Chris Keen Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) Basic math says 0.0000 is absolutely ZERO. No, it doesn't. Zero is the number that falls between one and negative one. Zero has a value. hehe. But Zero points is still Zero points. He didnt score any points, and his HF was zero, so how can he get ANY stage points whatsoever? 9.2.2.1 A competitor’s score is calculated by adding the highest valuestipulated number of hits per target, minus penalties, divided by the total time (recorded to two decimal places) taken by the competitor to complete the course of fire, to arrive at a hit factor. The overall stage results are factored by awarding the competitor with the highest hit factor the maximum points available for the course of fire, with all other competitors ranked relatively below the stage winner. 9.5.6 The minimum score for a course of fire or string will be zero. There was no "highest hit factor". The hit factor was 0.0000 How is that a HIGH HIT FACTOR? I'd call that a LOWEST HIT FACTOR, and according to 9.5.6 give the competitor a score of ZERO. He didn't earn the points ............. why are you giving him points he didn't earn????? Edited October 23, 2009 by Chris Keen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 The minimum "score" is a zero, therefore zero is a score..........Full stage points! So by your logic (and Flexmoney's) a competitor shoots CM 99-21 "Mini-Mart" in 2.99 seconds, with 5 A's & 7 misses, and because he is the only shooter in L-10 at that match he gets 60 points (MAX POINTS for that stage) and therefore shoots a 100% on that classifier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I remember this from RO class --- where they taught us how to score a match with a pencil and a piece of paper..... The winning competitor on a stage doesn't get the max points. His hit factor, like all other competitor's hit factor is divided by the High Hit factor, then multiplied by the number of points available on the stage. (Z/Z = 1 x Y for the stage winner, where Z represents both his hit factor and the HHF; the formula looks like this for anyone else: X/Z x Y = stage points earned by the competitor, where X is the competitor's hit factor, Z is the HHF and Y is the total stage points available). By all practical purposes, that's the same as getting all the stage points, but the stage winner's score is still calculated the same as everyone else's; in the case of a zero on the stage, the stage winner gets no stage points for that same reason..... So in this case --- 0/0 x Y stage points still = 0 points awarded for the stage...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 My head hurts .......... I'm going to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Basic math says 0.0000 is absolutely ZERO. No, it doesn't. Zero is the number that falls between one and negative one. Zero has a value. hehe. No, it doesn't. Zero is the concept of the lack of something. It's a place holder to make higher mathmatical functions work, nothing more (pun intended). 10 shooters in the same division 0 a stage, the stage for all purposes didn't occur for that division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecichlid Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I hate word problems. If shooter "A" leaves the start position at 12:00:00.00, shoots at seven targets (all head shots) and gets three in the ear, fires his last shot at 12:00:10.54 what is his hit factor? By the way I can zero a stage with the best of them, just look at the scores for stage 16 of the Open/Production Nats. Joe W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapzter Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 So in this case --- 0/0 x Y stage points still = 0 points awarded for the stage...... So what is zero devided by zero? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Santiago Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 So in this case --- 0/0 x Y stage points still = 0 points awarded for the stage...... So what is zero devided by zero? "undefined" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) So in this case --- 0/0 x Y stage points still = 0 points awarded for the stage...... So what is zero devided by zero? Edited October 23, 2009 by North Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 That is good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 No, it doesn't. Zero is the concept of the lack of something. It's a place holder to make higher mathmatical functions work, nothing more (pun intended). Umm...no. Zero is not a concept. Go stand in the corner with Keen. Zero is an integer. It's the highest non-negative integer. The rule reads that the "highest hit factor" gets all the points for the stage, right? Was there any hit factor higher than the shooter that got the zero? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 A shooter is the only shooter in a division. The shooter eats a few penalties on a speed shoot (40pt cof) and earns a zero hit factor. The zero hit factor is the highest hit factor for the stage. Basic math class tells us that zero has a value, it's just not very high. So, should the shooter get points for winning the stage? 9.2.2.1 A competitor’s score is calculated by adding the highest value stipulated number of hits per target, minus penalties, divided by the total time (recorded to two decimal places) taken by the competitor to complete the course of fire, to arrive at a hit factor. The overall stage results are factored by awarding the competitor with the highest hit factor the maximum points available for the course of fire, with all other competitors ranked relatively below the stage winner. 9.5.6 The minimum score for a course of fire or string will be zero. It must already be cold up north. Someone has wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much time on his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 No, it doesn't. Zero is the concept of the lack of something. It's a place holder to make higher mathmatical functions work, nothing more (pun intended). Umm...no. Zero is not a concept. Go stand in the corner with Keen. Zero is an integer. It's the highest non-negative integer. The rule reads that the "highest hit factor" gets all the points for the stage, right? Was there any hit factor higher than the shooter that got the zero? "sniff, sniff" Whats that I smell...........oh, its a Cigar with a faint smell of beer. Its Flex sitting back smokin and drinking with a smile on his face as he reads this thread Flyin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Zero is an integer. It's the highest non-negative integer. Um.. no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 No, it doesn't. Zero is the concept of the lack of something. It's a place holder to make higher mathmatical functions work, nothing more (pun intended). Umm...no. Zero is not a concept. Go stand in the corner with Keen. Zero is an integer. It's the highest non-negative integer. The rule reads that the "highest hit factor" gets all the points for the stage, right? Was there any hit factor higher than the shooter that got the zero? Um, no, Chris and I are correct. It is an integer, it's also considered an even number, but depending on the math being done Zero can mean many things. In this instance, zero represents the lack of any points. For it to mean there is something there would mean everyone starts off with at the very least a fraction of a point. If you haven't shot, you haven't colleted anything, not even a fraction of a point. If you shoot and lose more points than you collected... nil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_(number) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Zero is an integer. It's the highest non-negative integer. Um.. no opps. How about "lowest" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 The game is afoot! No, it doesn't. Zero is the concept of the lack of something. It's a place holder to make higher mathmatical functions work, nothing more (pun intended). Umm...no. Zero is not a concept. Go stand in the corner with Keen. Zero is an integer. It's the highest non-negative integer. The rule reads that the "highest hit factor" gets all the points for the stage, right? Was there any hit factor higher than the shooter that got the zero? Um, no, Chris and I are correct. It is an integer, it's also considered an even number, but depending on the math being done Zero can mean many things. In this instance, zero represents the lack of any points. For it to mean there is something there would mean everyone starts off with at the very least a fraction of a point. If you haven't shot, you haven't colleted anything, not even a fraction of a point. If you shoot and lose more points than you collected... nil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_(number) I understand and expect that from Keen. He is an Army puke and all. Your AF...no excuse! (and...what happened to your "it's just a concept" stance... ) In this instance, ... zero represents IS the value of the shooter's hit factor. It is not a place holder (digit), it is not undefined (nil), it is not a concept. It is a value. Plot the shooter's hit factor on this number line: The ability to do so, proves the "value". In this case, zero is the highest value. The shooter with the highest hit factor gets the points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 The shooter with the highest hit factor gets the points. Which would be zero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 It must already be cold up north. Someone has wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much time on his hands. Charles...I let it go for nearly 3 weeks now. Something had to be done!!! LOL This affects* the score of one of our first ever IPSC National Champions (well...sorta). OK...maybe it makes for a good trivia question sometime. [*affect or effect?] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 The shooter with the highest hit factor gets the points. Which would be zero Um...no. The shooter with the highest hit factor get the MAXIMUM points for the stage. In this case, 40pts. Try to keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 The minimum "score" is a zero, therefore zero is a score..........Full stage points! So by your logic (and Flexmoney's) a competitor shoots CM 99-21 "Mini-Mart" in 2.99 seconds, with 5 A's & 7 misses, and because he is the only shooter in L-10 at that match he gets 60 points (MAX POINTS for that stage) and therefore shoots a 100% on that classifier? His classifier will not be posted since he had a zero HF. His stage points for the match will be 60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 It must already be cold up north. Someone has wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much time on his hands. Charles...I let it go for nearly 3 weeks now. Something had to be done!!! LOL This affects* the score of one of our first ever IPSC National Champions (well...sorta). OK...maybe it makes for a good trivia question sometime. [*affect or effect?] Ummm..... You're using the wrong rulebook, if you're concerned about the IPSC National Championship..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murkish Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Ummm..... You're using the wrong rulebook, if you're concerned about the IPSC National Championship..... Okay, using the proper rulebook and assuming comstock scoring: 9.2.2.1 A competitor's score is calculated by adding the highest value stipulated number of hits per target, minus penalties, divided by the total time (recorded to two decimal places) taken by the competitor to complete the course of fire, to arrive at a hit factor. The overall stage results are factored by awarding the competitor with the highest hit factor the maximum points available for the course of fire, with all other competitors ranked relatively below the stage winner. Note, it does not contain the wording "If the highest hit factor is zero, then no points are awarded." If 10 people in the same division had a zero hit factor and that was the highest hit factor for that stage, then they would each be awarded the maximum points available for the course of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 It must already be cold up north. Someone has wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much time on his hands. Charles...I let it go for nearly 3 weeks now. Something had to be done!!! LOL This affects* the score of one of our first ever IPSC National Champions (well...sorta). OK...maybe it makes for a good trivia question sometime. [*affect or effect?] So are you inviting me to say something political so you can shut this down??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adweisbe Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) Okay, using the proper rulebook and assuming comstock scoring: 9.2.2.1 A competitor's score is calculated by adding the highest value stipulated number of hits per target, minus penalties, divided by the total time (recorded to two decimal places) taken by the competitor to complete the course of fire, to arrive at a hit factor. The overall stage results are factored by awarding the competitor with the highest hit factor the maximum points available for the course of fire, with all other competitors ranked relatively below the stage winner. Note, it does not contain the wording "If the highest hit factor is zero, then no points are awarded." If 10 people in the same division had a zero hit factor and that was the highest hit factor for that stage, then they would each be awarded the maximum points available for the course of fire. The rules specifies "The competitor." Looking only at 9.2.2.1 (and pretending no other rules apply) that leaves the result undefined in the situation where the set of hit factors contains no hit factor higher than another. I am with Flex on this one. The quantity of stage points is defined independently from the competitor's hit factor. 0 is the highest hit factor in this scenario. Edited October 23, 2009 by adweisbe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now