Bill Schwab Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 I'm thinking of taking up some martial arts, partly because I've always been interested and have never tried and partly to enhance my shooting. I am getting a Tai Chi VHS tape for Christmas, I thought Tai Chi would help with my unathletic-like balance. Also thinking about getting a bokken, but am unsure of which bokken/martial arts discipline is best for my goals....there are so many disciplines that it's overwhelming! My goals are to enhance my balance, health, and coordination, the ultimate goal being enhanced shooting and having a fun time doing it. Does anyone have any advice, or can you provide some guidance or perhaps recommend a good book for a beginner who knows nothing? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 i believe taking the classes will only improve you shooting skills. lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Hi Bill, In my opinion, you can read all the books or watch all the movies that you want but it will never compare with training under the direction of a person that knows how to teach the art that you want to train for. Tae Kwon Do has many aerial kicks so if you have bad knees I do not recommend this art. I had good knees until I started and now they both are wasted. I did have a great time for several years though. The leg and back stretches are great for the large muscles and gave me a lot more flexibility. Kempo does not have the aerial kicks other wise it is similar to Tae Kwon Do in that it is a punching and kicking art. There are other aspects of the art that I did not train in. I went there to train on the long stick, short sticks and some knife work, which I found to be a lot of fun. Aki-jujitsu is a grappling art where you tend to spend half of the time hitting the ground. This is a place that the boken may be taught. It is fascinating how you can use your center of gravity to control someone much larger than you can. Hapkido has the art of joint manipulation dialed in. You can learn how to lock up a finger, wrist, elbow, shoulder and thus control your opponent. They also have some weapon training in the higher ranks. This was a lot of fun and the stretches were great for the joints. I have had personal experience with the styles listed above. Tai Chi sounds pretty good to me after being beat up with the other arts for several years. I have not tried it but my 78-year-old mother does it once a week. Hope this helped. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 I started Shotokan first, then started shooting so I can only relate this way. I found that shooting helped the martial arts. Then as I got deeper in both, they both complimented each other. There are a lot of similarities anyway. They both are the lifetime pursuit of perfection, they deal with weapons, focus, relaxation, etc... It would have to be true the other way too, if you take up martial arts, it will help your shooting. You will see faster (where have you heard that before!), have better focus (ditto!), and will be smoother and more relaxed (sound familiar?). Now having said all of that, there are martial arts and there are martial arts. Don't expect to learn much from a VHS tape. You think you are learning a lot, but you won't be in reality. The student needs the physical and mental contact from the teacher and the other students. No contact, no progression, no learning. Case in point: About 3 years ago, I was explaining what I had experienced on the application and timing of power. That's all Shotokan is anyway, the precise timing and application of a technique that is well overengineered. I was explaining that when I was a beginner, I learned the basic techniques. I felt like Arnold, man could I deliver a punch! Then we took some time to hit the bag. What a letdown that was, I found that I wasn't doing what I thought I was doing. I was delivering a weak, poorly timed technique. I discovered that punching air was completely different than hitting something correctly with good timing. I spent years learning that, and will spend all the years of my life learning even more. The moral of the story is this: Don't learn martial arts off of a tape. You could spend years punching air and noone will tell you that you are doing it wrong. You won't learn anything, except how some of your money has been wasted. Go to a traditional class with an open mind and start noticing how much Practical Shooting goes hand in hand with whatever style you pick. And speaking of styles, there is no magical 'best' style. Some are better than others, some are better suited than others to a particular person. Heck, go try some different styles out before you commit. If they won't let you train without paying, go somewhere else. You will eventually find something similar to what I did. I found a very traditional class with an instructor who does it for the fun of it, not profit. Tapes and books are good if you already have some knowledge of the art you are pursuing, and are looking for more knowledge. But with no base knowledge, you won't really learn anything, you just think you will. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Bill, those are some very worthy goals. Ultimately the martial arts will help you, but it is what YOU spend the time working n that is the greatest benefit. I think tai chi is the most beneficial martial art to study to enhance shooting. make sure you have a good stretching routine. Video is hard as heck to learn from... because everythning they do facing the camera is... well backwards to you. best is a rear 45deg. angle in most cases. I study karate, tae kwon do, tai chi, kung fu, aikido, judo and iaido... and i may have for gotten something. feel free to email, PM or post questions here if there is anything i can do to help. steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Also thinking about getting a bokken, but am unsure of which bokken/martial arts discipline is best for my goals....there are so many disciplines that it's overwhelming! Aside from the obvious sword-centric arts (iaido, kendo, shinkendo, shinkenjutsu, etc.), there are aikido schools that spend a lot of time with the jo (short bo) and bokken. Aikidale can probably tell you about that! But as you enter into this . . . remember that most people can't ride two horses with just one a**! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 And don't forget . . . you already are a practitioner of a martial art if you're a shooter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 And don't forget . . . you already are a practitioner of a martial art if you're a shooter! That is a true statement that a LOT of people do not even think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Hi Bill, I do both Iaido and Kendo for additional training. Iaido allows and teaches to focus on the little things and like Matt was saying, strive for perfection. Kendo, is my aggression and teaches me to focus my emotion and energy into a forceful, physical action against an opponent who's trying to get me too. I guess what I'm saying is that what you do is important and will be beneficial. I would advise, like everyone else here, and do it right by having it taught to you by an instructor. You will save much more time on sifting through both incorrect and incomplete information that an instructor would be able to correct immediately. And, you'll have a better understanding and more so an appreciation for the art itself. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Well the Martial Arts will def. help your training. Take this from me as I am a Martial Arts instructor. I use to compete nationally for many years and have been training for almost all my life. You first need to decide exactly what you're looking for in a Martial Art. I know you want it to help your shooting but that shouldn't be your sole reason. You need to decide what you want to get out of it. Do you want to do a lot of kicking, punching, grappling, weapons training, kickboxing? This is important because one of the biggest mistakes people do is to join the wrong art. If you are looking for something with mostly kicking drills then Tae Kwon Do would be your best bet. it will help most with balance and agility. However, to be successful in Tae Kwon Do you best have some athletic ability. If you want something for realistic street fighting then you may want to look into Jujitsu or Kenpo. Both systems have a lot to offer. If you look into Kenpo find a school that will teach the proper way to execute grappling techniques. My experiences with a lot of Kenpo instructors is they don't properly teach joint locks. Most systems involve weapons training. If you're looking for training in swordsmanship then a traditional Japanese Art will most likely be your best bet. it is tough to find a good Kendo or Iado instructor. Or maybe you just want to learn some movements and do a lot of sparring. You might want to try kickboxing or Muay Thai. If you have any questions I'll do whatever I can to help. Martial Arts have been my life long passion and I can help narrow down what you might want. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Bill, As you can gather from all the excellent suggestions above training in a martial art will most likely be good for you and help your shooting. Which martial art you study is not as important as the quality of the instruction you get and the quality of the time you put into it. Look in your phone book and find the schools in your area. Visit and watch a class. You may or may not be offered a chance to practice with the class. If you are take advantage of it. How does the instructor relate to the students? Do you like him? Would you buy a used car from him? Do you feel comfortable with the other students? Does the attitude or feel of the school appeal to you? If so, after you have visited several different schools teaching several different martial arts try one for a while. A caution, some schools will unintentionally destroy your elbows and, or, knees. If you are visiting a punching-kicking art watch for a full extension of the elbow when punching or a full extension of the knee when kicking. It looks pretty but it will destroy the joints if done when punching and kicking at air. Full extension should only be done, if then, when there is a target of sufficient mass to keep your joints from flying apart. Unfortunately this is lost knowledge in too many schools these days, but any good instructor will know better. After all, it is self defense not self abuse! Avoid these schools. If you tell us where you live we may be able to suggest a reputable place to check out. Books and tapes, as has been mentioned, are good for background and reference, not to learn from. Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 I AikiDale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 I've done some martial arts training in Ju Jitsu, Kung Fu, and european-style fencing (as opposed to Kendo). I would say, of the arts I've tried, fencing felt the most relevant to shooting. Fencing minimizes requirements for strength and power, and maximizes the requirement for speed and finesse. It allowed me to learn to see--observing my opponent's actions, and counteracting without conscious thought, with an ever increasing repertoir of counter moves, and increasing subtlety of triggers for each. For the asian martial arts, my general impression is that Karate, and its relatives, as well as the Korean arts, seem to focus on directing force and power in straight lines--powerful punches and kicks. Kung Fu, Aikido, and Ju-Jitsu are more about taking your opponent off balance and using his momentum against him. Moving and attacking along circular paths. In Ju Jitsu, we used to train blindfolded, and Sensei would have a classmate attack by grabbing you somewhere, and you had to discern by feel how you were being grabbed, and counter. In grappling, too, it was important to be able to feel your opponents position and momentum, but not so important to act instantly--grappling is more of a thinking man's game. Anyway, just a few impressions. DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Shooting is a martial art. If you aren't very coordinated you might consider something like ballet or dance classes for your feet. Since being able to maintain your balance is important. I think that table tennis, or raquet ball would be a good supliment for endurance and your hand eye coordination. The ball moves fast and you have to train your eyes to see fast and stay relaxed. I think those would be better to help your shooting than a martial art. Martial arts are great for a lot of reasons, but the time they take to do right would severely cut in to your shooting time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 I wonder if playing "Whack-a-Mole" would help shooting. It should help with reaction time, "seeing" faster, and economy of motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Rhino, I must say that it is hard to stay relaxed playing wack-a-mole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Ah! One must be relaxed to be truly efficient mole bopper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Right! You have to learn to make your whacking effortless . . . unconcsious. Make your foam covered mallet an extension of your arm . . . . . . and remember, you can only whack as fast as you can see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 . . . and remember, you can only whack as fast as you can see! I'll leave that one alone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadetree Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 I don't want to waste your time repeating what others have said. Most of there advice is very good. I will add only this, If you dedicate a good amount of time to the study of martail arts and there theory and you have a good instructor it will have a great positive impact on every aspect of your life. Shooting included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Bill, You have received a lot of good advice and if you're still in the N. Va. area, there are a lot of good schools to check out. I've studied Aikido, Kyto-ryu Jiujitsu, and Russian Sambo along with enough different weapons to only hurt myself. For a discipline that will help your shooting, I would recommend Aikido. Continue to do your research, but I think you will find Aikido is the most adaptable art. It centers on simple redirection of energy principals; conservation and exploitation of energy. Aikido is known as a water technique. Everything flows, if you encounter resistance, you flow around it. Very interesting stuff. You'll still get all you takedown, throw, locks, breaks, etc.., but it involves a lot of balance and using your hips to generate energy. One thing I'll always remember is my Aikido instructor telling us, "If you break a sweat doing Aikido, you're doing something wrong." Good luck with your search and keep us posted on what you decide. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Considering the question you asked everyone has been very civil. Asking what is the best martial art is usually the start of a longgggg agrument. However since you asked allow me to recommend Aikido. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Schwab Posted December 19, 2003 Author Share Posted December 19, 2003 I appreciate all the great advice, I received better thought provoking answers to my post than expected. I guess my desire to start studying the martial arts was formed by my constant right ankle pain that I seem to get from jogging. I love jogging, but have been looking for something to fill the void created by my inability to continue; I've tried stretching more, and braces all to no avail, I have small ankles and wrists that seem to be very susceptible to injury. I was looking for something that would benefit my shooting because that is my #1 interest. I exercise very early in the morning because I have three kids that make it all but impossible to accomplish any training in the evening after work. Therefore I would need to study the martial arts at 5 AM, which is impossible given the lack of civilization in my area....there's only a few schools and they're all in the evening. If I get any time to myself in the evening it goes to shooting and I really don't want to change that because as it stands now my dry fire routines are sporadic at best. So to make a long story short I think I'll forgo with any martial arts at this time. I do not feel sad about this decision, instead I feel patient that there will be a time in my life when I will have time to shoot competitively at a high level and study the martial arts. And yes, I understand that shooting is a martial art. Thanks for all the insightful replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Bill, To bring this back full-circle... The Tai Chi or Yoga might be what you are looking for. "My goals are to enhance my balance, health, and coordination..." Maybe some of the Martial Artist can chime in here, but I think the stances and postions that Tai Chi (and Yoga) require will, indeed, draw on many of the secondary/stabilizer muscles (not the "prime movers"). If so, working these muscles will improve balance and coordination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Flexmoney, Agreed, Tai Chi would be passive and not aggravate the existing problem as much as other martial arts. Bill, If books and videos are all you have time for it would be better than not doing it at all. Give it a try. I am sorry but I do not know any good sources for either but I will ask some friends and see what they come up with. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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