Is Negative self talk really a Negative thing?

[CHA-LEE]

I know that to keep your moral and confidence peaked during a match you must maintain a Positive attitude and dismiss your mistakes. If you dwell on your mistakes during a match they consume your thoughts and drag down your confidence. This is a well known thing and not what I am trying to discuss here.

What about when the match is over? What should your mental state and self talk be? At what point should your mind transition over to “Improvement” mode and you start thinking about all of the things you screwed up in the match and need to work on getting better with?

I know for myself, during a match I am positive and am able to dismiss screw up’s with relative ease. Not thinking about them again during the match. But as soon as the match is over this laundry list of screw up’s I had instantly comes to the front of my mind and I chew on this negative self talk relentlessly. Not so much beating myself up over the issues or tearing down my confidence. But instead really focusing on the negative aspects of my shooting so I can explore what can be done to overcome them. I rarely if ever give myself a mental pat on the back for a job well done. I instead grind on the negative things incessantly.

Coming from a previous highly competitive hobby I used this never ending negative mental grind on trying to improve the “Issues” in my racing to distract me from the pressures of performing in a race. This worked very well to detach my emotions from when I had to perform. So well in fact that I had won a national title one year and didn’t even “Realize” the magnitude of the achievement until about a week later. Even though I won the race, I could still only think about my screw ups during the race and what I needed to do to resolve them. It wasn’t until about a week later, after I had a plan for resolving the issues that I experienced that it dawned on me that I had just won a national title and it was a huge accomplishment.

I guess my mental game/preparation is opposite of what most of the “Mental Conditioning” books suggest. Most of them have you build and maintain a self image of being the Champion all the time. Before, During, and After the competition. I only have this “Champion” self image During the act of competing. The rest of the time I feel like I am far from a champion as I always have this long list of things to improve upon.

Is this a strange mental situation to be in? What does everyone else experience?

[Nik Habicht]

I think that anytime you find yourself focusing on emotional thoughts --- Drats! I always miss my first shot on steel, or Yippee! I always hit my first shot on steel --- that's a good time to engage in positive and rational self talk. Acknowledge your mistakes or shortcomings without letting them determine how you feel about yourself. Acknowledge your successes and accomplishments without letting them determine how you feel about yourself.

Looking at any of these things in isolation doesn't begin to address who you are -- there's more to your story. So let it go.....

From a training standpoint -- what went well? What didn't? You'll want to work to maintain that which you do well, and work harder to correct that which didn't.....

It can be hard to correct shortcomings -- sometimes the best you can do is focus your attention on the process, not on the intended result, and just be open to what you can perceive by paying attention to the process. Then use that info to shape your corrective actions....

It can also be hard to reinforce things you do well --- I had a Nationals experience in 2005 at PASA where it seemed like I could not miss a piece of steel. Drawing to it, taking it on the way into a port, taking it on the way out of a port, taking it on the move, it was one shot, one steel down. Then I missed a piece of steel -- and had to halt, reverse direction for a step to knock it down. I missed it because I'd become complacent, I'd noticed my performance and taken it for granted, and I hadn't paid attention to the piece of steel --- hence didn't see what I needed to to knock it down. Oh, we're talking a full popper at maybe 12 yards --- not exactly a hard target......

To make a long post shorter -- get out of your own head.....

[j1b]

I'm a negative self talker.

During and after a match I tend to be very critical. Very challenging. Even on stages that I shot better I tend to be very critical. Maybe more critical.

After a match I analyze and assess and generally challenge things again.

Don't get me wrong, it doesn't weigh me down. I don't let it "stop" me, I am just critical. I believe in continuous improvement, in a match or otherwise. Critical self talk helps me do that.

The two things I keep in mind are this: If I am indeed my own worst critic, and I have the highest expectations of myself, then it is my duty to hold myself to that. So I do.

Second is that I can "take" my own self talk. I can deal with it. It isn't a personal bash session, it is simply hearty acknowledgement that improving is the goal and the expectation.

Jack

[XRe]

Consider that "critical" does not equal "negative"....

[CHA-LEE]

Nik Habicht> Thanks for the feedback and it makes sense.

I guess the thing that confuses people that know me is when I do well in a match, I may even win the match, but I still feel like I didn’t do as well as I could have. When people ask me how I did I tell them my honest opinion of my performance, which is usually sub-par to my expectations so I state it as such. My goal isn’t to win the match, but to perform to a level that meets or exceeds my expectations. To me, if I feel that I shot like a donkey and happened to do well at a match that isn’t a “Win” in my book. I still failed to execute what I wanted to do so really it’s a loss for me.

For an example, my wife has a hard time understanding this post match negative self image mentality. She asks me how I did at the match and I say “OK, but I made some mistakes”. Then she asks me how I finished and I say that I won my division and he is stumped as to why I am not doing a back flip in excitement on winning the match. Sure I may have done better than the other shooters I was competing against. But I still didn’t do as well as I expected to do. So its really not a “Win” to me. There is still work that needs to be done to overcome the mistakes I made.

I am yet to have a match where I am shooting 100% solid on every single stage. That is one of my long term goals that I am yet to achieve. Once I do, that will be a “Win” for me. Then I will change up the goal to make it a month of 100% solid matches, then a year, and on and on and on. In order to do this the only way to improve is to isolate your weaknesses and dig deep into your failures to find the root cause so it can be fixed. This is a very Negative side of the mental process to navigate on a continual basis. But how else would you overcome these things if you were not hip deep in the crap you don’t like or currently suck at?

I guess I have never been a big proponent of lying to myself (You are ALWAYS the Best!!) in order to trick myself into feeling better about a specific skill or confidence than I really have. I am as good as I am, nothing more, nothing less. The confidence I have while shooting is built upon my competency in the skills I have practiced.

[AlamoShooter]

........ .......What if we approached ....Sex the same way as shooting? Before and after emotion / feeling??

how long would you could you perform at peek for the next entire event ,......If your mate gave you a blistering Ball busting evaluation after the "match" was over

If she has something she wants you to do better she had best tell you three things she liked before the "do better part" and three more things she like that you did just after she tells you about the "Do This Better" part

As I get some age I learn to look for the Joy first in every shooting event

and yes Nick sounds like sharp guy good advice

Edited December 2, 2009 by AlamoShooter

[CHA-LEE]

AlamoShooter> Good points as well. I guess some people need more positive reinforcement with a dash of "Do this better" mixed in there.

I myself don't need a pat on the back when I do things right. I know I did them right so I don't worry about it. I am more concerned with fixing the bad stuff.

[Jack T]

Keep an intricate log of your performances. When you did your best/worst. Use it to plan your match and post match strategy/training. I am my own worst critic, but it only makes me work harder to overcome the deficiencies. The negatives have no place during the match.

We are all different in our mental/physical abilities and how we approach the game.

My mind is my worst enemy and I tend to overthink, it always runs at 1000 MPH. I do my best when I just have fun and don't take myself too seriously. If I just learned to stay in my comfort zone I would have consistent top 5/10 finishes. I am not able to do that so I shoot one stage at the GM level and the next at the C level. Horrible consistency!

Jack T

Edited December 2, 2009 by Jack T

[Flexmoney]

Visualization is strong mojo.

What do you visualize?

[CocoBolo]

ChaLee - I find this the most mental game I have every played. Being negative will definately cause your performance to go only one way down! Keep positive and keep confident, sure you just busted a no shoot at 3 yards drilled it right in the middle of the head no perf for you, that hostage didn't suffer. Its one shot in 150 it happens move on. If you bowl do you quit an go home cause you had a 299 game?

[CHA-LEE]

Flexmoney> That is a pretty vague question. Can you clarify when, where and for what?

[CHA-LEE]

CocoBolo> I fully agree with what you are saying. You have to keep positive and roll with the punches during a match. I am talking about the negative thought process before and after the match. When your brain has time to chew on your performance and mistakes.

[Flexmoney]

Flexmoney> That is a pretty vague question. Can you clarify when, where and for what?

It likely doesn't matter how I think or clarify. Don't we all clarify it for ourselves?

...by the amplitude, frequency, clarity and volume (< random terms) of our own thoughts?

[rtr]

Sorry to go offtopic, but I had to find out about Charlie's racing past:

[benos]

What about when the match is over? What should your mental state and self talk be?

For me, I objectively reviewed everything that happened, and from that planned my next practice sessions.

be

[CHA-LEE]

rtr> Nice find!!! That picture brings back some memories

[CHA-LEE]

What about when the match is over? What should your mental state and self talk be?

For me, I objectively reviewed everything that happened, and from that planned my next practice sessions.

be

I try my best to do this as well. But doing this keeps me thinking about the "Negative" stuff so I can come up with the list of things to work on the next time I shoot.

I don't mind doing this. This is how I learn. The main reason why I started this thread is that most of the performance books you read try to put you into a mental state where you think you can do no wrong, or you have already won. That isn't a valid thought process for me because if I thought that I was the best and already won, I wouldn’t be motivated to get any better. I wouldn’t think that there would be any bad stuff to work on.

This is where it would be very interesting to see what the mental motivation process is for the top shooters. I would assume that they would have to be in a continual loop of performance judgment followed by some action to correct the issue. Even if you were the best shooter in the world, there would always be something that you would be working on to take it to the next level. Or at least I think so.

You being in this exact situation would be the best person to elaborate on this.

[JohnGaultsGun]

Visualization is strong mojo.

What do you visualize?

Practice as well. Good practice.

[XRe]

I try my best to do this as well. But doing this keeps me thinking about the "Negative" stuff so I can come up with the list of things to work on the next time I shoot.

Read my post above again. I think you're confusing "negative" with simply being critical of your performance. There's nothing wrong with filing away a list of stuff you believe you can improve upon. The question is - what do you do with that, now? Do you say something like "Ok, here's a list of stuff I need to practice..." and move on, or do you say something like "I suck. I did this wrong, and that was all screwed up. I can't do anything right. There's no way I'm going to win...". The latter is negative self talk, and will bite you in the ass eventually. The former is filing away objective observation so that you can use that later in the context of "tearing down to build back up".

I don't mind doing this. This is how I learn. The main reason why I started this thread is that most of the performance books you read try to put you into a mental state where you think you can do no wrong, or you have already won. That isn't a valid thought process for me because if I thought that I was the best and already won, I wouldn't be motivated to get any better. I wouldn't think that there would be any bad stuff to work on.

The two go hand in hand, in the end. See... where a lot of the performance books seem to get it wrong is that they gloss over the fact that the confidence they're talking about comes as a result of hard work in practice (both physical skill work, and mental game work), and hard won experience in matches. You know what you can do when you get there, because you've already done it, multiple times, in practice and in match scenarios. The other part of it is that when you hit a stage, view it in positive terms - "I'm good at surrender draws", "I'm solid at shooting on the move", etc - rather than in negative terms - "I stink at swingers", "I miss a lot on long shots", "I hate standards"... When you encounter something you don't know about, or you've failed at previously, you emphasize the things you know, and take on a "I'm going to make a solid effort at this" attitude.

Put another way - just because you note down the warts on your performance doesn't mean you have to engage in negative, sabotaging self-talk. I'd encourage you to also note down the bright spots in your performance, so you've got a catalog of good stuff to lean on, too, if you're not doing that

Trying to adopt a swagger born of false bravado doesn't work - although you can sort of "fake it until you make it" (ie, act as if you were capable of the things you'd like to do - for instance, pick out a GM you like, and act as if you were that person when you approach a stage...). In the end, I think a lot of the books leave you with the idea that you're supposed to try to lie to yourself like that - and long term, that doesn't seem to be a workable solution.

Keeping a list of stuff to refine is a good thing when kept in the right context, as it gives you fuel for your next practice sessions, and a direction to head in.

I don't think you'll find anyone who's a world champion who's sitting around thinking they're the best, and they don't need to improve any more... that should tell you something

This is where it would be very interesting to see what the mental motivation process is for the top shooters.

Ask 'em! Quite a number respond to email, etc... Brian is one data point. Jack is another. Several others on this forum. Several others out there. Your temperament may be different, so it doesn't hurt to sample a number of folks. It's actually kind of fascinating to get different view points on this, to me...

I would assume that they would have to be in a continual loop of performance judgment followed by some action to correct the issue. Even if you were the best shooter in the world, there would always be something that you would be working on to take it to the next level. Or at least I think so.

I think that's a good assumption, over all. The mechanics of it probably differ a lot, but pretty much every high performance is in that sort of loop you describe in looking at their performance....

Dave

[BritinUSA]

I've found that both positive and negative attitude seems to harm my shooting. On the days that I've shot at my best, I noticed that I was 'detached' from everything. Not positive or negative, not talking much, just existing in that moment. I didn't think about the stages before or the next stage to come.

After the match, I didn't analyse anything because I couldn't remember that much, all the stages kind of blurred into one another.

[BSeevers]

No, it is.

[Graham Smith]

I don't think that there is a right or wrong answer to this without getting deeply into ones head. For some people, self critique is very helpful, for others, it's the worst thing you can do. And this can vary with your mood and what's been happening with you lately.

I go to a match to get away from things and get my mind off what ever issues have been bugging me. The last thing I need to do is to be overly self critical before, during or after a match. For me, it's about having a good time and "oh, by the way" shooting a little better this week than I did last week.

At a match two weeks ago, I ended up being the first shooter on the first stage. It was a simple stage but for some silly reason, I completely failed to think about it and realize that I was going to have to reload at a specific point or find myself out of ammo at the worst possible place. I almost fell down laughing when I went to slide lock after getting off one shot at the last group of targets. It was either laugh or cry and there was no way I was going to let this spoil my day.

And I smoked the next stage by the way.

[mike cyrwus]

Honesty can be either positive or negative.

How do you choose to talk to yourself?

[CocoBolo]

Racing another sport does relate to shooting. Short Track NASCAR, ARCA, ASA Allpro and my favorite Figure 8. In racing we figured out how to go faster by making one change at a time and measuring the result of the change. Back when I raced we were very technical we adjusted brake balance with a hammer on the metal line, not some cissie contraption called a proportioning valve.

Unfortunatley the shooting sport isn't as simple we have a lot of what I will call ambigious measurements. Back to the original question as it has been morphed. After match yes evaluate what you did well and what you did not do well but try to use the correct measurement. Did you shoot too fast, well what did the timer say the split time was, you can't go by just preception because our tiny brains can't measure time accurately. Did you plaster a no shoot weak hand. Once you have studied the results, done your evaluation take the things you did poorly devise a practice session to work on them, gain competence and confidence and go back to the next match powderful and prepared.

My .02. maybe I got T-Boned too many times in Figure 8.

[Bongo Boy]

I only have this “Champion” self image During the act of competing. The rest of the time I feel like I am far from a champion as I always have this long list of things to improve upon. Is this a strange mental situation to be in? What does everyone else experience?

Judging only from how quickly you've progressed and from your scores at the last HPPS match, I'm finding it hard to argue that your choices aren't working well.

I've always been fussy about semantics, since to me semantics IS language and language in part defines who we are. "Consider that negative does not equal critical"...this is absolutely true, and although in interpersonal relationships the distinction is often meaningless, pointless, futile and destructive, for most other purposes it's useful. While many champions may indeed have high self-esteem, I know there are many examples where this simply isn't the case. What I believe they DO have, though, is the ability to find their own weaknesses or find someone who can find those weaknesses for them, and then take the action needed to minimize them.

In the first of the series by Carlos Castaneda, The Teachings of Don Juan, I believe the shaman don Juan Matus spoke about the need to turn off internal dialog completely through practice. I've often thought about how much internal dialog takes place in my head--being an introvert--and while none of it seems to be negative toward myself or others, it's debilitating in many ways. One way, in particular, is that my own internal dialog causes me to see the "long list of things to improve upon" as a barrier. Rather than simply organizing and categorizing--a classic Western way of dealing with chaos--my mind succumbs to some perception of insurmountable white noise of infinite proportions.

If you have a long list and can manage it and gain satisfaction from each improvement made, then you're doing things right, I think. I also believe it's okay, to a point, to never be satisfied with your improvement. It's not okay, IMO, to never be pleased with it. To never be pleased with improvements great or small suggests to me that the motivation may be ill-guided. We all admire those who are the best at things, and we all want to be admired--this shouldn't be a curse, though.

I had a 'bad' day at the range about a week ago, and was a bit depressed for much of the rest of the day. At no time did I tell myself I stunk as a shooter, nor did I say to myself I am a champion shooter! I will overcome!. I simply thought to myself: that was 250 rds of practice that should have been dry-fired...not live fired. You were not ready for the range. Next visit was much more better.