Rocket Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 My match performance sucks compared to how I shoot in practice. On classifiers it can be as much as a 30 - 40% drop in Hf . I was just curious how everyone else does and what are some things I could work on to improve this spread. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Oh, MAN...! Can I QUOTE you on that inquiry??!! My greatest frustration in shooting right now IS precisely that (and haven't I ranted overmuch about it, anyway?!) I go from an "A-/B+" in practice (usually) to barely a "C" (or maybe a high "C") in league matches. I think it's still the pressure of the timer (RUSHING!!), and the every-bullet-counts-so-don't-screw-up-or-you're-gonna-lose-ten-points-each-time-you-do pressure (HUMILIATION!!). Solution and Diagnosis: Adopt some form of Detachment. See the bigger picture of what you're doing in relation to your goals. When you see the details of the distance between you and your goals, you'll know exactly what to practice on if you have weak spots. Detachment = Professionalism. Believe me, I'm telling myself this right now as much as I am to anyone else. But fortunately, I got back into this intermediate learning zone again this week (after several weeks of self-mutilation and frustration) and "saw" things so clearly it was scary. And even though what I "saw" related to small mistakes I was making, I was absolutely thrilled to have finally SEEN them and IDENTIFIED them so clearly and accurately. Prescription: Just more practice. More lead downrange. More focus. More detachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Being new, I'm still doing low 'D' work None of the clubs I go to, have classifiers for practice, at least when I've been there. Some Bill drills sometimes - I'd really like to have a place to proactice these regularly - now I just use the local matches for practice Odd, when I shoot trap, I do better in matches than practice, and I know others (most) that do the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 My draw slows down in matches but my splits and transitions stay about the same. It's a mental thang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 ...and what are some things I could work on to improve this spread Slow down the shooting and watch the front sight. Sounds simple enough. But, it gets screwed up at every level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 In all the years of shooting pistol, I have only known one person who could shoot the same score on Race Day that they could in practice. If I am on my game, it is about 6%. Most of it comes on targets with hardcover and/or NS cover. Straight up speed shoots is about the same, the other time adder is not maximizing your movement into and out of shooting areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket Posted November 11, 2003 Author Share Posted November 11, 2003 Sig Lady I think we suffer from the same affliction only for me it's even more profound and frustrating. In practice I'll shoot mostly Master level or even a few GM scores on some drills , but in a match it's B- / c+ land. I think I get to worked up over matches. Things tighten up and I loose my fine motor skills. My index goes to sh$% and I don't seem to have the right focus for the right shot. I really enjoy practicing though and even when I hack up something in a match, I will go practice it till I get it right. There was this stage in the area 8 match called High Standards which I blew with about a 1.8 Hf and several mikes. TJ won the stage with something around 9. I've practiced this drill a bunch and now do it in the 7.5 range which would have got me around 5 th place in the stage right up there with the likes of Erik Lund and Frank Garcia. Of coarse this doesn't mean a whole lot, but I just wondered how common it was to have this type of apparent performance anxiety. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Rocket-- The tack I took about a month or so ago was to simply practice over and over again some of the things that give me grief in performance and to practice over and over again certain types of target stages specifically. Boy, whatta difference. I mean I have made quick and visible progress on literally all the things I have been practicing that diligently. It just takes time and ammo. What all this diligence DID do, however, was to clearly outline the extent of the remaining hurdles yet to leap, and I have my work cut out for me, as they say. But having found a fer-shurr way to LEAP the hurdles, I now run down the road leaping hurdles... successfully... after due diligence at the range twice a week. Progress... Don't it feel GOOD sometimes, though??!! Ah..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Rocket: Wow, you sound like a major breakthrough in the making. Between my draw slowing down and my "almost the same" transitions and splits, I probably lose about the same percentage as tightloop. I certainly don't think it is much more than 5%. But holy cow, 30-40 per cent? Just out of curiosity, do you choke up on local matches or is it just major matches like an Area match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket Posted November 11, 2003 Author Share Posted November 11, 2003 Ron , I guess my biggest disappointment came recently at the Ga State match. I spent a good bit of time working up for that match, but didn't have time to get comfortable with some of the things I was doing in practice at the local match level. I have not shot a local match for several weeks and maybe thats the problem. I need to shoot more local matches. I'm going to shoot two this weekend and try not to get too worked up about it. I feel like I'm ready to break through , I just need to go out and shoot somewhat near my capability. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 All the above comments are very pertinent. Let me add one more from personal experience, which may or may not apply to you. I think that many of us have selective memory as to our true level of consistent performance. I know, for instance, that I will remember that one 0.8 sec draw I did three weeks ago, and ignore the 159 1.3's I did in the rest of that session, plus the sessions before and after. Ditto the .11 splits I did blowing rounds into the berm, as opposed to the more typical .15's I usually do, and the 0.2's I do when I actually try to hit the target. If all your practice runs are consistent, then I think that that reflects your true level of accomplishment, not one, anomalous single time performance. And, of course, drills and practice are not match conditions. I once shot a offhand 25 yd. five shot 0.4" group with my Limited gun with match ammo. Took me a minute a shot. Even if I could do it again, consistently, or could just come close, that still isn't something that I will use directly in a match. I am hoping to see progress in practice that translates into progress in matches and in classification, but I gotta keep telling myself that what I need to monitor is my baseline level of performance, not the heady highs or the bum out lows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Rocket, try shooting a classifer as the very first shots of a practice session.... then shoot it again after practice. I think you'll find your cold first shoot more closely mirrors the performance you've been getting at a match (just a guess). After a couple hundred rounds to warm up, and maybe third time through, obviously its easier to blaze a classifier, while cold is a better indicator of possible match performance. Anyway, I have the opposite problem..... at local club matches, or practice, I usually have difficulty with classifer like skill sets, such as weak hand, virginia count, standards, etc... so my classification has been stuck at B for years now. But at major matches that are mostly freestyle, run 'n gun, I can usually finish at 85% or higher - I finished 94% at the OK Sectional, as a B shooter, and usually at least shoot into A class, if not M on rarer ocassion..... Good news is I'm finally getting my A card. Guess I'll have to actually practice weak hand now if I want to make M..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Another thing that can screw you up is overconfidence. I went into a GSSF match once expecting to win because I'd been practicing and kicking butt on the stages in practice. Got to the match and forgot to execute on the fundamentals. You still gotta aim, even if you know you can hit the targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 One concept that's often overlooked is just how much good experience it takes to merge the gap between training and competition. And the effort and commitment behind that... be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 another overlooked issue is, how do you fairly measure and compare *performance in practice* and *performance in match*? We do not encounter classifier stages a lot any more in big matches. When we do, I suggest the fair comparison be between *average of 10 runs in practice* and your match run or, possibly even better, *worst run in practice* vs. *match run*. Your worst run, the one that you need to worry about, is probably more indicative of your true performance than anything else. By the *average* measure, I shoot as well in a big match as I shoot in practice. When I started IPSC about 10 y ago, my match runs were always much worse than that average practice run. That has gone away. My problem now is the many bad runs that still go into this average calculation. But hell, if you measure practice performance by your best run, you're doomed because your match performance is always going to be worse than your practice perfromance. Just don't kill yourself over this, you're just measuring wrong! --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Ron Avery used to tell his students: 'Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket Posted November 12, 2003 Author Share Posted November 12, 2003 One concept that's often overlooked is just how much good experience it takes to merge the gap between training and competition. And the effort and commitment behind that...be Yes , I'll give it some time , it's just that I've been working my tail off and maybe I'm a little too eager to make something happen rather than letting it happen. Your worst run, the one that you need to worry about, is probably more indicative of your true performance than anything else.--Detlef I see your point but my worst run is usually my first , then my performance improves to a point where it is relatively stable. When I say my performance in practice is usually Master level on some drill , that's an average run that I can reproduce again and again. It's what I expect to be able to do at a relatively comfortable pace. The problem I've been having is just getting to the level of my practice par times. If I let it fly with reckless abandon , sometimes I'll connect, but I would never expect to be able to do that on demand in a match. Ironically, some of the best match performances I've had are when I see something for the first time and have little preconceived notions about what I should do it in. Interesting. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 See what you need to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 How many of you guys actually track your par time performance on a variety of drills on a monthly basis, such as transitions near to far, transitions far to near, draw on an 8 inch plate, the turning draw, reloads, etc., as Matt Burkett suggests in his manual. I have been tracking a few basic drills that I shoot each month for three years. I know exactly what my par times are in practice, do you? When I learned exactly what I can do, and began to trust that I can do it when I must, with the realization that what I did was good enough, improvement came quickly. Am I "there" yet? Nope, it's a long road. But I have learned that if I don't analyze my own shooting (skill set and temperament) without emotion, and subsequently come up with a plan for improvement, I will flounder and fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket Posted November 12, 2003 Author Share Posted November 12, 2003 it's a long road. But I have learned that if I don't analyze my own shooting (skill set and temperament) without emotion, and subsequently come up with a plan for improvement, I will flounder and fail.Ron Ankeny Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Generally speaking, I perform better at matches than training. In training I try to find my limits and pass them (throw mikes, or fumble reloads etc.). In matches I am more careful and focus a lot more. Stress has a very positive effect on me. I doubt I'm the only one who has that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limitless13 Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 Here's what I did, this may seem way out of the ordinary, but it worked wonders. My roommate and I are fairly close, heck we have the same name. He plans on starting shooting, but atm he doesn't have the funds. When I dry-fire, which is a lot, he'll stand there and critique every single move I make. First, however, I'll try to put up the best times I can for that scenario. (FYI I have a 5 foot rack setup in my garage specifically designed for my airsoft ipsc training.) I take the best time within reason, and I try to shoot that again. If at some point I fail to reach that time limit, my roommate shoots me with his airsoft gun. ( yea i know sadistic, but it works ) Then we look at what was slowing me down, reload, draw, split, whatever... (Another side-note, I have a cheapo digital camera that I have set up right next to me that can record 3 minutes worth of film. Great tool!) Once that has been figured out, I do 10 of that drill. Rince and repeat. There have been days where the only part of my garage not covered in little white bb's was where I was standing. Not to mention I looked like I had chicken pox all over my chest. Now, most of you are asking, "Why in the blue blazes would he want to be shot that much?" Well, it's easy, I don't, which forces me to focus to a whole nether level. And then I at least have some "pressure" that I unconsciously put on myself. This is how I feel it will be in a match. (No I haven't shot a match yet, but plan to as soon as everything thaws a little.) All this drill does for me is place some mental pressure on me to perform. Sorry, a little winded.. but I'm done. KS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 21, 2003 Share Posted December 21, 2003 L13 I get what you are saying, but if I had a bud who even hinted about shooting me with an airsoft gun, he better be able to run like Carl Lewis, if he shoots me for any reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistral404 Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 My average percentage actually went up at the Area 2 Match by 10 points. My limited percentage was right at 40% I shoot the entire match for a 50% average. I actually had some stages in the sixties and seventies. Three things happened. 1. Got a Limited Gun that runs 2. Took a lesson from Matt, and plenty of advice from Don Golembieski 3. Practiced, Tuesday Night Steel and a Friday morning for fundatmentals. The best single piece of advice came from Don, if you know where your front sight is when you pull the trigger you do not have to wait and see if you hit the target--the infamous 'calling your shot' advice. I may be slower now, but i get a lot few Mikes. Matt's class was a real eye opening about some stuff. Most importantly, you are really not shooting against anyone else but yourself. You are in control of your shooting so do not think about "will I look good to everyone who is watching' or ' i really need to impress everyone with how fast I am'. I started the match slow, making sure of my shots before I started to speed up. Finally, on Fridays I shoot about 100 rounds of just fundatmentals. 1. Draw and shoot one shot, 2. Sight the target, punch the buzzer and fire, 3. Draw and shoot 2 per taget. etc. Just fundamental stuff to make sure I have the basic skills reviewed and practiced. That is how I have improved my match scores. BTW: A couple months before Area 2, I shot Area 4 so poorly I was ready to take up golf. Luckily, those three things happened and made all the difference in the world. I am a more confident shooter now. And my scores improved dramatically. If you can not afford a lesson, buy Matt's DVD # 4 and follow the directions. It is really quite good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistral404 Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 PS; Sorry about the poor spelling, it is too early in the morning for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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