J-Hon Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 So, looking around BEnos (and exploring options for an open build myself), I've noticed that several options seem to be emerging in regards to alternative platforms for open builds. Just from my memory, I've seen Glocks, CZ's, Tanfos, Sphinx, XDm's, and even a Sig X-5 and a HKP7. While many of these are one-off builds, or "budget" builds, the fact that these guns are out and shooting speaks volumes. On the flipside Glocks, XDm's, and Tanfos offer pretty much everything you'd need for an open gun from the factory, or that's easily acquired from respected vendors. Argument could be made that those particular platforms are competitive even at the higher levels of our sport (Eric G being a shining example). While the de facto standard in open still seems to be a 5" 2011 with a C-More riding on top, other options are certainly presenting themselves. The acceptance of 9mm major has allowed guns that have no chance of ever chambering a 38 super round to be considered as viable. Slide-mount mini-dots allow for optic solutions where a traditions frame mounted CMore is somewhat sketchy (or simply unwanted). The climbing cost for new 2011 builds (and the subsequent "cheaper" routes of the alternatives) is no doubt an issue to many looking to get a taste of the "dark side." I dig the variety, and hope to continue to see it fostered in the future. Innovation is cool, and secretly I enjoy tinkering and exploring new shooting options almost as much as the actual shooting itself (definitely makes the winter pass faster). While only a fool would claim the death of the 2011 platform, I certainly think it has more competition now than it ever has, and this will only grow in the future. How long before it becomes commonplace to see Glocks and other polymer pistols showing up in winners circles? Love to hear the thoughts/opinions from some of you guys who've been around for a while, or even those of you taking the road less traveled already. What platforms do you see really having legs? What is holding everyone back? What do you see as the new "innovation" channels for open division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 How long before it becomes commonplace to see Glocks and other polymer pistols showing up in winners circles? Soon, I hope. A variety of competing manufacturers results in a win-win situation for shooters & USPSA as well as the manufacturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipscjoe Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 So, looking around BEnos (and exploring options for an open build myself), I've noticed that several options seem to be emerging in regards to alternative platforms for open builds. Just from my memory, I've seen Glocks, CZ's, Tanfos, Sphinx, XDm's, and even a Sig X-5 and a HKP7. While many of these are one-off builds, or "budget" builds, the fact that these guns are out and shooting speaks volumes. On the flipside Glocks, XDm's, and Tanfos offer pretty much everything you'd need for an open gun from the factory, or that's easily acquired from respected vendors. Argument could be made that those particular platforms are competitive even at the higher levels of our sport (Eric G being a shining example).While the de facto standard in open still seems to be a 5" 2011 with a C-More riding on top, other options are certainly presenting themselves. The acceptance of 9mm major has allowed guns that have no chance of ever chambering a 38 super round to be considered as viable. Slide-mount mini-dots allow for optic solutions where a traditions frame mounted CMore is somewhat sketchy (or simply unwanted). The climbing cost for new 2011 builds (and the subsequent "cheaper" routes of the alternatives) is no doubt an issue to many looking to get a taste of the "dark side." I dig the variety, and hope to continue to see it fostered in the future. Innovation is cool, and secretly I enjoy tinkering and exploring new shooting options almost as much as the actual shooting itself (definitely makes the winter pass faster). While only a fool would claim the death of the 2011 platform, I certainly think it has more competition now than it ever has, and this will only grow in the future. How long before it becomes commonplace to see Glocks and other polymer pistols showing up in winners circles? Love to hear the thoughts/opinions from some of you guys who've been around for a while, or even those of you taking the road less traveled already. What platforms do you see really having legs? What is holding everyone back? What do you see as the new "innovation" channels for open division? I would agree that there is more variety of manufacture in equiptment today, but IMO there hasn't been much "innovation" in open guns for 15 plus years... No matter how many fancy swiss cheese holes you cut in your gun....what comp you choose....how short you make it......how shiney you polish your mags......etc. etc...... you still have basically the same gun. OPEN gun = Semi Automatic , compensated, red dot, 38 caliber, high cap joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 the less I tinker the better I do The Guys at the top have Skill and dive , Give them something that works and they will be at or near the top. The best equipment helps someone like me more than it help the top guys. If a shooter wants to use something other than the best and you can do good with it thats cool. I have ridden a bicycle to work and gotten great mileage out of it. That does not make the Bicycle the best mode of transportation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I have ridden a bicycle to work and gotten great mileage out of it. That does not make the Bicycle the best mode of transportation. Quote of the day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heckler Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I have ridden a bicycle to work and gotten great mileage out of it. That does not make the Bicycle the best mode of transportation. Quote of the day! +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Everybody forgets about the Caspian double wide gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjanglin Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 caspian is a great way to go, Excellant product, fine people to deal with. I like the Caspian based guns, been shooting them for many years, my Limiterd gun is ~ 14 years old. Jim/Pa Sailors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I think the next big thing will be polimer uppers and lowers. Steel rails, some type of steel breach or slide face and standard barrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I think the next big thing will be polimer uppers and lowers.Steel rails, some type of steel breach or slide face and standard barrels. Could be, crazy as it sounds. The FN 5.7 uses a plastic slide w/ some metal in it (please - keep in mind the forum guidelines when commenting on the 5.7). Scale it up to a 9mm & make it locked breach - might work (or not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 (please - keep in mind the forum guidelines when commenting on the 5.7 Huh? Is there some controversy over the 5.7 here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 One idea that does interest me is that of having one gun with two slides that can shoot three divisions with minimal modification. I have a G35 that I can shoot in Production and Limited with almost no modification. And I can buy a G22 slide, barrel, comp and red dot and I've got an Open gun that uses the same frame and mags. Granted that .40 S&W will never be the state of the art in open, but for about $2K total it certainly is interesting. It isn't going to replace the 2011, by any means, but for the budget minded, it might be a way to diversify without having to get a second job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 so now that we're talking a lighter gun, let's add some weight to it. if money's no object, let's say someone develops a gas operated pistol. i would guess muzzle rise would be much less. i could also see fatter frames, allowing for a 170mm mag to hold in excess of 30+. heck, let's say a 40 rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyScrapin Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 i could also see fatter frames, allowing for a 170mm mag to hold in excess of 30+. heck, let's say a 40 rounder. But I like reloading! Reloading variably makes the game more fun to me. Am I alone on this? Preston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 so now that we're talking a lighter gun, let's add some weight to it. if money's no object, let's say someone develops a gas operated pistol. i would guess muzzle rise would be much less. It's been tried. So far, the designs have left a lot to be desired in terms of reliability... Depending on how it's implemented, it could result in less perceived recoil (probably via lower reciprocating mass). i could also see fatter frames, allowing for a 170mm mag to hold in excess of 30+. heck, let's say a 40 rounder. I kind of doubt this - seems like the only way (given the current distribution of rounds in the column in current race gun mags) would be to go to a triple stack magazine... and there you lose reliability in a big hurry. By and large, over the last 15 years, not much has changed in any sort of radical sense. The lowering of the power factor seems to have brought the CZ-ish guns back into competition a little more, which is cool. But, other than that, a 1911 style platform with a C-More has been the basic pattern for the majority of race guns for a while. Something could come along to change that - but unless there are major rule changes (smaller caliber allowed to make major, PF changed to something even lower, something like that), I don't think you'll see any huge, revolutionary changes. It's also possible that someone might come up with a big technological leap - some kind of new platform that lowers the bore axis, some kind of new trigger system that's even easier to control than a single action trigger, something like that.... If something like that happens, and the platform is viable (ie, 100% reliable, has no features that make it unusable otherwise, etc), you might see a huge exodus to it. Other than that, we see small, incremental improvements here and there, but no huge leaps - things will probably continue in that fashion for some time to come... Just my thoughts, anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Burtchell Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I would think that optics probably have the largest area left for improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Holographic dots. Just a stationary little dot of green or orange or ? light hovering over your slide. You heard it here first. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Holographic dots. Just a stationary little dot of green or orange or ? light hovering over your slide. You heard it here first. Jim I would sign up for that ...Then I may be able to find the dot weak hand Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 SV and STI have gone to the metal grips making the Caspian platform basically the same. To bad mags for the Caspian don't hold as many rounds as the 2011 guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Gonsalves Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Holographic dots. Just a stationary little dot of green or orange or ? light hovering over your slide. You heard it here first. Jim I would sign up for that ...Then I may be able to find the dot weak hand Jim A BIG +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backroad Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 (please - keep in mind the forum guidelines when commenting on the 5.7 Huh? Is there some controversy over the 5.7 here? I'm in. What's wrong with the 5.7? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefish Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 How long before it becomes commonplace to see Glocks and other polymer pistols showing up in winners circles? Soon, I hope. A variety of competing manufacturers results in a win-win situation for shooters & USPSA as well as the manufacturers. David Sevigny and Jessie Abbate won major/world steel matches back in 2006 and 2007 shooting open Glocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Hadnt even thought about optics. How about a dual optics system, glasses that have a heads up type system that is tied to sometype of alignment device on the pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 (please - keep in mind the forum guidelines when commenting on the 5.7 Huh? Is there some controversy over the 5.7 here? I'm in. What's wrong with the 5.7? Google it.... (and then leave the discussion around it off the forum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Hadnt even thought about optics.How about a dual optics system, glasses that have a heads up type system that is tied to sometype of alignment device on the pistol. With MEMS inertial sensors, the technology exists. You could have a wireless interface from the gun to the display processor to tell it where it is pointing and where it is going. One problem is bore sighting the gun to the display. Since there is nothing in a fixed position (hands and head) you would have to do an alignment much more often than you do with your old-fashioned red dot. And the real problem is safety. You only see where the bullet is going to wind up. You are not necessarily looking at the path that the bullet will take . What may have some merit in our sport would be a gyro-stabilized dot, all contained on the pistol. It could make shooting on the move a bit more easy. There are some engineering issues in size, power, etc. And a system like that would probably cost more than 50 primers Later, Chuck PS: I did about 7 years in development of head up display systems for military aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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