early 2009 when I had a local gunsmith start building me an STI with the CCC 90 degree mount. I wanted to shoot that setup before I got my open gun to see if I even liked it, and I did. Tried going back to straight up a couple of times since but can't shoot a pistol that way anymore. With a mini red dot its not needed since the window is pretty low anyway.

I have used my Dan Wesson 9mm Bobtail Commander in Single Stack in SC before. Only thing I did was to buy 5 Metalform 10 rd. mags. I use my Glock 34 with an iron sight configured slide and Dawson FO sights in Limited. Same extended mags as my G34 open setup and the same 10 in the mags in both setups.

The fastest guy I ever saw (in this case I know him because he shot at my club on occasion against me) with a rimfire type 22 is Brian Shanholtz, and he used a 15-22 exclusively to win the PSA Rimfire Challenge rifle title multiple times in spite of some pretty good shooters with lightweight AR-22s and 10/22s. If you don't know him he won the Amateur division of the 2015 NRA World Shooting Championship, got a sponsorship deal from Vortex, and in 2016 he finished in 10th in the Pro division one point behind Jerry Miculek and ahead of serious 3-gunner like Tommy Thacker (Greg Jordan took the title). So nothing says you can't shoot a 15-22 really fast, its just you have to be really good to make up for a few things. My fastest run in S&H was done with the 10/22 at 1.75s earlier this spring.

The fastest guys in RFRO use 10/22s and I mean specifically Ron Oliver, John Nagel and Kolby Pavlock. And even though in earlier days BJ Norris who won the Ruger title first with an AR (2010), switch to a 10/22 later when he won in 2014 . What Tom E is using on a 15-22 is what I used from 2010-2014 in Ruger and Steel Challenge. Same everything as him except I used the S3G instead of the SD3G trigger from Geissele. My favored stock was the Magpul Fixed Carbine, which required you to cut a notch in the 15-22 buffer tube for the crossbolt when you found where you liked the LOP. My 15-22 on my scales weighed in at 4 lbs.14 oz. After I won a VQ Ultralite CF 10/22 barrel I built a race 10/22. I got that down to 3 lbs. 6 oz. I actually built a Taccom AR-22 that I got down to 3 lbs. even but after a problem with the people at Taccom I have never shot it in competition. My current 10/22 RFRI rifle weighs less than 3 lbs. I am guessing with no comp and no C-More on it in a Blackhawk Axiom stock without any cheek risers. I also moded both of my Axiom stocks to mount the same Magpul stock I had on the 15-22 (except the plastic buffer tube of the Axiom is Commercial and not Mil-spec). Even though the Axiom makes my RFRO 10/22 lighter I prefer the ergonomics of the Magnum Research GC stock as the cheek weld is perfect for a C-More mounted on an Allchin mount, whereas when I switch to the Axiom I have to use the 3/4" Magpul riser.

Best to go for a C-More with at least an 8 MOA dot and maybe larger. If you like the small sights, short of a Trijicon RMR, I suggest the Burris FastFire3, the 8 MOA version.

I have an RMR on the G34 I got for 3-gun. It came used with a 3.25 illuminated dot which I did not like. After it malfunctioned I tried a 6.5 dot one. Then I looked thru a dual illuminated one on a friend's gun and while it was a little dimmer (no battery model) I liked the size so waited till I found a dealer with the one that had the dual illuminated 9 MOA green dot and bought that one. I shoot that setup in SC and USPSA all steel matches. Shot that when I did Max's class instead of my STI. Sent from my XT1064 using Tapatalk

Yeah but the shoulder should be rolling forward while you are doing other parts of the draw. I used to shoot an STI in Open. I got my drawing skills from Robby Orent a former student of Todd Jarrett. I had my shoulder aligned so all I had to do was drop my forearm to put it on the grip and I had the gun almost vertical to my body. Later I canted it forward a small amount. Earlier this year went to a 3 day class on Steel Challenge with Max. I was using my Glock 34 3-gun Unlimited division pistol in a ghost type holster, as I have been shooting it in SC a few times. The only thing he did was have me rotate my shoulder back a little more and I think it helped some, especially with the Glock. I never get tired of watching him do .7s first shot draws. Its just a matter of repetition. That's why even the top pros do practice every day.

I never put more than 10 in the mag regardless of which division of SC I am shooting. I use 5 mags (plus a spare) full of 10 for everything, including Single Stack and Limited, rifles, carbines, you name it. Max's Open gun is a single stack Sig frame with a custom slide so he doesn't use a lot of rounds in the gun either. My rational is that I want the gun to weigh the same when I start every run. If I started with a big stick mag the gun would get lighter the more I shot until it would be considerably lighter when the mag was almost empty. That effects the recoil and the entire weight so transitions might be slower at the start when its heavy compared to when its light. I do this even with rimfire rifles and pistol caliber carbines when shooting Steel Challenge (I don't do it in USPSA). I never run out of bullets. A few times the 10th round might be the last one I shoot in a run. Of course if you miss a lot feel free to do whatever you want.

Maybe at it does require more running that regular 3-gun. However some of the good shooters I know that have shot their matches say they ignore some safety issues that other organizations would not tolerate. Sent from my XT1064 using Tapatalk

Hated one choice also. Currently my open pistol is a FrankenRuger. VQ alloy MK III lower receiver mated to a TacSol Pac-Lite upper, Bear Cave 90 degree mount, C-More w/16 MOA dot, Allchin comp, and Hogue G-10 grips. Only Ruger part is the bolt because I don't like the VQ bolt's pinball type racker, Majestic Arms racker, TK titanium firing pin, 7 mags w/ TK extended basepads (11 rounds) and Arredondo thumbrest.

I figured either Pendulum or 5 to Go, mainly because they are the ones that give the most trouble. I had the equipment to set one stage up at the farm behind my house and chose Pendulum. I had about 18 yards to the corn field so that gave me a perfect fit by putting down a shooting box about 6 feet from the corner of the house. The shooting angles are closed in enough so that it does not cause a wide dispersion pattern. 5 to Go requires a very wide angle of shooting from side to side and it would lead me to change all the orientations to keep shots from the LH plate from going in the direction of one of the fields that usually has cattle in it. I could have done Roundabout or Showdown but I find I can shoot those in the 8's already with all my low ready firearms so I wanted to shoot a stage that I still can't get under 10s in. I know shooting Pendulum helped because at the Spring classifier at Guthsvillle I had a match win in it. YRMV

Second entry for Limited. Thanks. Sent from my XT1064 using Tapatalk

Well since I can't get the PDF entry form to open either from my smartphone or my PC I plan on going to Practiscore and adding an entry for me adding my middle initial for Limited. Any problem doing this Mark?

Or you buy the TacSol open sight barrel that already has a big FO sight on the front. I though I would not like the FO front only setup compared to my usual Williams setup F & R on my pistols but its growing on me. I also have the Ruger tapered steel carbine barrel that has Firesights front and rear. But the distance between the sights and the resulting difference in FO size between them does not translate as well as it does for pistol. I think to make it work well on a rifle the front tube has to be larger so that when you look down the barrel the tubes look the same size visually.

That was probably the Nightforce Precision Tactical 2-Rifle match at the NRA Whittington Center near Raton, NM. 2 man teams going all over the terrain of Northern New Mexico's Whittington Center. They also have the Rocky Mountain 3-gun and the 24 Hour Sniper Challenge at that place. All except the RM3G involve natural terrain shooting at all stages, some at night.

If you want multi-gun run and gun plus real running what you want is the Ironman 3-gun although I don't know the actual amount of running that will be done. The Ironman East 3-gun is the first weekend in Oct. at PNTC near Inwood, WV. Also US Carbine Assoc. 2-gun matches do more running that most 3-gun matches. They hold club matches of that at PNTC monthly also. Not sure if that is what you are looking for.

Just because a firearm comes with a comp does not mean its legal to use it in a Limited type class. If that was the case my old Sig P229 Sport with the factory comp on the end from 2009 should have been able to shoot Limited as it only came with iron sights. I mean after all it was a factory gun and all. Not. JP comes with the comp because they expect you to put an optic on it not that it should be shot with the iron sights it may come with. I use the JP comp on my custom PCC myself. Does make some difference in my perception. I would vote for allowing mil-spec bird-cage flash hiders on all rifles in SC. But no allowance for any other type.

Stocks are a very personal thing. Either you like thumbholes or tactical stocks or you don't. I personally like the Magnum Research GC Thumbhole as it is super lightweight and the dimensions are smaller than say the TS Vantage or Yukon Extreme type of laminate thumbholes. I have 2 10/22 speed rifles one for Open and one For Limited. The Open one has that VQ Ultralite barrel I won and I love it. I switched from a Timney trigger to a Kidd 2 lb. single stage when I started playing with the Axiom stock and have kept that on it. Allchin mount on Ruger receiver for my C-More. VQ barrel came with the steel Forward Blow comp but lately I have been playing with one of the big double side port alloy comps from John Allchin to see if there is any difference in swing speed. BJ likes to have a steel comp on the end of his rifle for the balance, and last I saw him he was using the TS 1911-22 steel comp they make for the 1911 conversion kits. I tried that because I had one in my parts but did not notice any practical difference. Seems to make more different on a pistol.

I came to similar conclusions when I decided to do PCC. Once SC started allowing the division and adding the local USPSA steel and outlaw steel matches it became a no brainer. I looked at the entire span of pricing and performance in 9mm carbines and decided #1 that it had to use Glock mags because I have a G34 and G17, #2 I wanted something good enough to shoot SC in so I felt that most of the cheaper solutions may or may not have the reliability I wanted, and #3 I could not afford a Sig, HK, or even a JP. So I decided to use my own AR assembly skills to build one myself. I knew what I wanted it to do and what kind of look I wanted to achieve and I think I hit that on the head. 2 SC events and I made Master in PCCO, coming up fast on GM. I used my RFRO skills modified for the heavier PCC and now they are both less than 2% apart. And I get a lot of fun out of shooting non-SC events with it also. So much so that I am neglecting my pistol shooting even more. With PNTC in the SC fold and doing monthly 8-stage matches starting in November I plan in 2017 to rotate my firearms so I can get classified in every division in SC.

That is one reason why I listened to my buddy Mike S and went to the big dots he has been using for years. Robby Orent told me many years ago he just used 8 MOA and turned it up to max. I tried that and did not like the flared out dot it created. I prefer the dot has clean edges. For some events I turn the power down till the dot is just past bright and almost transparent. But for steel I turn it up high but not to the flaring point. For one thing if you have any astigmatism a larger dot will be much rounder than a smaller dot so getting off center is not as much of a problem due to seeing a misshapen dot using a smaller one. Also in stages like S&H where you often point shoot most of the plates the bigger dot is still visible in your brain as you pass over the plates so you know where it is in relation to where your barrel is pointing. Also a known optical eye phenomenon is a bigger dot looks to your brain like it is wiggling less than a small one.

Heck, I might be shooting all 4 days with that schedule.

I like 2-4 MOA for accuracy. I used to use 6-8 MOA for speed until another shooter turned me on to using 12-16 MOA for speed and now that is all I use for steel shooting.