Any one using Berrys Plated 9mm?

[yzernie]

I've used Berry's since the early 80's when his little shop was run out of his garage in Fontana, Ca. They were only lead then I've always found them to be as accurate as anything else. The plated bullets seem to be fine and I have not experienced any issues with them out of my Sigs.

I've heard good things about Montana Gold but have never tried them. I may have to give them a shot...no pun intended!!

[BillR1]

You forgot shipping on the PV price for the Berry's.

MG 124gr CMJs are $78/K shipped if you buy a case. R,

I just got 1K Berrys 9mm 124 gr RN for $73.61 delivered from PV. ($63.66 + $9.95 shipping)

For the difference in quality, plated should save you one heck of lot more than $4.39/K! In fact, you're getting robbed at that price

I guess "quality" will be judged by accuracy. If the Berrys shoot well and don't lead the barrel excessively, that's all the quality I need.

[JDucros]

Anyone have any load data for 9mm Berry's in 124gr Round Nose using Alliant Unique powder and Remington 1 1/2 Small Pistol Primers. I've finally got some time to use the press I got from Brian and until I can get some different bullets and powder this is what I have to work with.

Also, am I missing something or is there a reason why my Lyman manual(49th Edition) doesn't have any data for a 124gr 9mm round?

I chronoed 124 Berrys with 6.0 of Unique,COL of 1.135 and i averaged out to 1150 fps

Thanks for the info! I really appreciate it.

-James

[JDucros]

There's nothing wrong with somewhat compressed loads. All of my Open ammo (both .38SC and 9 Major) is compressed....at least it makes it impossible to get a double charge.

You're seeing this because you're using a powder that's pretty slow for 9mm. A faster powder, and a smaller charge, is much more common. How did you pick Unique in the first place? It's a pretty odd choice unless you're listening to someone who stopped following developments in powder 20 years ago!

Well Bart, I don't know. I went to Cabella's looking for TiteGroup and WST and they were completely out. I went with Unique because it was listed in the Lyman manual and two of the guys behind the counter said they have used it with success. I've since been back and have picked up TiteGroup which I will use next.

I figured there was no harm in trying it out. I'm just starting out and figure I might give several different types of powder a try. I've got about 100 rounds of 9mm 124gr in several batches with Unique ranging from 4.5gr to 6.0gr to see what kind of performance I get with it out of my glock at the range. After trying that out I'm going to do the same with the TiteGroup powder. I'll let you know how things turn out at the range.

Thanks again for your input Bart, you're always on top of things which is real cool of you.

Thanks to everyone else who has helped me out while i'm getting started.

Chers,

-James

[G-ManBart]

I guess "quality" will be judged by accuracy. If the Berrys shoot well and don't lead the barrel excessively, that's all the quality I need.

So you'd pay as much, or more, for something that costs the manufacturer less to produce? It's pretty funny (sad?) that people defend the plated bullet companies when the reality is that they're sticking it to the customer more than the jacketed bullet companies....plating simply doesn't cost as much, but they're charging you like it does. They used to be significantly cheaper than jacketed, which made sense, and there's no reason that should have changed.

I'm not saying it's true in your case, but when I hear people say stuff like your comments above, I'll sometimes ask exactly what their gun will do on a guaranteed, repeatable basis. They'll come back with some answer and then I'll ask if they'd be willing to wager something on it...say $100 if they can do it on demand. I get a lot of hemming and hawing on that one.

[BillR1]

I guess "quality" will be judged by accuracy. If the Berrys shoot well and don't lead the barrel excessively, that's all the quality I need.

So you'd pay as much, or more, for something that costs the manufacturer less to produce? It's pretty funny (sad?) that people defend the plated bullet companies when the reality is that they're sticking it to the customer more than the jacketed bullet companies....plating simply doesn't cost as much, but they're charging you like it does. They used to be significantly cheaper than jacketed, which made sense, and there's no reason that should have changed.

I'm not saying it's true in your case, but when I hear people say stuff like your comments above, I'll sometimes ask exactly what their gun will do on a guaranteed, repeatable basis. They'll come back with some answer and then I'll ask if they'd be willing to wager something on it...say $100 if they can do it on demand. I get a lot of hemming and hawing on that one.

My point is if they shoot well (for me) and don't lead the barrel up, then there's little or no difference in practical quality. Then the cost is a factor and they ARE cheaper. I'm paying less for them per 1K than even a much larger buy (3K) from MG.

Edited December 3, 2010 by BillR1

[G-ManBart]

My point is if they shoot well (for me) and don't lead the barrel up, then there's little or no difference in practical quality. Then the cost is a factor and they ARE cheaper. I'm paying less for them per 1K than even a much larger buy (3K) from MG.

I got your point

So, have you really done a detailed comparison to know if there really isn't any difference in practical quality? What differences did you see (or not see) in average group size to make it not worth the extra .00439 cents per round?

Hey, if you're happy with "good enough" when just a few dollars would get you something better, knock yourself out.

I simply find what the plated bullet companies have done to be ridiculous...they're screwing customers on price, comparatively speaking, but if people are willing to accept that...

The sad part is that many people don't even realize that plated bullets have gone up so much in price that they range from nearly as expensive, to more expensive (which is really crazy) than jacketed bullets which are almost always going to outperform plated from an accuracy standpoint. I think a lot of those folks are legacy buyers who haven't even thought to look at jacketed prices now...just assuming they would have gone up as much as plated did. R,

[BillR1]

My point is if they shoot well (for me) and don't lead the barrel up, then there's little or no difference in practical quality. Then the cost is a factor and they ARE cheaper. I'm paying less for them per 1K than even a much larger buy (3K) from MG.

I got your point

So, have you really done a detailed comparison to know if there really isn't any difference in practical quality? What differences did you see (or not see) in average group size to make it not worth the extra .00439 cents per round?

Hey, if you're happy with "good enough" when just a few dollars would get you something better, knock yourself out.

Nope, I have not. I just restarted reloading for the 9mm, and I haven't had a chance to shoot the first 100 of these Berrys I loaded up. (snow on the ground) The only comparison I'll have right now is how the gun shoots with 115gr. Blazer Brass. That's all I've shot in the new G17 so far. IF these shoot as well as the BB do, I'll be a happy guy. If not, I'll start exploring why. I loaded them pretty light, as that's what I wanted anyway for IDPA. If I was getting to +p/major velocities, I don't think I'd have tried them. I guess we'll see this weekend.

[GForceLizard]

This should be obvious but. You need to check the price of each product individually. Company A may sell 147gr cheapest. In 115gr company B may be cheaper than company A. I find that 9mm 147gr from one company will not have the best price on 45ACP 230gr. You have to treat each one separately.

[twodownzero]

I guess "quality" will be judged by accuracy. If the Berrys shoot well and don't lead the barrel excessively, that's all the quality I need.

So you'd pay as much, or more, for something that costs the manufacturer less to produce? It's pretty funny (sad?) that people defend the plated bullet companies when the reality is that they're sticking it to the customer more than the jacketed bullet companies....plating simply doesn't cost as much, but they're charging you like it does. They used to be significantly cheaper than jacketed, which made sense, and there's no reason that should have changed.

I'm not saying it's true in your case, but when I hear people say stuff like your comments above, I'll sometimes ask exactly what their gun will do on a guaranteed, repeatable basis. They'll come back with some answer and then I'll ask if they'd be willing to wager something on it...say $100 if they can do it on demand. I get a lot of hemming and hawing on that one.

Market price really has little to do with the cost of producing a product.

Jacketed and plated bullets are both massively overpriced in today's market.

[evild]

I guess "quality" will be judged by accuracy. If the Berrys shoot well and don't lead the barrel excessively, that's all the quality I need.

So you'd pay as much, or more, for something that costs the manufacturer less to produce? It's pretty funny (sad?) that people defend the plated bullet companies when the reality is that they're sticking it to the customer more than the jacketed bullet companies....plating simply doesn't cost as much, but they're charging you like it does. They used to be significantly cheaper than jacketed, which made sense, and there's no reason that should have changed.

I'm not saying it's true in your case, but when I hear people say stuff like your comments above, I'll sometimes ask exactly what their gun will do on a guaranteed, repeatable basis. They'll come back with some answer and then I'll ask if they'd be willing to wager something on it...say $100 if they can do it on demand. I get a lot of hemming and hawing on that one.

Market price really has little to do with the cost of producing a product.

Jacketed and plated bullets are both massively overpriced in today's market.

I found a box of Winchester .224 jsp bt bullets I bought in the early 90's, with the price on them, $4.50, and a box of primers for $12.99, midway sells Winchester .223 55g bullets for $14, and primers for $31 , no way in hell manufacturing costs went up that much on them, if that doesn't back up your statement, i din't know what will.

[JDucros]

My point is if they shoot well (for me) and don't lead the barrel up, then there's little or no difference in practical quality. Then the cost is a factor and they ARE cheaper. I'm paying less for them per 1K than even a much larger buy (3K) from MG.

I got your point

So, have you really done a detailed comparison to know if there really isn't any difference in practical quality? What differences did you see (or not see) in average group size to make it not worth the extra .00439 cents per round?

Hey, if you're happy with "good enough" when just a few dollars would get you something better, knock yourself out.

Nope, I have not. I just restarted reloading for the 9mm, and I haven't had a chance to shoot the first 100 of these Berrys I loaded up. (snow on the ground) The only comparison I'll have right now is how the gun shoots with 115gr. Blazer Brass. That's all I've shot in the new G17 so far. IF these shoot as well as the BB do, I'll be a happy guy. If not, I'll start exploring why. I loaded them pretty light, as that's what I wanted anyway for IDPA. If I was getting to +p/major velocities, I don't think I'd have tried them. I guess we'll see this weekend.

[JDucros]

Jacketed and plated bullets are both massively overpriced in today's market.

I remember when a box of 100 12ga #7 1/2 bird shot at WallyWorld was $12. Now it's $27. For 9mm 50 round Winchester White Box was $8.50, now it's $15.

I'm not going to get into a political debate on this because I think it's pretty useless however one of the best things Obama did for the gun industry was threaten to push for gun control and new bans without following through. I'm not afraid to admit i'm a gun lovin' Democrat but this was a bad move for the Democratic party both economically and politically.

< soap box >

Economically it helped raise prices on Guns and Ammo making American's hard earned money less valuable when it comes to enjoying one of America's oldest traditions.

Politically it made the party look foolhardy and weak. It showed that politicians as a whole don't look at the bigger picture, only what will make better headlines in tomorrow's paper.

This is just my opinion and I realize others may feel differently however there is no denying that ammo prices are at an all time high. When I see 20 rounds of MagTech self defense ammo on SALE for $32 I shake my head in shame. All the petty bickering between our two parties not only got us in the financial pickle we're currently in but they also made it even less affordable for American's to defend themselves and their families.

< / rant > < / soap box >

Cheers,

-James

[BillR1]

OK, got a chance to do some shooting today with the Berrys. My load is 3.2gr of Clays, Berry's 125gr RN DS, and 1.15 OAL. It's a sweet-shooting load, and it's more than accurate enough to keep everything in the head at 15 yards. I didn't shoot more than 25 yards due to the copious amount of mud at the range, so I'm not sure what long distance is like. I also don't have a chrono, so I'm not even sure if it makes minor. It cycles perfectly in the G17 with a 13# spring.

After 100 rounds, the barrel (OEM) didn't even appear dirty. It was spotless with just a few passes from a BoreSnake. I also didn't see any evidence on the target of keyholes or fragmentation of the bullets at all. There were simply nice round holes.

I'm impressed so far, but it's only been 100 rounds.

Edited December 4, 2010 by BillR1

[CeeZer]

They are plated, there won't be any barrel leading. Good bullets, I tried them and bought 10K to keep me going; I got 8% discount due to volume with $68/1000 price after discount

[Emerson]

I've loaded 5k or 6k rounds of Berrys 100gr bullets with 2.8 gr of Titegroup in the .380 without a problem. They load and shoot very well.

[Paul-the new guy]

Bringing an old thread back to life....

I loaded up some 147 grn Berry's today for my Glock 17 using N-320. I was pretty happy with the results but I am kind of new to the chronograph stuff so please tell me if this looks like I am going in the right direction I fired 10 rounds of each load across the chronograph....

1st load 3.3 grains of N-320 using Winchester WSP primers OAL 1.155

Avg = 876

ES = 41

SD = 12

Power factor 128

2nd load 3.6 grains of N-320 WSP primers OAL 1.155

AVG = 931

ES = 48

SD = 12

Power factor 137

Both loads seemed to be about the same as far as accuracy. Neither felt that much different than the other. I did realize, putting a Dawson Precision front sight with my stock Glock rear changed my point of impact at 25 yards by about 5 inches I was shooting about 5 inches low. The Berry bullets seem to be very consistent I grabbed 10 from a box and weighed them, they were between 147.1 and 147.5. I was impressed that the spread was so small .4 grns. In contrast my 180 grn BBI's fluctuated by more than 4 grains, not .4 I actually grabbed 10 BBI's from the box and they ranged from 178 - 194

[Blcksmk]

Berrys makes some great bullets! I use them for alot of my loads until I found out how much cheaper moly coated bullets are!

Heres my load for my Glock 17 Production gun-

115 FP Berrys Plated Bullets

1.120 OAL

4.5-4.6 GR of Titegroup

Last time I was able to borrow a chrono it came out around 132PF...

[lugnut]

I use Berrys almost exclusively. Your results with 3.6gr are very similar to my results with my G34 which is a little odd... I'd expect mine to be faster. Either way- I wouldn't go to 3.3gr, too many ejection issues. I like my loads comfortably over 130 PF.

Bringing an old thread back to life....

I loaded up some 147 grn Berry's today for my Glock 17 using N-320. I was pretty happy with the results but I am kind of new to the chronograph stuff so please tell me if this looks like I am going in the right direction I fired 10 rounds of each load across the chronograph....

1st load 3.3 grains of N-320 using Winchester WSP primers OAL 1.155

Avg = 876

ES = 41

SD = 12

Power factor 128

2nd load 3.6 grains of N-320 WSP primers OAL 1.155

AVG = 931

ES = 48

SD = 12

Power factor 137

Both loads seemed to be about the same as far as accuracy. Neither felt that much different than the other. I did realize, putting a Dawson Precision front sight with my stock Glock rear changed my point of impact at 25 yards by about 5 inches I was shooting about 5 inches low. The Berry bullets seem to be very consistent I grabbed 10 from a box and weighed them, they were between 147.1 and 147.5. I was impressed that the spread was so small .4 grns. In contrast my 180 grn BBI's fluctuated by more than 4 grains, not .4 I actually grabbed 10 BBI's from the box and they ranged from 178 - 194

[Paul-the new guy]

I use Berrys almost exclusively. Your results with 3.6gr are very similar to my results with my G34 which is a little odd... I'd expect mine to be faster. Either way- I wouldn't go to 3.3gr, too many ejection issues. I like my loads comfortably over 130 PF.

Now you tell me.... I came home and loaded 300 of the 3.3 load I shot 25 rounds total of each load and all of them ejected fine. One did hit me in the chest but other than that they seemed ok... I guess I will see.

[lugnut]

I use Berrys almost exclusively. Your results with 3.6gr are very similar to my results with my G34 which is a little odd... I'd expect mine to be faster. Either way- I wouldn't go to 3.3gr, too many ejection issues. I like my loads comfortably over 130 PF.

Now you tell me.... I came home and loaded 300 of the 3.3 load I shot 25 rounds total of each load and all of them ejected fine. One did hit me in the chest but other than that they seemed ok... I guess I will see.

Every gun is different. If those loads give you the slide speeds you need and you don't get too many rounds in the face you may be ok. Either way... 300 rounds is just a short practice anyway.

[KPIC24]

Your going to have to be around 3.6-3.8gr for clay's for 125gr bullets.

[RobfromME]

Good afternoon,

I use 4.0 grains Power Pistol with a Berry's 147 grain RN bullet. Works and shoots great. 921 fps in an XD9 Tactical (5" bbl). 857 fps in a HK P2000. I've been very happy with Berry's and Rainier. But I love Zero, Precision Delta, and Montana Gold, too. All have been great.

Warmest regards,

Rob

[mervalus]

I load Berrys 115 gr 9mm with Bullseye 4.2 gr , #100 fed primers for Sig 226's

2000 rds at a time with no problemas . Good luck Merv