RegRob Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) Dear comrades, Half a year ago I decided to put aside my beloved Glock 35, which has given me three top ten positions in our nationals in my country (IPSC standard), and try a 1911/2011, by purchasing an STI Eagle. I have since become well acquainted with my new friends, the Rubber Mallet, the Metal File and the Pliers. While the gun itself fits me fine and performes well, the magazines have become an unlimited source of frustration, so much that i had to swap back to Glock for a while. I have tried everything from STI, Rescomp, SPS and Grams, in all kinds of combinations. Not even the original STI mag, with its original parts, works very well. On this board there are much advice about specific mags and producers, but I have come to realize that I need to move beyond that, and understand the very physics of the 2011-mag. I need to learn the Art of Mag Tuning. Remember, I'm used to just buy a mag and start shooting. For instance, I don't understand why a Grams follower and spring give instant nose-dives in a STI mag, but not in a Rescom-mag, while in the Rescomp mag, they make the slide lock back on the last round. I don't understand why SPS, Rescomp and Grams can advertise 18 rounds capacity, when it is evidently impossible to load more than 17. Why does one magazine work well, while another is unreliable, when they are seemingly identical? I know so far that, depending on the producer, I must file the magazine notch, file the mag pads to fit the mag well, adjust the mag body to be able to drop free, file the follower, adjust the feed lips to 9,65mm. etc. etc. Do you guys have any advice on how to move forward? I have heard that there are "how to tune your mag" videos and kits available? All help is appreciated. Regards, Rob. Edited February 25, 2009 by RegRob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Greetings Rob! We all feel your pain - even if most are too proud to admit it. You wrote: "I know that, depending on the producer, I must file the magazine notch, file the mag pads to fit the mag well, knock the mag body to drop free, file the follower, adjust the feed lips to 9,65mm. etc. etc." It does not make sense, does it? It also makes little sense that you can pay a retail price of $1600 to $1800 US for a stock Edge 5.0 - and no one is surprised that it won't run reliably - until you pay a custom gunsmith to "fix" a product that was supposed to run reliably right fromt he start (and probably have to pay a mag tuner too). You also wrote: "Remember, I'm used to just buy a mag and start shooting. " Amazing, isn't it? Imagine- a gun that actually functions reliably - right from the factory! True, STI is one of the MAJOR sponsors of out sport (and so is Glock). I thank STI for that. But, as one who owns, has owned, has tuned & built, and shoots STI & SV guns, it often makes me wonder why we put up with the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapzter Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Rob, The slide lockback is easily fixed. Just remove material from the follower. Bob Londrigan has an excellent article about that: http://www.brazoscustom.com/magart/0505.htm I use K-mag (rescomp) mag bodies with Bolen or Grams internals. It has proved an excellent combination for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I must be fortunate in this department as I have not had any issues with OEM STI or Rescomp magazines working right out of the box. I have used them with both Grams and Bolen "guts" with none of the above mentioned issues. I haven't experienced the need for tuning. Which makes the product below somewhat unnecessary in my experience. But you may wanna invest in this product if you are having issues. Click picture for link to the website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofe954 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 You probably have already seen this from the search tips area, but... http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5195 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenTX Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I don't understand why SPS, Rescomp and Grams can advertise 18 rounds capacity, when it is evidently impossible to load more than 17. Rob. I don't know the specific ads you are refering to, but if the ads are in US publications, the reason may be, in the USPSA we have a mag gauge and in IPSC you have the box. My USPSA mags: one holds 19, four hold 20 and two hold 21. These are 140mm tubes with +1 basepads and all fit the USPSA mag gauge. It's been a while since I shot a match outside the US, but if I remember correctly, my IPSC mags are 126mm and to fit the IPSC box the only extended basepads you can use are the wedge basepads. With that set up I think I only get 17 rounds with the Grams follower. I will try them with the Bolen follower and see what I get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 All my STI mags run without tuning with Bolen guts and Dawson SNL pads. This is the key. They will run flawless with 19 rounds in the mag. If you want 20 round mags that will run 110% just get Tuned mags. I currently only have 1 tuned mag that will run 20 rounds. I should have just bought all tuned mags it actually would have been cheaper this way. Than to buy tubes plus shipping, then buy base pads plus shipping, then buy the internals plus shipping. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Here are some facts for me: I bought 5 new SVI mag 38S tubes. Grams followers/grams springs and dawson base pads. Four are 140 and have never been tuned and I ran Major 9 for two years and I am now running 38SC and the mags still function 100%. The big stick did not need tuning until I crammed 29 in the tube and one round got past the follower. I had the 170 tuned for 29 and it works 100%. Note: I over stressed the SVI 170 and caused the failure. I have used SVI and STI mags for limited (40) and run the same combinations except some have Grams basepads and some have Dawson. I have never had any malfunctions until I started trying to up the round count capacity of the mags. I have had SPS mags in 40 and can tell you for sure there is a MAX overall load length. I believe it is or was 1.165 or less in 40 . I was able to get around that by some dremel work. I don't know about anybody else, but I have never had to file or modify the mag release hole on any mag. Mags not dropping free are mostly attributed to the grip. Hand file the lower part and smooth with fine sandpaper seemed to always fix any mag not dropping free from my STI grips. Hope some of this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Comrades? Please dont use this word unless you add at arms. Bad political ju ju for some of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegRob Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 Rob, The slide lockback is easily fixed. Just remove material from the follower. Bob Londrigan has an excellent article about that: http://www.brazoscustom.com/magart/0505.htm I use K-mag (rescomp) mag bodies with Bolen or Grams internals. It has proved an excellent combination for me. Jup, thanks for the article. I'll probably modify the follower to avoid the lockback. I must be fortunate in this department as I have not had any issues with OEM STI or Rescomp magazines working right out of the box. I have used them with both Grams and Bolen "guts" with none of the above mentioned issues. I haven't experienced the need for tuning. Which makes the product below somewhat unnecessary in my experience. But you may wanna invest in this product if you are having issues. Click picture for link to the website. Thanks a lot, that is the product that I was thinking about, and was sure I had seen somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegRob Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) I don't understand why SPS, Rescomp and Grams can advertise 18 rounds capacity, when it is evidently impossible to load more than 17. Rob. I don't know the specific ads you are refering to, but if the ads are in US publications, the reason may be, in the USPSA we have a mag gauge and in IPSC you have the box. My USPSA mags: one holds 19, four hold 20 and two hold 21. These are 140mm tubes with +1 basepads and all fit the USPSA mag gauge. It's been a while since I shot a match outside the US, but if I remember correctly, my IPSC mags are 126mm and to fit the IPSC box the only extended basepads you can use are the wedge basepads. With that set up I think I only get 17 rounds with the Grams follower. I will try them with the Bolen follower and see what I get. You remember correctly about the IPSC-rules, and your experience of 17 rounds are equal to mine. I'll give you a couple of examples about the advertising: http://www.rescomp.co.za/pRHTULTRAMAG/RHT-...-Ultra-Mag.aspx (boasts 18+1) http://www.sps-dc.com/catalog/product_info...7d776ca3a90f6b0 (boasts 18+1) If you can make 18 rounds fit in any of these magazines, I'll buy the beer... Edited February 25, 2009 by RegRob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegRob Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 Comrades?Please dont use this word unless you add at arms. Bad political ju ju for some of us. Hm, I'm not from your woods, so I'm not able to tell if you're joking or not. I certainly did not mean to advocate any political, religious or other related opinion. Ve're not so tense about things like that were I come from. I'll try not to step on any toes, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry weeks Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 5 STI mags, all worked fine, well, except for sometimes not locking the slide back. Put in Grams followers, trimmed them to match my custom slide stop and everything works great. Shot one STI that would only run with SV magazines, but mine works great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegRob Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) 5 STI mags, all worked fine, well, except for sometimes not locking the slide back. Put in Grams followers, trimmed them to match my custom slide stop and everything works great. Shot one STI that would only run with SV magazines, but mine works great. This beats the hell out of me. Please watch while I take a brand new original STI tube, installs a brand new Grams follower and spring, right out of the pack, loads the magazine, and the first round nosedives like it was never even meant to work: There is no way this could ever cycle reliably, not without a lot of work. What is this, do I have really bad karma, or something?? Edited February 25, 2009 by RegRob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrShooter Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 The secret is that you have to bend the follower up and to the side so that the rounds don't nose dive. The springs don't come that way. Bending it up, keeps it from nose diving. Bending to the side, keeps it from over extending into the pistol after all the rounds are gone (catches the lip better). This is evidently tribal knowledge. When I complained about my mag performance at a match, an experienced shooter took my mags apart and ruined the nice neat look of the Grahms springs. Ta Da! No problems feeding. He was shown the trick by Bob from Brazos in the vendor tent at Nationals. This is my first year shooting 2011s, so this is all new to me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Where's Howard when you need him ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike cyrwus Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 The secret is that you have to bend the follower up and to the side so that the rounds don't nose dive. The springs don't come that way. Bending it up, keeps it from nose diving. Bending to the side, keeps it from over extending into the pistol after all the rounds are gone (catches the lip better).This is evidently tribal knowledge. When I complained about my mag performance at a match, an experienced shooter took my mags apart and ruined the nice neat look of the Grahms springs. Ta Da! No problems feeding. He was shown the trick by Bob from Brazos in the vendor tent at Nationals. This is my first year shooting 2011s, so this is all new to me too. How are you bending them to the side? as you look over the top of the magazine, bullets away from you, are you bending them to the left or the right? towards the taller side of the follower (right) or away (left). Me thinks right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I don't bend Grams springs as a matter of habit, if the mag tube is reasonably correct the spring will work as issued. The mag tubes vary and so do the grips. If you have several different mags and NONE of them work decently I would suspect the problem is with the gun and not the magazines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Comrades?Please dont use this word unless you add at arms. Bad political ju ju for some of us. I herd that was taking the place ...of ....In God we trust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahtsay Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I don't understand why SPS, Rescomp and Grams can advertise 18 rounds capacity, when it is evidently impossible to load more than 17. Rob. I don't know the specific ads you are refering to, but if the ads are in US publications, the reason may be, in the USPSA we have a mag gauge and in IPSC you have the box. My USPSA mags: one holds 19, four hold 20 and two hold 21. These are 140mm tubes with +1 basepads and all fit the USPSA mag gauge. It's been a while since I shot a match outside the US, but if I remember correctly, my IPSC mags are 126mm and to fit the IPSC box the only extended basepads you can use are the wedge basepads. With that set up I think I only get 17 rounds with the Grams follower. I will try them with the Bolen follower and see what I get. You remember correctly about the IPSC-rules, and your experience of 17 rounds are equal to mine. I'll give you a couple of examples about the advertising: http://www.rescomp.co.za/pRHTULTRAMAG/RHT-...-Ultra-Mag.aspx (boasts 18+1) http://www.sps-dc.com/catalog/product_info...7d776ca3a90f6b0 (boasts 18+1) If you can make 18 rounds fit in any of these magazines, I'll buy the beer... I have an IPSC Compliant Rescomp mag with Grams internals, it will hold 18 rds. easily reloadable. The basepads are custom made, wedge type, that a local gunsmith fabricated. I also have SV and SPS tubes with Bolen internals that also holds 18 rds. My ammo are considered long with an OAL of 1.80". I'm not really sure how I can help you since I didn't really do any tuning except for the SPS tube where I found that the next round touches the front part of the magazine causing me to double feed. I just took some material off the front where the bullet is touching, and it has been very reliable ever since. My advice is to get some SV carry tubes with Bolen internals. I think the basepads that I use are similar to the SV basepads for IPSC. My experience with SV is that they are good to go from the factory. Use it a few times to get it broken in....it should work just like that. Hope this helps a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TISCHLJ Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 My 2011 STI mags have all been reliable. I have 126mms that with the STI/Dawson box legal international pad will run 17 rnds with no problem. My 140's will run 19 or 20 with the Dawson basepads. All run the GRAMS follower and spring kit. I/m still fairly new to LTD, but I typically lightly sand with 400grit the feed lips inner and outer to remove any burrs from new mags, and sometimes let a mag, depending on its inner and outer finish go for a ride (alone) in my tumbler with fine walnut media to polish innner and outer surfaces. So far so good since 2007. . . and of course I keep them clean. . . Check your sear spring for intrusion into the magwell by both the legs as well as the "ledge" that goes into the catch notch- if either are intruding into the magwell this will prevent mags dropping free. As set out above, the slide lockback issue is easily remedied. . . Also check the ejector for proper clearance to the loaded and unloaded mags, it could be that the underside may need to be clearanced to prevent both contact with rounds or feedlips. . . There is also a Brazos article on slightly grinding the mag release for proper clearancing. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenTX Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 What is this, do I have really bad karma, or something?? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenTX Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 The secret is that you have to bend the follower up and to the side so that the rounds don't nose dive. The springs don't come that way. Bending it up, keeps it from nose diving. Bending to the side, keeps it from over extending into the pistol after all the rounds are gone (catches the lip better).This is evidently tribal knowledge. When I complained about my mag performance at a match, an experienced shooter took my mags apart and ruined the nice neat look of the Grahms springs. Ta Da! No problems feeding. He was shown the trick by Bob from Brazos in the vendor tent at Nationals. This is my first year shooting 2011s, so this is all new to me too. I have been using Grams springs and followers reliably for years, with 40 S&W and 38 Super and Supercomp, 140mm and 170mm, STI and SV mag tubes without ever bending a spring. Maybe I have been lucky, but I have or have had at least 22 different high cap mags that used them without bending spring. This is with two open guns and two limited guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpowe Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 If you do try bending the springs DON'T bent the front up! You'll have to rebend them every second or third time you load the mag and the metal fatigue will cause really early spring failure. Instead, bend the back of the second from the top loop DOWN. This bend will stay and not have to be rebent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RegRob Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 (edited) What is this, do I have really bad karma, or something?? Yes Thanks a lot. Personally I think I'm paying back for a decade of trouble-free Glocking. Edited February 27, 2009 by RegRob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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