Non-standard Range Commands...

[Ron Ankeny]

Today I managed to really piss off a bunch of people. Part of the story is in the rules forum. I am putting this in the hate forum as a rant, but please feel free to comment.

Here's the problem, I have arrived at a point where I find non-standard range commands really bothersome. I don't have enough focus to maintain my set while the RO chatters a bunch of nonsense. Most of the guys in my club seem to think I am a self-centered prima donna and maybe they are right.

Stage One this morning began with one hand on a doorknob. The commands were, "If you understand the course of fire you may load and make ready." Followed by, "The shooter is ready". I assumed the beep would follow so I stopped, faced the RO and we had a discussion.

On Stage 2 the commands were (different RO), "If you under stand the course of fire you may step into the box and load and make ready." Followed by the old, "Shooter ready?" I nodded and the next thing out of the RO's mouth was, "Shooter indicates ready, stand by, and an almost instant beep."

On stages 3 and 4 the RO was a friend of mine who understands the importance of standard commands. The commands were by the book with just the right amount of wait time between the commands. That was refreshing.

Stage 5 was the classifier. We shot Bang and Clang and the high hit factor on that puppy is over 12 with a Limited gun. I was shooting production so I figured 30 points in just under 3 seconds would be a realistic expectation. The RO tells me to, "Load and make ready". I load up, do my little straighten the cap and glasses routine, raise my hands and nod." The next command was, "Shooter indicates ready, followed by an almost instant beeeep". I thought about just standing there, but I drew, mowed down the first two pieces of steel, shot the paper, then I started missing. I stopped, lowered the pistol to chest level, then raised it up and shot the last two targets. I told the RO and MD I wanted to re-shoot the classifier to send in with the first run standing for the match. The RO asked on what basis I was asking for a re-shoot and I told him on the basis of non-standard range commands and being pissed off. The MD is a good guy so he laughed and said "Hell they will flag that one anyway." He grabbed another sheet and we wrote for match score on the first one and grandbagger on the second one. When it came time for the re-shoot most of the guys had left and I had given up on shooting a decent score.

When all was said and done I explained to a new shooter who was put off with my behavior that I was mad at myself for not being able to maintain my set (I doubt that he knew what that meant) through all of the distractions. I told him that I knew I could shoot the COF in under 3 seconds but I just couldn't maintain focus with all of the joking and yelling going on not 20 feet away and the nonstandard commands. I continued to say that all I wanted to hear was, "Are you ready…Stand By…beep." Instead, I had no idea what was going to be next out of the RO's mouth. I even told him that when I was shooting in C class I never gave it a thought but when you get to M class and know you can perform at that level, self expectations change and my expectations of the RO also changed. So tell me, am I wrong?

[Jake Di Vita]

We all have our breaking point my friend.

And no, I don't think you're wrong.

[B.J. Norris]

Not at all.

[ErikW]

I've got it! Let's print out the range commands on a little card and laminate it. Then clip it to the back of our hats. Ron should do the back of a t-shirt in large print.

Whenever I get "Slide Forward" I wish I weren't wearing cleats.

The LAMR, AYR, and SB commands are pretty well used locally, but LAMR is often preceeded by some form of "Do you understand the course of fire?" If I'm in a bad mood, I'll respond, "What difference does it make?" Usually I just nod and grin and wait for the magic words.

The one command that never fails to tick me off is when I'm standing there at the start position, ear plugs in, ear muffs in hand or on belt clip so I can listen for the command, and what I hear is: "OK."

[Vince Pinto]

Hi guys,

Maybe you should print out this thread and circle #9 with a magic marker?

[kindlyoldcoach]

I'd be steamed as well. Apart from being distracting, it can be unsafe.

Slightly tangential case in point: Non-standard safety warnings. At a recent match, a highly-strung but otherwise totally switched-on range officer was attempting to tell a shooter that he was perilously close to breaking 180° as he moved from port to port. He shouted, three times at least, "Watch your gun!" The shooter was new to IPSC, I think, and his initial reaction was probably that this loud, enthusiastic fellow was coaching him. He looked at his pistol, looked at the RO with a quizzical expression, and kept shooting.

It didn't help AT ALL that we had people with six different mother tongues signed up at that match. Made the need for clarity and consistency all the more apparent.

It doesn't seem to be covered in the rulebook, but at my safety course, I was taught to expect a call of "Muzzle!" or "One-eighty!", if the RO was inclined to give warnings at all. If someone yelled "watch your gun" into my ear, I'd immediately wonder if it was on fire or turning into a snake, or something. Meanwhile, I could be putting a slug into Jimmy next to me, DQ-ing us both.

[kimel]

So are these "RO" type folks really ROs or just a bunch of the locals playing RO? I am not an RO yet (class is in 2 weeks) but my practice partner (a CRO) has been making me use the right commands even during practice for several months now.

And, I still dive back into the old habits that some of the folks that are not ROs taught me when I was a new shooter now and then. Gahhhh!!! I hope the instructor wears soft shoes to class so his boot prints on my arse heal quickly.

FWIW...Ron, you are 100% in the right here.

A t-shirt with the range commands on the back...what a cool idea. Black T with day glo orange or lime green print. Yeah....

Of course it won't be t-shirt weather here for another 5 months now but by then we will know what the new range commands will be for sure as the new rule book should be in force by then.

[Nik Habicht]

Kimel,

When I took my class --- every time that recruits in boot camp wou have had to drop and give the instructor 20, we were asked to recite the range commands. Everyone got at least one chance to lead the class --- and if you screwed it up you had to start over....

I'm pretty sure you'll be dreaming them after class...

Ron,

I'm steamed right with ya.... The people who really rile up are the people who keep repeating "Are you Ready?"

[Garfield]

Ron,

I agree with you (as stated in "the other thread").

But if I may add a tiny little comment: you know that had you just frozen at the beep, there would not have been any "special" measure necessary

But I would probably have started just as you and hated myself for it afterwards (Although I am not an M-class shooter (yet )

At my club I have fought hard to get everyone involved in our IPSC-like shooting evenings, although virtually nobody there has an IPSC license yet. As (bad) habits are hard to break it is best to start as early as possible with "educating" everyone involved. Not in an unfriendly way or so, I do not want to scare anyone away. And I have found that when this is explained to new shooters, they easily accept this. It is the shooters who have already shot for many years that are not so easiliy convinced.

[John Heiter]

Maybe I'm not good enough to know better but I don't mind the "If you understand the course of fire you may..." bit before the start of the standard range commands. I do want the standard range commands in the proper sequence and with fairly standard timing but if a newbie gets up to the line and doesn't have a clue what they're supposed to do, I'd rather find out before they load up.

I know a lot of people use the range command sequence like a light tree at a drag race to get their timing down and changing that up would cause problems. The equivalent of saying "on your mark, get set, be sure you're ready, go". Once I start the sequence I'll go by the book but, if I'm RO'ing you, I'd rather get questions about hand position, etc. out of the way before we get started.

John

[Ron Ankeny]

Thanks for the link Vince. I have no idea how I missed that thread.

[dminor]

Ron,

One of the reasons I ask shooters, "do you understand the COF" before the LAMR command, is because 95% of the time they do not remember the start position. I use this as a way for them to ask me what the start position is. It seems to help. I am sorry to hear that you want to hear nothing but the standard range commands. Let me know next time I RO you.

[Garfield]

... is because 95% of the time they do not remember the start position.  I use this as a way for them to ask me what the start position is.

Hi,

Not wanting to bash you or anything like that, but isn't that fixing the effect rather than the cause ? To me that sounds that maybe more attention should be paid during the briefing ?

[Ron Ankeny]

Denise:

When I am the RO, I ask shooters if they understand the COF if they are inexperienced or appear to be confused or nervous. I would never dream of being critical of an RO who is trying to be helpful and courteous before LAMR. It's what happens after LAMR or even in place of LAMR that causes me grief.

[Rufus The Bum]

We had a similar problem at our club a year or so ago. You know what solved the problem? Without anyone getting bitched at, our MD simply included the range commands in our shooters meeting. He was really political about it and said that since we have so many new shooters who are not familiar with range commands, it needed to be briefed. Maybe instead of you getting mad and acting like a bunch of crybabies, why don't you just brief the range commands before the match? It's really that simple to rectify. Saying nothing does not solve the problem, Speak UP!!!

[Garfield]

Rufus,

You might be onto something with your suggestion.

However, here in NL the range commands are taught during the basic IPSC training so everyone should know them. How is that done in the USA ?

Or are we discussing different things here : I am talking about certified RO's and IPSC-licensed shooters. It would be different if a lot of shooters never had any course or so ...

[Ron Ankeny]

Rufus:

I have spoken up and will continue to do so. I don't think you know enough about the situation to call us a bunch of cry babies...that ain't the problem.

[texasag93]

As an RO(certified) I do my best to make the shooter as comfortable as possible. I have two or three new shooters(new crop of college kids every year at Texas A&M) at each match. There is nothing worse than an inexperienced shooter sittting in a shooting box shaking like a leaf waiting for a buzzer. IT MAKES ME NERVOUS! If I know the shooter is experienced then the procedure is cut and dried. I will ask if they understand the course of fire. If yes, then I proceed with the standard range commands. There are many uncertified ROs that do their best to help with matches. They just need a little guidance. Print the range commands and stick them to the clipboards. Give them a reminder every now and then. RO is a thankless job most of the time. If you aren't happy with procedures, speak up, but as nicely as possible. Being a match director and RO has done nothing to help my scores. I do it to help keep my club up and running, not for the huge salary that I make doing it. TXAG

[EricW]

Ron isn't being a crybaby by a long shot. The variation in range commands is really disconcerting when you don't know what to expect next. In Oregon, all the RO's were very consistent, but they had a custom: Saying nothing after "shooter ready?" meant you were ready and the next thing you could expect to hear was "Stand by....beep." Totally cool with me. I like it.

Go to California and the RO expects an affirmative response to "Shooter Ready?" before "Stand by...."

Is it a huge deal once you understand what's going on? No, but I wholeheartedly agree with Ron that it needs to be the same with every RO at every club. If USPSA/IPSC needs to make a video tape and distribute it to clubs demonstrating "THE PROCEDURE," so be it. Some RO's just don't get the cadence of how the commands should be issued and this may be the answer - or not.

My 2 copper atoms...

[scooterj]

While serving as CRO on stage 6 at the LASC, I had a couple competitors get somewhat miffed at me because I used the proper commands. I gave LAMR and they turned to me and asked why I didn't ask if they had any questions. My reply was that everyone should have heard the walk-through and they also had 5 minuites to look over the stage and ask questions after the walkthrough was given.

Guess it was my fault that they had other things to do during the W-T.

See Ron, you're not the only A-Hole

[rhino]

. . . "shooter ready?" . . .

. . . "Shooter Ready?" . . .

Don't you mean, "Are you ready?"

[Loves2Shoot]

If an RO says, "Stoke it up", "go ahead", "load up", I always ask politely do you mean "load and make ready?" This usually works, if it were an immediate beep after stand by, I would not draw and ask for a restart also. I think it is the proper thing to do.

[Rufus The Bum]

Ron:

Perhaps I do not know your particular clubs problem with Range Commands, I was just saying that a briefing of range commands at the shooter meeting should clear up the problem, if it does not, then your club obviously has other problems which cannot be solved at the club level. What does your section coordinator think of people ignoring the proper range commands?

I stopped shooting IDPA because the SO's are so nit-picky about the rules to the point it is simply not fun.

[Flexmoney]

The thing is...the range commands are simple enough to give properly...if everybody is on the same page...everybody is happy.

[John Dunn]

I don't know how anyone could attend the RO class Ron and I did and not feel a profound sense of personal failure when caught giving improper commands. Why would someone who knows better persist in doing it wrong? And then threaten a DQ for no reason? Are we living in crazyworld? That guy needs to get his poop in a group.