1911 Semi drop in barrel with lower lugs pre-cut

[tk2]

I'm attempting to build my first gun, just for fun and to learn a little about the guns I shoot so much. I am to the point of picking a barrel and wondering about some of the semi drop in barrels that have the lower lugs pre-cut with a fitted link but have extra meat in the hood and upper lugs for fitting.

Since the lower lugs ride on the firing pin, isn't it possible for the lower lugs to be pre-cut and the proper link fited to an almost perfect fit without the need for fitting to an individual gun?

I guess I'm just curious as to why the lower lugs need to be fitted to the individual gun.

Thanks,

Tim

[Steve J]

There are no truly drop in parts for a 1911. Barrel fitting is one of the most important areas in building a gun.

1911 barrels have to be fitted for accuracy and timing. A poorly fit barrel will disrupt the functioning/reliability of the gun and will cause early wear and breakage of other parts. Barrel fitting is it's own separate course for gunsmiths learning to custom build 1911s. See what it says about it here >> http://www.cylinder-slide.com/

[tk2]

There are no truly drop in parts for a 1911. Barrel fitting is one of the most important areas in building a gun.

1911 barrels have to be fitted for accuracy and timing. A poorly fit barrel will disrupt the functioning/reliability of the gun and will cause early wear and breakage of other parts. Barrel fitting is it's own separate course for gunsmiths learning to custom build 1911s. See what it says about it here >> http://www.cylinder-slide.com/

Thanks for the reply Steve. I do understand why a barrel has to be custom fitted to the gun, but what I don't understand is why the lower lugs can't be pre-cut since the slide stop should always be more or less the same diameter.

Is it because the lower lug helps regulate the amount of lockup you get between the barrel and slide?

Edited July 16, 2009 by tk2

[Steve J]

There are no truly drop in parts for a 1911. Barrel fitting is one of the most important areas in building a gun.

1911 barrels have to be fitted for accuracy and timing. A poorly fit barrel will disrupt the functioning/reliability of the gun and will cause early wear and breakage of other parts. Barrel fitting is it's own separate course for gunsmiths learning to custom build 1911s. See what it says about it here >> http://www.cylinder-slide.com/

Thanks for the reply Steve. I do understand why a barrel has to be custom fitted to the gun, but what I don't understand is why the lower lugs can't be pre-cut since the slide stop should always be more or less the same diameter.

Because that's not always the case. They vary in diameter.

[CSEMARTIN]

Barrel fitting is it's own separate course for gunsmiths learning to custom build 1911s.

I'll second that.

I've been working on the barrel fitting part for over a year now.

[rvb]

I had good luck with a Kart "Easy Fit" barrel. It was my first baby-step into barrel fitting. Next gun I'll try my hand at a hard fit barrel and spend the $ on the necessary tools...

-rvb

[Matt Cheely]

You can spend $150 on a drop in barrel and have it not work. Send it to a smith who grumbles about working on a poor barrel, spend $150 and get it back working but still not 100%. Or you can just send the gun to a smith, spend $300 up front, and get a great end product.

Drop in barrels are absolutely horrible in my experience...

[Joe4d]

Fitting a barrel isnt some super secret swammi operation, you do need a good tech manual like Kuhnhassens, You also need some basic machining and mechanical skills and most importantly expect to screw a few parts up along the way. They do need to be fit. Frames vary, slides vary, slide stops vary, links, pins etc etc etc. My first build was with a Nowlin semi drop in 9mm commander, which eventually ran like a top through a couple years of IDPA but it wasnt an over night build either, I have also built two .40's using Ed Brown semi drop ins a Para ramp and a Nowlin ramp. None of them dropped in however, and need to be fit all around.

[tk2]

Fitting a barrel isnt some super secret swammi operation, you do need a good tech manual like Kuhnhassens, You also need some basic machining and mechanical skills and most importantly expect to screw a few parts up along the way. They do need to be fit. Frames vary, slides vary, slide stops vary, links, pins etc etc etc. My first build was with a Nowlin semi drop in 9mm commander, which eventually ran like a top through a couple years of IDPA but it wasnt an over night build either, I have also built two .40's using Ed Brown semi drop ins a Para ramp and a Nowlin ramp. None of them dropped in however, and need to be fit all around.

Joe4d, did you get good accuracy from you Ed Brown semi drop in barrels?'

[jjanglin]

Not enough room or time to go into all the varibles in fitting barrels, drop in barrels are not much

good if they are a ramped style, you can get away with them they are a non ramped 45 barrel

you want to fit. you have to think about the upper and lower lugs to get the barrel set right

if it wobbles in the slide lugs it wont be accurate or if the barrel fits in the slide slight crooked

your lower lugs wont be fit square and all kinds of problems will crop up.

If its done right barrel fitting can be time consuming especially in 9mm major guns.

No slide or barrel is exaclty the same.

Best left to a smith.

jim/Pa

Sailors

[mike cyrwus]

short and quick answer is that the barrel must be simultaneously and properly fit to the frame via lower lugs/slide stop and the slide via the upper lugs.

Add to it the play between frame and slide, and other of the varying specifications of barrel, slide, and frame, and- "Lucy, you gots some fitting to do!"

[Carmoney]

I had good luck with a Kart "Easy Fit" barrel. It was my first baby-step into barrel fitting. Next gun I'll try my hand at a hard fit barrel and spend the $ on the necessary tools...

-rvb

Me too. The criticism directed at the pre-fit barrels does not apply to the Kart EZ-Fit product, in my opinion. I have hard-fit a number of match barrels on various 1911s over the years, with excellent results, but I cannot claim that the results of all those hours of labor is really all that much better than the results I get from installing a Kart EZ-fit barrel.

Now, it's important to point out that the Kart EZ-fit is not a drop-in proposition. You need the installation kit they sell, and you need to read, thoroughly understand, and closely follow the instructions.

[Joe4d]

Fitting a barrel isnt some super secret swammi operation, you do need a good tech manual like Kuhnhassens, You also need some basic machining and mechanical skills and most importantly expect to screw a few parts up along the way. They do need to be fit. Frames vary, slides vary, slide stops vary, links, pins etc etc etc. My first build was with a Nowlin semi drop in 9mm commander, which eventually ran like a top through a couple years of IDPA but it wasnt an over night build either, I have also built two .40's using Ed Brown semi drop ins a Para ramp and a Nowlin ramp. None of them dropped in however, and need to be fit all around.

Joe4d, did you get good accuracy from you Ed Brown semi drop in barrels?'

Accuracy was very good, In the Para it was a huge improvement over the stock barrel. I have posted the shot groups on here a couple times but cant find the pics now.

Mike Cyrwus has it right though pretty much every dimension on the barrels are slightly over sized. You said your intent was to build your own gun. I would buy the Kuhnhassen manual a few tools a Nowlin, Kart, or Ed Brown semi drop in and go for it, take your time and remember you cant add metal to anything so go slow.

[gino_aki]

I'd also get the AGI "Building The Ultimate 1911" DVD's.

[texasdog]

I'd also get the AGI "Building The Ultimate 1911" DVD's.

Do KKM Glock 21 Drop in Barrells need to be fit as well?

[huesos]

There have been some experienced individuals on this thread so far, so I'd like to ask which slide/ barrel combination would be best to fit to a Para P14 frame. The original slide is loose from quite a few rounds but takes a good trigger job so I thought I might save it and try for a truly accurate rebuild.

[wide45]

There have been some experienced individuals on this thread so far, so I'd like to ask which slide/ barrel combination would be best to fit to a Para P14 frame. The original slide is loose from quite a few rounds but takes a good trigger job so I thought I might save it and try for a truly accurate rebuild.

STI slide, Schuemann barrel, .40 cal. Worked for me when I could get pre-bans in NY. Changing caliber might not be so good for you in California.

Original slide was not particularly loose. Tried Caspian, and STI slides. Neither much tighter than the original.

Had to lower the rails a lot to get the fit I wanted. Very scary. Nothing drop in about that.

Edited August 1, 2009 by wide45

[gino_aki]

There have been some experienced individuals on this thread so far, so I'd like to ask which slide/ barrel combination would be best to fit to a Para P14 frame. The original slide is loose from quite a few rounds but takes a good trigger job so I thought I might save it and try for a truly accurate rebuild.

I've personally run in to two "loose" Para frames, and one that I suspect was one as it has the only fix that seems to be best: Accurails. After that a "drop in barrel" is a "gunsmith fit" proposition.

Edited August 1, 2009 by gino_aki

[wide45]

I will never go Accurails. Seen too many broken rails. Worse yet, cracked slide requires you to send gun back to Accurail to cut new slide.

EGW used to weld up and machine fit rails for about the same money. Much better way to go. Don't know if they will still do that work.

[huesos]

Did the Shuemann barrel come designed to be fit for an accurate lock up? The one in my SVI looks kind of like a drop in.

There have been some experienced individuals on this thread so far, so I'd like to ask which slide/ barrel combination would be best to fit to a Para P14 frame. The original slide is loose from quite a few rounds but takes a good trigger job so I thought I might save it and try for a truly accurate rebuild.

STI slide, Schuemann barrel, .40 cal. Worked for me when I could get pre-bans in NY. Changing caliber might not be so good for you in California.

Original slide was not particularly loose. Tried Caspian, and STI slides. Neither much tighter than the original.

Had to lower the rails a lot to get the fit I wanted. Very scary. Nothing drop in about that.

[wide45]

Did the Shuemann barrel come designed to be fit for an accurate lock up?

Oh yes.

Don't think Schuemann lists a drop in on their website. They might have been doing special dimensions for SV. Schuemann never offered coated barrels, except from SV. SV has been making their own barrels for a while now.

[Derek45]

I like the KART EASY FIT

Brownells has them, and the tools you need.

[Roadrider18]

Semi fit only means it has been semi-prepped and "might" drop in.

Besides lacking optimum hood fit, what about the dwell surface of the legs? Any bump on the dwell surface by the slide release pin during cam down will result in poor accuracy (usually printing vertical strings on paper).

What about TOTAL headspace, not to mention barrel headspace? My experience indicates semi-fit barrel headspace will be on the long side of SAAMI specs; not necessarily a bad thing, but, not optimum.

If you are looking for improved accuracy, a semi-drop in is a good choice. If you are looking for optimum accuracy, nothing beats a fitted match grade barrel for that specific weapon.

To give you an idea....I charge $200 (labor only) to "hard fit" a match grade BarSto; it takes me about 8 hours to complete the fitting process. A Kart match grade takes about 6 hours (still $200 labor). The time difference is due to stainless steel bar stock used by BarSto compared to Kart's ordinance steel.

From BarSto's FAQs....

"A SEMI DROP IN Barrel Generaly requires little to no fitting. They should go in about 7 out of 10 times with no fitting required but with the tolerance of firearms, this is not always the case. We strive to give you the tightest lock up, still allow for the barrels to fit with little to no fitting and give you MUCH BETTER than factory accuracy."

Good luck!

Edited August 2, 2009 by Roadrider18

[huesos]

Which frame / slide combinations have worked best with the Barsto hand fit barrel that you mention?

Have you ever used one with a Para frame? The Barsto seems to be designed with enough material to be actually fit by cutting as does the Kart. Do you find the end result to be pretty much equal?