Solutions for the 43oz Single Stack?

[Bill Nesbitt]

Weigh your magazines. The old CMC mags I have are 2.55 oz. and the old 8 round Wilsons are 2.20 oz. Just a magazine change might give you what you want.

[z40acp]

Hey Flex, what if you get a RO that determines running without sights to be a competitive advantage?

[G-ManBart]

I'm really surprised your Trojan weighs that much. Mine is pretty similar to yours except I went with the Techwell magwell and grips. The SA magwell/MSH is a bit heavy as are your grips. I'm going off memory (will check in a bit) is either 40 or 41oz with an empty Wilson mag.

[Duane Thomas]

I would rather replace springs at regular recommended intervals. 2000-3000 rds for the recoil spring and 5000 for the mainspring.

I don't go for the recommended intervals approach, I base how often I replace my recoil spring on how much it's become compressed. As to the mainspring, I have a little over 30k through my most heavily used single stack .45 (some of you will no doubt laugh at that ), plus innumerable dry fires, all on the same Wolff 17-pound mainspring, I've never replaced the spring, and I've never had a misfire.

[Duane Thomas]

We need more information on the way the gun is set up. I use a series 70 Colt, with steel mainspring housing and mag well, it's not even close to the max weight.

The biggest area that can cause problems, I find, is whether or not the gun has a National Match frame which adds about two ounces to the gun over a standard frame. (Despite asking the question repeatedly on these forums, I have yet to find anyone who can tell what exactly is a "National Match" frame and how it differs from a standard frame, what are the dimensional differences, and where they're located, to create the weight difference). I have a Wilson single stack that has adjustable sights, an ambi thumb safety, a full-length guide rod and a mag funnel, all the goodies, and it weighs not even 40 ounces. On the other hand, on something that runs a National Match frame like a Nighthawk Talon or a Les Baer, I find that in order to make IDPA's 41 ounce weight limit I have to run the shorty guide rod.

[irq23]

I'm really surprised your Trojan weighs that much. Mine is pretty similar to yours except I went with the Techwell magwell and grips. The SA magwell/MSH is a bit heavy as are your grips. I'm going off memory (will check in a bit) is either 40 or 41oz with an empty Wilson mag.

His is probably stainless...

[RickB]

, I find, is whether or not the gun has a National Match frame which adds about two ounces to the gun over a standard frame. (Despite asking the question repeatedly on these forums, I have yet to find anyone who can tell what exactly is a "National Match" frame and how it differs from a standard frame, what are the dimensional differences, and where they're located, to create the weight difference).

"National" Match is one better than Match. Consider it a frame that goes to eleven. Seriously, there are National Match specs and dimensions, but they're based on modified U.S. Mil Specs (National Match pistols were made from standard U.S.G.I. frames), and there's no material added, so any "match" frame that weighs two ounces more than a stock Colt frame is going to have non-standard dimensions. Modern "National Match" parts are very unlikely to conform to true NM specs, and the term has generally come to mean any part that needs to be fitted.

[Duane Thomas]

Thanks, Rick. I'd still be very curious to know exactly where that two ounces is being added - and why. Maybe one day....

[steel1212]

Not to hijack but I'm curious if anybody has been weighed at matches? If so was it close to what you weighed it at? With something that has to be X amount they need to settle on a brand of scales so everybody can get close.

[Duane Thomas]

I was weighed at the last Washington State IDPA Championships. Of course, I was shooting a Glock at the time....

[Brian Gonsalves]

Not to hijack but I'm curious if anybody has been weighed at matches? If so was it close to what you weighed it at? With something that has to be X amount they need to settle on a brand of scales so everybody can get close.

Hey Corey, my gun was weighed at the California State IDPA Championship this last weekend, and has been for the last few years. I purchased a certified check weight to check my scale and I take it with me to any match that is going to weigh guns. That way if there is a problem, I can pull out the weight and check their scale.

[steel1212]

Not to hijack but I'm curious if anybody has been weighed at matches? If so was it close to what you weighed it at? With something that has to be X amount they need to settle on a brand of scales so everybody can get close.

Hey Corey, my gun was weighed at the California State IDPA Championship this last weekend, and has been for the last few years. I purchased a certified check weight to check my scale and I take it with me to any match that is going to weigh guns. That way if there is a problem, I can pull out the weight and check their scale.

That isn't a bad idea. I've shot a lot of majors with the SS the past 2 years and have yet to be weighed and I'm just wondering if I'll get weighed on a bathroom scale or not :-)

[G-ManBart]

Not to hijack but I'm curious if anybody has been weighed at matches? If so was it close to what you weighed it at? With something that has to be X amount they need to settle on a brand of scales so everybody can get close.

Hey Corey, my gun was weighed at the California State IDPA Championship this last weekend, and has been for the last few years. I purchased a certified check weight to check my scale and I take it with me to any match that is going to weigh guns. That way if there is a problem, I can pull out the weight and check their scale.

That isn't a bad idea. I've shot a lot of majors with the SS the past 2 years and have yet to be weighed and I'm just wondering if I'll get weighed on a bathroom scale or not :-)

They weighed guns at the Western States SS Classic in 2008....not sure about the 09 match.

The problem with bringing another scale is that it would be like bringing your own chronograph. They'd say "that's nice, but it's not the official match scale, so it doesn't matter what it reads". R,

Edited October 16, 2009 by G-ManBart

[steel1212]

Not to hijack but I'm curious if anybody has been weighed at matches? If so was it close to what you weighed it at? With something that has to be X amount they need to settle on a brand of scales so everybody can get close.

Hey Corey, my gun was weighed at the California State IDPA Championship this last weekend, and has been for the last few years. I purchased a certified check weight to check my scale and I take it with me to any match that is going to weigh guns. That way if there is a problem, I can pull out the weight and check their scale.

That isn't a bad idea. I've shot a lot of majors with the SS the past 2 years and have yet to be weighed and I'm just wondering if I'll get weighed on a bathroom scale or not :-)

They weighed guns at the Western States SS Classic in 2008....not sure about the 09 match.

The problem with bringing another scale is that it would be like bringing your own chronograph. They'd say "that's nice, but it's not the official match scale, so it doesn't matter what it reads". R,

I think he meant just the check weights. I would want to use them just to prove the point even if it didn't go in my favor....what are they going to do, put me in Open then DQ me :-)

Edited October 16, 2009 by steel1212

[Brian Gonsalves]

I don't bring a scale. I bring a Certified Check Weight to check their scale.

[Loves2Shoot]

S&A Magwell w/straight backstrap - There is over 2 oz right there.

[chirpy]

Thanks for the info ChuckS...I knew that...I got a little ahead of myself on that one...my bad!

Whose to say that milling the barrel dia. and some material out of the slide is a "competitive advantage" when others are recommending drilling the back of grips and MSH, or removing that hunk of metal in the frame window and etc. or whatever to make weight?

Richard

PS: By the way...the rule you quoted talked about "...thumb rest or anything that could be used a such to help control the pistol" but they allo Brown and other safetys which could, in a stretch, with a "High Thumb" hold be used to control the pistol!

JMHO

Edited October 16, 2009 by chirpy

[Dan Sierpina]

They weighed guns at the Western States SS Classic in 2008....not sure about the 09 match.

They weighed the guns at Chrono, in 2009. They also took a look at my mag pads prior to chrono, and the box. I'm using Wilson-Rogers mags, with the extended pad, cut, of course, to fit the box. Which they also checked.

[BillD]

Not to hijack but I'm curious if anybody has been weighed at matches? If so was it close to what you weighed it at? With something that has to be X amount they need to settle on a brand of scales so everybody can get close.

I was weighed at the Ohio State. You would have been too, if you had shot SS.

I was 39.something. with a Series 1 Kimber, S&A slimline magwell, carbon creation thin grips, GI recoil setup and a Wilson mag.

[Steve J]

Thanks for the info ChuckS...I knew that...I got a little ahead of myself on that one...my bad!

Whose to say that milling the barrel dia. and some material out of the slide is a "competitive advantage" when others are recommending drilling the back of grips and MSH, or removing that hunk of metal in the frame window and etc. or whatever to make weight?

Richard

PS: By the way...the rule you quoted talked about "...thumb rest or anything that could be used a such to help control the pistol" but they allo Brown and other safetys which could, in a stretch, with a "High Thumb" hold be used to control the pistol!

JMHO

Removing weight from a frame that's heavier than milspec is completely different than lightening the slide. Lightening the slide changes how the gun cycles.

The thumb rest issue is beyond currently accepted ergonomic improvements. The line has been drawn there. No "gas pedals" for your support hand thumb.

[bbbean]

Not to hijack but I'm curious if anybody has been weighed at matches? If so was it close to what you weighed it at? With something that has to be X amount they need to settle on a brand of scales so everybody can get close.

The nice thing about scales is that there are standards. It doesn't matter what brand you use - you can check your scale's accuracy by weighing a verified test weight and it's either accurate or not.

I knew my gun would be checked when I went to the Single Stack Nats, so I checked it out on the local drug task force scale (my shooting buddy is a narc), and both it and the SSN scale verified my Ed Brown Kobra with a full length tungsten guide rod and Ed Brown magwell at 42.7. Perfect.

[want2race]

I wanted a very light SS. I started by milling out the metal in the frame as mentioned earlier then added: Deep cocking serrations, deep ball radius scallop, flat top (don't like Tri's), Filled down FP stop, standard extractor instead of a AFTEC, plastic 2011 mainspring housing, aluminum mag well, home made micarta grips, 1911 STI gunsmith blank trigger, reshaped grip and checkered 20lpi (removes metal, thus weight). Two things I have not done, that could be done is lighten the bushing and switch back to a GI hollow guide rod, I like the Dawson tool less rod but will switch to the Briley Al soon.

With an aluminum base pad on the mag, it weighs 39.5. It doesn't sound light but I was able to add/remove weight to make it balance how I wanted it.

[HRider]

We need more information on the way the gun is set up. I use a series 70 Colt, with steel mainspring housing and mag well, it's not even close to the max weight.

The biggest area that can cause problems, I find, is whether or not the gun has a National Match frame which adds about two ounces to the gun over a standard frame. (Despite asking the question repeatedly on these forums, I have yet to find anyone who can tell what exactly is a "National Match" frame and how it differs from a standard frame, what are the dimensional differences, and where they're located, to create the weight difference). I have a Wilson single stack that has adjustable sights, an ambi thumb safety, a full-length guide rod and a mag funnel, all the goodies, and it weighs not even 40 ounces. On the other hand, on something that runs a National Match frame like a Nighthawk Talon or a Les Baer, I find that in order to make IDPA's 41 ounce weight limit I have to run the shorty guide rod.

I don't know where the differences are, but my completely unmolested Colt National Match (1968) weighs 36oz and my stock Colt Goverenment (1931) weighs 35oz, both with their factory magazines. I know that there are a lot of varibles here, arched mainspring housing versus flat; rib, sights, ejection port and lightening cuts in slide on the NM vs. standard sights and slide. I was surprised that they were so close. By contrast, my Colt series 70 with S&A flat mainspring housing, Steel full length guide rod, Ed Brown button on stock mag catch, Wilson beavertail, 1949-52 Colt replacement slide, with a fixed rear and Brazos fiber optic front sights, and Coco bolo grips weighs 40oz with a Wilson mag.

Hurley

[Duane Thomas]

That sounds about right. Really, in my experience, IF the gun does not feature a National Match frame, making weight with a single stack .45 is not hard, either in USPSA or IDPA.

[want2race]

All the NM frames I've seen have a VERY wide trigger and that PITA spring and depressor on the sear (extra two parts that NO other 1911 has). My work gun is a NM and EGW was the only source I found for an aftermarket trigger that I could make lighter.