Wheelchair bound shooter

[Shawn Knight]

I had an interesting sittuation come up at yesterday's IDPA indoor match. We were trying to come up with a way to run a wheelchair bound shooter and the way we came up with was that the shooter could safely reholster his weapon and then move to the next array of targets.

What would you do?

The first array of targets was shot from sitting anyway but the next 2 arrays were shot while moving and "slicing the pie". The shooter did very well for being handicapped and was able to safely holster his pistol. The only thing I had a slight problem with was the fact that the shooter didn't have any magazine holders and his reloading technique was not practiced.

Anyone have any thought on running shooters in wheelchairs?

[GmanCdp]

GLad he got to shoot and had fun..i would let him just use a "clipon" nylon mag pouch of sometype and let him clip it to the armrest somehow..leave it in open or conceal it with a towel..

[Dan Hefta]

That is a tough question, I think that is why there are not alot of posts on this topic. We should not discriminate anyones handicap but we need to conduct our matches with the same safety standards for everyone. I don't want to touch this one with a ten foot pole, I hope that some of the more experienced RO's/ SO's will comment. By the way, I am gald that you allowed him to shoot your match.

[CSEMARTIN]

At the Thunder on the Ohio IDPA match in '04, one of the CDP shooters was wheelchair bound. The MD asked the competitors before the match if it would be ok for him to run the stage in "strings" on the clock. Basically, he'd shoot at one position and reholster. Someone would move him to the next shooting position, give him the standby command, beep, shoot that part of the stage and so on until he was done with the stage. I can't remember if his reloads were on the clock or not.

I didn't hear anyone complain about it or get upset by how it was handled.

[cripple]

It all depends on many different things like his ability or injury level, type of chair and the type of gun. I'm paralyzed from the chest down and I can only holster reliably crossdraw, which is why I don't compete. It creates an unsafe situation. In any case the situation would need to be handled just as it was, regardless of handicap. If he can be safe and follow the rules, then he can shoot. If he presents a hazard to himself and others, then he shouldn't be allowed to shoot. There is no room for PC when a gun is involved, not that I agree with being PC anyway..

Edited July 8, 2009 by cripple

[prreed10]

This is a conundrum. I would hate to exclude anyone from shooting, but on the other hand, you have to keep the safety of the Shooter, the other competers and safety officers as a priority. I think I would let him shoot as long as he could safely complete the course of fire. If shooting safely went against the course of fire, I would keep him safe and maybe assess a procedural.

Not completely the same, but we have a couple of older shooters that physically cannot get into some positions required by the course description. We allow them to shoot in a way that the safely can, but they are given a procedural. They have been fine with that.

[Shawn Knight]

We did not give any procedurals. He was a very good shooter and was completely OK with the way we let him shoot the stage. He actually did not want the original plan we came up with which was similar to pushing him in his wheelchair. The method we used was safe as far as gun handling although the magazine change needs some work. He didn't have magazine pouches and no one had any to lend. He basically sat on his mags and shifted the gun to his weak hand in order to reload. He put the safety on and made sure his finger was out of the trigger guard.

[Joe4d]

If I was the SO I would say," Dont sweep yourself, dont sweep any one else or break the left right or up down muzzle limit. Other than that shoot the stage the best you can. How do you intend to shoot it and is there any way I can help ?"

I wouldnt care if I had to load the gun for him with an 18 round magazine and let him shoot the hole stage strong hand only and I had to take the gun and reload it and hand it back to him , Yes I know alot of rules being broken but who really cares in a situation like this. As long as its safe let em shoot best they can.

[kylethunder380]

I too am in a wheelchair, but mine is electric. I am lucky enough to go to an engineering college where the metal working guys are awesome. He made me a custom "arm" out of aluminum which slides into the hollow frame tube of my wheelchair and locks in with a steel pin. It has a plate attached to it which is where my BladeTech DOH holster attaches, and I can cant it forward or backward. The gun ends up right next to my knee, which is perfect with the drop/offset style holsters that sit lower. With my wheelchair, I can move my controller to either my left or right side, so I can have one hand on my joystick and the other handling the holstering/drawing. If I use my right hand to move, and my left hand to draw, I do lose a little time readjusting my grip when my hands meet in front of my chest (I am right handed). But, there isn't a whole lot of room under/next-to the joystick, so even though I could have my holster AND joystick on my right side, and draw with my right hand after I have come to a stop, there isn't much room to work with over there unless I flip the joystick out of the way, which ends up costing me more time than just drawing with my left hand and readjusting my grip before pressing out toward my target.

I have a friend who is in a regular push wheelchair, and what he does is wraps a belt around his legs (below his knees) which has a Kydex OWB holster on it, but modified 90 degrees so it points forward/backward instead of left/right (which would be very dangerous when drawing if you have someone next to you). His gun sits centered between his legs when holstered. His mag pouches are on the belt too, on both sides of the holster. It works for him anyways. I use this "belt" idea around my legs too, but only for my mag pouches. Hope this offers at least a little help. It really does depend a lot on the wheelchair design and the persons arm strength/mobility.

-Kyle

Edited July 8, 2009 by kylethunder380

[atbarr]

Be sure everyone is safe, and let them shoot.

A.T.

[cyberiad]

A guy in a wheelchair sometimes shoots a local IDPA match where I usually SO. In addition to being in a wheelchair he can only shoot strong hand. Due to his paralysis he has enough mobility in his weak hand to reload with it but he can't use it to shoot. He uses a nylon holster strapped to his chair with mags on the other side. This presents no "issues" at all. He's safe and does well with his P226.

[Pittbug]

If I was the SO I would say," Dont sweep yourself, dont sweep any one else or break the left right or up down muzzle limit. Other than that shoot the stage the best you can. How do you intend to shoot it and is there any way I can help ?"

I wouldnt care if I had to load the gun for him with an 18 round magazine and let him shoot the hole stage strong hand only and I had to take the gun and reload it and hand it back to him , Yes I know alot of rules being broken but who really cares in a situation like this. As long as its safe let em shoot best they can.

+1

So many able people make lame excuses why they can't turn up and shoot.

[Shawn Knight]

I know I have made my own lame excuses.

[caspian1]

I know I have made my own lame excuses.

Although I can't compete any more because of my condition, I sure used to every week. I'm in a wheel chair and used velcro on my right leg just below the knee to hold my holster. The strong industrial stuff you can't hardly get anything loose from. I just kept my speed loaders between my legs resting on the chair. I would shoot the stage and someone would run for me to the next one. The RO would stop the timer, I would move into position with my gun holstered. When the timer went off I would shoot that stage and so on. We have a great bunch of people at our club and they will let anyone come and burn powder as long as they can do it safely. If the rules have to be bent a little because of a disability so be it. I don't shoot anymore but am still heavily involved in action pistol. My son has taken over where I left off on the competition side of things.

[ctdilley]

Be sure to carefully assess target height when laying out a stage. It's not unheard of for someone to choose to take head shots on targets that every other single shooter drilled right in the middle of the big circle.

When I used to MD IDPA matches - I always went through the stages before the match and looked for opportunities for anyone - in a seated or extremely low position - to launch one over the berm. You've got to get a picture of what's behind every head at every possible firing point to make sure you've got a few yards of safe impact area available (instead of clear blue sky).

And that's not just for the dudes (or dudettes) enhanced with wheels - occasionally you will see the uber-tactical approaching the corner of a wall and dropping to a knee. If the targets are laid out with strict care - you can just sit back and enjoy watching folks have a good time - on the other hand if you had 'assumed' that only people of standard height will be showing up on match day, there's a chance that you might have to put the kibosh on someone's otherwise awesome day.

And this is worth repeating:

So many able people make lame excuses why they can't turn up and shoot.

Edited July 14, 2009 by ctdilley

[JThompson]

Steel matches are well suited, not that I think any other match shouldn't be attempted, but it's a great way for physically challenged people to participate. Anyway, we had a guy shoot the steel match at Schultz over the weekend. He shot well, was safe, and seemed to really enjoy shooting. He was competing on and even keel with the rest of us and beat a lot of people.

JT

Edited July 14, 2009 by JThompson

[s_gorilla45]

In college, I shot with a guy that had MS. He used one of those rascal scooters and mounted his holster to the basket on the front. His hands shook badly and we all worried that he wouldn't hit a thing. He had his timing down though and was fairly accurate (more so than some of the hosers!). He was a huge inspriation to me at the time. I still think of him every time I have some small nagging injury that I try to use as an excuse to not train or compete.

[Ray Van Valkenburg]

I've had the pleasure of shooting with a man that was wheelchair bound down in Southern New Mexico, I can't remember his name. He had a nice chair set up with off road tires and a holster mounted and possibly mag pouches to the chair. When movement was involved, he would holster the gun and then move to the next location he needed to shoot from. He was always safe with his gun handling and had a good time shooting.

Ray

[Howard B]

I occasionally SO at matches in Greenville SC. A couple of years back, we had a shooter who would shoot from his scooter chair (yes, as seen on tv). He had his holster and mag bag attached to the steering post. Concealment was never an issue. Basically we made whatever accomodations we could to allow him to safely participate within the travel constraints of his scooter. If there was an actuater he couldn't manage, the SO or scorekeeper would trip it when the shooter passed that point. I think for him, simply being able to participate was the most important consideration.

As far as the wheel chair goes, why not let the individual mount his holster and mag pouches wherever necessary to safely participate. I anticipate there are those who will chime in saying the rules are inscribed on a tablet and any alteration/deviation will likely hasten the arrival of the four horsemen. But, even being a lifelong government employee who enforces rules daily, I am willing to say there have to be realistic exceptions. In NRA Highpower, (before current rule change) if a person was physically not capable of standing before the sitting/prone rapid fire stages, they were allowed to remain in place after sighters.

Perhaps the talented and innovative types in the club where the wheelchair bound fellow shoots could make some sort of adapter for him that would allow mounting points for a holster and mag pouch.

Just one opinion of many.