Cigar Guy Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 This thread is derived from the similar Production Division questions thread here in the Rules forum. Some of the competitors may not be aware of significant differences between the IPSC and the USPSA rule books. What was okay on Saturday, Oct. 3 in Ohio may not be okay on Sunday, Oct. 4. For any shooters, the provisions of Rule 8.7 apply. Briefly, you may not take a loaded sight picture, take an unloaded sight picture on more than one target, or have any firearm part or other object used as a sighting aid during the walkthrough. One warning applies for the loaded sight picture, mandatory procedurals for the others. Each division has its own issues as well: Open shooters will have a slightly easier time making the 160 PF level, but may face a problem with bullet weight in that there is a 120 grain minimum. If a major load makes 165 PF, but with a 115 grain bullet, it is unsafe ammunition under IPSC rules and must be withdrawn. A Limited (IPSC Standard) shooter with a 165 < 170 PF load is minor under IPSC rules, so if you are playing it close to the edge, you might bump the powder measure a bit. Your gun must also fit in the box, or you are in Open. The Dawson Ice Magwell may push your gun out of the box. Production shooters with different color or refinished guns (not just pretty blue painted slides) will find themselves in Open Division. USPSA rules allow cosmetic refinishing, but IPSC rules do not. No pinstriping either, in case you were so inclined. Glock 34 & 35 models are not Production guns under IPSC rules. These are just a few of the problems I saw based on common combinations. Feel free to add other common issues as you see them, or ask questions about a particular firearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 I hope this doesn't turn into another us v. them..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cigar Guy Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 I hope this doesn't turn into another us v. them..... It better not. That is specifically prohibited by the forum rules here. The purpose of the thread is to inform shooters who are used to USPSA rules what they will face if shooting in the IPSC World Shoot qualifier match on Sunday Oct. 4. The rules are what they are. They only time they are open for comment is during the revision period when proposed changes are posted and comments invited on the appropriate web site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Here is the link to the IPSC rule book (pdf file): http://www.ipsc.org/pdf/RulesHandgun.pdf And the Rules FAQ's (frequently asked questions): http://www.ipsc.org/rulesfaq.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Another thing is the IPSC box is a different size from both the USPSA Single Stack box and the IDPA box. Your Standard pistol with mag might fit the other boxes but not fit the IPSC box. The dimensions: IPSC: 8.86" x 5.91" x 1.77" (225mm x 150mm x 45mm) USPSA SS: 8.938 x 6.0" x 1.625". (227.01mm x 152.40mm x 41.28mm) IDPA: 8.75" x 6.0" x 1.625". Check your magazines ahead of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan45kim Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Two questions Will a Para P16 with an S&A magwell fit in the box for IPSC standard division. Anyone know what base pads I could run with my Para magazine tubes. Thanks, Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Two questions Will a Para P16 with an S&A magwell fit in the box for IPSC standard division. Anyone know what base pads I could run with my Para magazine tubes. Thanks, Ryan The gun will probably fit depending on your base pads. I have a Para P-14 with S&A mag well. It will fit the IDPA box by height with a tiny bit to spare using aluminum base pads I got somewhere years ago. I couldn't find the pads at Brownells just now. The IPSC box is slightly smaller than the IDPA box in height. It looks like my pads could be trimmed enough to fit if needed. Factory mag pads should fit with no problem. The IPSC box is thicker than the IDPA box. My S&A mag well was trimmed to fit the IDPA box. If your mag well has not been trimmed you should measure the thickness. It needs to be 45 mm or less. Probably the only way to know for sure is to try it in an IPSC box. It will be close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 The S&A well is too fat for the lid to close on an IDPA box, I see the IPSC box is a tenth thicker so it should fit, CPMI pads are the ones you want, also factory pads will work, not really any advantage to the CPMI ones though. Dont waste money on the Arendondos despite the claims they wont fit para tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan45kim Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Thanks for the responses guys, I’m use to USPSA but Ohio will be my first time shooting IPSC. I measured my S&A magwells and they are both 43.6mm at there widest point so I’m hopping they are ok. I normally run Dawson pads with Para tubes but I know they will not fit in the box. Will the Para +2 factory base pads fit the IPSC box? I have the stock pads that will fit the box I just wanted pads that were a little longer so they would seat easier in the S&A magwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Production shooters with different color or refinished guns (not just pretty blue painted slides) will find themselves in Open Division. based on common combinations. Feel free to add other common issues as you see them, or ask questions about a particular firearm. Oh the humanity! This is why I keep a stock G17 in the safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 When I shot the IPSC match in Michigan my Bedell STI Limited (Standard) gun fit easily in the box with the STI 126 mags and the Dawson International basepad. It has the factory STI mag well. Don't forget the 170 PF for Standard, the minimum bullet weight for Open, is it 121, I can't remember? I suspect the biggest danger for US shooters is Production Division. Information for what it is worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan45kim Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I think the biggest change for me in standard is having to run my magazines behind the hip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Will the Para +2 factory base pads fit the IPSC box?I have the stock pads that will fit the box I just wanted pads that were a little longer so they would seat easier in the S&A magwell. The Para +2 factory base pads won't fit the IDPA box so they won't fit the IPSC box either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck223 Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 I think the biggest change for me in standard is having to run my magazines behind the hip. Remember to read the exact wording. You don't have to carry your mags behind your back, just behind the forward tip of your hip bone. Most people will find that is about the center of the front pockets on a pair of Levi's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan45kim Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Thanks, that sounds better but I still want my mag front and center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Production shooters with different color or refinished guns (not just pretty blue painted slides) will find themselves in Open Division. based on common combinations. Feel free to add other common issues as you see them, or ask questions about a particular firearm. Oh the humanity! This is why I keep a stock G17 in the safe Yep good place for them. Shoot the 1911's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneBray Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 By no meanings a IPSC rules expert, however, I don't think any 140mm mags will fit the box for Standard. I think you have to use 126mm and base pads could make the mag to long to fit the box. Word to the wise is check the IPSC rules carefully and don't make a mistake. See if you can find a competitor somewhere who has/does shot internationally..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 One of our local shooters informed me that he is headed to this IPSC match. By coincidence, I happened to put some Classic (i.e. - targets commonly used in IPSC aka the turtle target) into last night's match. Match designers: if you have folks going to the Ohio IPSC, consider adding these to your next USPSA club shoot. The targets present a different visual experience, and to my eye the "appear" further away than they otherwise would. Getting your shooters accustomed to these targets might be valuable. Interesting claim I heard about the Classic (dunno if its true): the A-zone covers the same square area as our usual USPSA A-zone. Either way, my perception is that the Classic target is overall tougher (points wise) than the USPSA. Perhaps added emphasis on accuracy is called for. Good luck all. PS - Production shooters: remember to load to full capacity & make sure your triggers will pass weight at the chrono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 It really is a good idea to run at least one stage worth of the turtle targets at your local USPSA matches...every month. For one, they are legal USPSA targets and your shooters will see them in other USPSA matches. Second, even if you don't like them for their "political correctness" (as I have heard mentioned), they actually lend a bit of real world practicality to the matches...in that shooters need to be more "aware" in their target discrimination. Plus, it can be a bit of a distraction from the norm. Before I drift us too far... Yes, all the paper targets in an IPSC match are required to be the turtles targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 snip ... Interesting claim I heard about the Classic (dunno if its true): the A-zone covers the same square area as our usual USPSA A-zone. Classic A zone is 367.5 sq cm. Lower A zone of the metric target is 420 sq cm. (add 50 sq cm for the head) yup, less A Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 snip ... Interesting claim I heard about the Classic (dunno if its true): the A-zone covers the same square area as our usual USPSA A-zone. Classic A zone is 367.5 sq cm. Lower A zone of the metric target is 420 sq cm. (add 50 sq cm for the head) yup, less A Later, Chuck Whadda heck is a cm? Eschew Obfuscation (I always liked that line, btw. I'd use it...if I could pronounce or spell it! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 snip ... Interesting claim I heard about the Classic (dunno if its true): the A-zone covers the same square area as our usual USPSA A-zone. Classic A zone is 367.5 sq cm. Lower A zone of the metric target is 420 sq cm. (add 50 sq cm for the head) yup, less A Later, Chuck Whadda heck is a cm? Eschew Obfuscation (I always liked that line, btw. I'd use it...if I could pronounce or spell it! ) Fight the metric system! We don't need no foreign rulers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Fight the metric system! We don't need no foreign rulers... Giv'em an inch, they'll kill'a meter. (I just made that up...it might need work. Probably good enough for a lame Jay Leno joke. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 From another thread...seemed like a good idea to include it here... Can you shoot a DOH in prod with IPSC rules? Yes, IPSC Production allows race holsters, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapzter Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Production shooters with different color or refinished guns (not just pretty blue painted slides) will find themselves in Open Division. USPSA rules allow cosmetic refinishing, but IPSC rules do not. No pinstriping either, in case you were so inclined. Glock 34 & 35 models are not Production guns under IPSC rules. Shooters with guns that have cosmetic modifications can probably use them in Standard Division though, if they fit in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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