Shooting the new classifier

[rowdyb]

Watch my video of it HERE

[B_RAD]

Anyone think it was made easier on purpose?

 

 

[JD45]

This is news to me. 

Could you post a link to the written description?

[racknrider]

1 hour ago, JD45 said:

This is news to me. 

Could you post a link to the written description?

http://www.idpa.com/misc/Rulebook 2017.pdf

9.9.6 Stage 1 LIMITED (7-yard line) 24 rounds total All Shot from P1 (6.4 Meters)

1. 9.9.6.1  String 1 (12 shots): Load exactly 6 rounds in the firearm. Draw and fire 2 shots to each body, reload from

   slide-lock and fire 2 shots at each head.

2. 9.9.6.2  String 2 (6 shots): Draw and fire 2 shots at each target strong hand only.

3. 9.9.6.3  String 3 (6 shots): Start with firearm in weak hand, fire 2 shots at each target.

9.9.7 Stage 2 LIMITED (5 and 10-yard line) 24 rounds total P2 and P3 (9.1 & 4.6 meters)

1. 9.9.7.1  String 1 (12 shots): Load exactly 6 rounds total in the firearm at P2. Start back to the target, turn, draw and fire

   2 rounds to each target, re-load from slide-lock and fire 2 more shots at each target.

2. 9.9.7.2  String 2 (6 shots): From the 10-yard line (P2), draw and fire 2 shots at each target while moving forward. Do

   not cross the line at P3.

3. 9.9.7.3  String 3 (6 shots): From the 5-yard line (P3), draw and fire 2 shots at each target while retreating from the

   targets.

9.9.8 Stage 3 LIMITED (15 and 20-yard line) 24 rounds total (18.3 & 13.7 meters)

1. 9.9.8.1  String 1 (12 shots): Load exactly 6 rounds total in the firearm at P4. Draw and fire 2 shots at each target using

   from either side of the barricade, re-load from slide-lock, advance to barrels at the 15 yard line (P5) and fire 2 shots at each target using cover shooting inside of the barrels on either side. Shooters choice. Shooter may not shoot around outside of barrels without incurring a penalty Per 5.1.

2. 9.9.8.2  String 2 (12 shots): Load exactly 6 rounds total in the firearm at P5. Draw and fire 2 shots at each target using cover from inside of the barrels, re-load from slide-lock move to the opposite barrels and fire 2 shots at each target using cover from inside the barrels. Shooter may not shoot around outside of barrels without incurring a penalty Per 5.1. 

Edited November 16, 2016 by racknrider
...

[rowdyb]

I don't know if it was made easier but it was made simpler that's for sure. Generally I think the skills in the new one are easier to get good at than the old one.

The old one has 14 strings, the new one 8.

13 draws in the old classifier. 7 in the new one.

4 reloads in both. Old one had two slide lock reloads and two loaded chamber reloads. New one has 4 slide lock reloads. No need to master a reload with retention now.

Old one you had to make a head shot(s) on 4 different strings. Now you do it i just one. 9 head shots before become 6 all at once in the new one.

Old one you had 24 shots at 20 yards, new one you have just 6 at that distance but 18 at 15 yards.

The new one goes faster, it's easier to load mags for, easier to shoot, more shooting from cover, use the same reloads the whole time. I'm fine with it.

Edited November 16, 2016 by rowdyb

[rowdyb]

This is from the proposed rule book starting january 1, 2017. I can shoot the old one and make master easily. I wanted to see if the new one felt the same. Like I said in the video, the type of shooting it is now I think will be easier for people to make MA from shooting the classifier.

[trp]

Isn't it true with very little practice anyone can ba a master in idpa?

[JD45]

No. It ain't that easy, but a good C-B USPSA production shooter can do it.

[v1911]

Rowdy is clearly a very good shooter that makes this look easier than it is. But I agree that this appears to be an easier classifier. But that also concerns me. I'm afraid we'll see a lot more people receiving paper rankings that will finish bottom of the heap come sanctioned match time. I wonder if we'll begin seeing an inflated number of MA shooters in the near future?

[racknrider]

7 hours ago, trp said:

Isn't it true with very little practice anyone can ba a master in idpa?

Yes. The master qualification has always been too low. 

[rowdyb]

2 hours ago, v1911 said:

Rowdy is clearly a very good shooter that makes this look easier than it is. But I agree that this appears to be an easier classifier. But that also concerns me. I'm afraid we'll see a lot more people receiving paper rankings that will finish bottom of the heap come sanctioned match time. I wonder if we'll begin seeing an inflated number of MA shooters in the near future?

Thank you, I of course only see all the errors and bobbles in my shooting in the video. It's my own personal opinion, and definitely the minority one, but I'd rather see people grandbag than sandbag. But yes, the percent of the membership that is MA should increase just from this new classifier.

This might fix some of what was widely said by people, "I'm a MA but I sure can't shoot a MA classifier." Well now I bet you can.

I like that you shoot from cover more in this version, I think that's a good change. Maybe with it shorter and simpler more clubs will shoot it during the year, also a good change in my opinion.

And as others said, I was MA in idpa and when I first classified in uspsa it was as B which I think is pretty common.

[Balakay]

Nice shooting.  You make it look easy.  

Question regarding Stage 3: Do you have to reload at the cover position and then advance to the barrels (or between the barrels) or can you reload while moving to the next position in the open??

[jwayne]

Watched your video,,,,,was smooth!!!  I think I will like the new classifier as well!!

[rowdyb]

4 hours ago, Balakay said:

Nice shooting.  You make it look easy.  

Question regarding Stage 3: Do you have to reload at the cover position and then advance to the barrels (or between the barrels) or can you reload while moving to the next position in the open??

that question has been raised quite a bit. obviously it'd be a way to cut a few seconds off instantly and with no skill required.

i didn't because i wanted to do it with a conservative interpretation of the rules. in the previous classifier you couldn't leave until the reload was finished so i didn't here.

i think the crux of it will be if there is a 1. clarification about this case unique to the classifier 2. is the target considered engaged after the two rounds from your first position or after the 4 rounds from both positions. my own thought was that it would be after the 4 rounds, so i couldn't leave and do a new rule style reload as i'd be exposed to targets not fully engaged having only two of their required 4 shots fired at them. it may be two shooting positions but it's still one target.

now, should they say you can leave and reload then i've instantly cut 3-4 seconds off my classifier time.

[TacticalReload]

Reading it, it seems like you would need to reload and then move instead of reloading on the move.  Of course, with the new rules about movement and reloading, who knows.

In a somewhat related note, have you tried leaving from the left side of the barricade instead of the right side?  I wonder if you could save half a second by moving to the left side while reloading and then leaving from left.  Of course, if it's okay to reload on the move, this is much less beneficial depending on how far out you lean during the first 6 shots.

[Tokarev]

Did you use the current scoring or the new proposed?

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[rowdyb]

i second per point down. did it all as much as i understood from the new rules.

[rowdyb]

2 hours ago, TacticalReload said:

Reading it, it seems like you would need to reload and then move instead of reloading on the move.  Of course, with the new rules about movement and reloading, who knows.

In a somewhat related note, have you tried leaving from the left side of the barricade instead of the right side?  I wonder if you could save half a second by moving to the left side while reloading and then leaving from left.  Of course, if it's okay to reload on the move, this is much less beneficial depending on how far out you lean during the first 6 shots.

yep i looked at that and for me it felt like a wash. i do enough dry fire to both sides moving, entering and exiting that i just went right/right.

[Jim Watson]

3 hours ago, TacticalReload said:

Reading it, it seems like you would need to reload and then move instead of reloading on the move.  Of course, with the new rules about movement and reloading, who knows.

 

Well, since the targets are fully engaged from 20 yards, it would seem acceptable to reload on the way to 15 yards.  But the Classifier has not always fit the mold of match stages.  The last bastion of the mandated LCR, now to be done away with at last.

[TacticalReload]

35 minutes ago, Jim Watson said:

Well, since the targets are fully engaged from 20 yards, it would seem acceptable to reload on the way to 15 yards.  But the Classifier has not always fit the mold of match stages.  The last bastion of the mandated LCR, now to be done away with at last.

The classifier also requires no cover garment.  I think it's a case of "do what we say, how we say".

[Tokarev]

i second per point down. did it all as much as i understood from the new rules.

Thanks. That's what I figured.

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[rowdyb]

but they don't become new targets at 15 yards. if you shot at it twice from twenty and said "im done" then that target wouldn't be considered fully engaged for scoring. it's a single target requiring shots from both 20 and 15 yards. that's the reasoning i used for not doing the reload on the way. right or wrong. their thinking or mine.

[JD45]

This classifier is not in the new rulebook that we waited on for years. So, you mean to tell me they came up with this AFTER they printed it?? And new scoring too!??

Plus it sounds like no one is even 100 percent sure where to reload?

[Tokarev]

This classifier is not in the new rulebook that we waited on for years. So, you mean to tell me they came up with this AFTER they printed it?? And new scoring too!??

Plus it sounds like no one is even 100 percent sure where to reload?

Sounds like the BoD is trying to change too much at once.

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[rowdyb]

uh, yeah it is in the new rule book. start looking at page 38 of the pdf http://www.idpa.com/misc/Rulebook 2017.pdf