Carmoney Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Who's the director of the S&W Performance Center? While doing an action job on a brand new 627 PC, I found an internal part that was obviously and ridiculously defective. I want to send that part directly back to the guy in charge, so he can see what a crappy job some of his people are doing in terms of quality control. Who's running the show in the PC these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWPatriot Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 According to this article: SmithWesson It is Tom Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJDOUBLETAP Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 The only part on a PC that is better than a stock S&W is the light underlug. The actions suck. No revo straight from S&W is ready for competition, even the PC, until it gets Carmonized. Not saying S&W guns are crap, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedale Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Mike, I recently bought a "Performance Center" registered magnum (27-something). It had a trigger that rivaled the Armscor revolver at the local pawn and gun. The B/C gap was ~.002". I could fire ~2 cylinders before I couldn't pull the trigger. I had to clean the back of the barrel and the face of the cylinder before it would fire again. I have it running now but it was an $800 piece of crap. Oh...I almost forgot. It's got the dullest blue finish I've ever seen. I'd guess it never got the final (or any) buffing. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffl Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 (edited) Who's the director of the S&W Performance Center?While doing an action job on a brand new 627 PC, I found an internal part that was obviously and ridiculously defective. I want to send that part directly back to the guy in charge, so he can see what a crappy job some of his people are doing in terms of quality control. Who's running the show in the PC these days? is this mine or pauls gun? david Edited July 1, 2009 by ffl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sahlberg Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Tom Kelly is in charge and has always helped me with a great deal of professonalism. May I make a suggestion? While I understand your frustration, your tone may cause more harm than good as S&W has really stepped up to the plate the past few years. Guess what, mistakes happen and we are all human...... I ran a company for 21 years and learned that in customer service that " a spoonful of sugar always goes further than a pound of shit" Bill Sahlberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I found an internal part that was obviously and ridiculously defective. S&W has really stepped up to the plate the past few years. I respectfully disagree with you Bill. You can add my name to the long list of disappointed PC customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffl Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 After talking to Mike this was Snubby's gun which he won at the Smith & Wesson International Revolver Championships. Go Figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tripod Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 (edited) Add me to the list of owners that received a 627 pile of crap from the PC more than 6 years ago. Some things never change Edited July 1, 2009 by Tripod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sci Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I have a half dozen or so PC revolvers and have found that by replacing a few parts and lots of fitting they can be made into pretty decent guns Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 I have a half dozen or so PC revolvers and have found that by replacing a few parts and lots of fitting they can be made into pretty decent guns Steve Absolutely true, Steve. But normally you don't have to replace the major components, and this trigger was really a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 After talking to Mike this was Snubby's gun which he won at the Smith & Wesson International Revolver Championships. Go Figure. Fortunately I had a nice new forged trigger in my parts drawer, so I simply fit it to Snubby's gun and now everything's good to go. Action feels nice, everything test-fired fine, and I have it sighted in for this weekend. So not to worry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 Tom Kelly is in charge and has always helped me with a great deal of professonalism. May I make a suggestion? While I understand your frustration, your tone may cause more harm than good as S&W has really stepped up to the plate the past few years. Guess what, mistakes happen and we are all human......I ran a company for 21 years and learned that in customer service that " a spoonful of sugar always goes further than a pound of shit" Bill Sahlberg Yes, my inflammatory tone was for this audience only. I intend to be diplomatic with S&W when I send the trigger back. My hope is that perhaps with the part in hand, and the serial number of the gun into which it had been installed, Mr. Kelly can track things back and possibly determine where the problem occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kframe_mike Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Don't get me started on the "Safe Queen Center" guns.Up to this point,I'm 3 for 3 on PC guns that have had QC issues,some pretty serious(push off,timing,etc.).IMO,Smith is making these things to be collectors,not shooters.For what they charge for them,they should be ashamed.No more for me,EVER,I'm done.-Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyinAZ Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Mr. Jim Rae is the man in charge at the performance center and is a great guy to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rather-B-Huntin Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I have a half dozen or so PC revolvers and have found that by replacing a few parts and lots of fitting they can be made into pretty decent guns Steve It seems to me then, based on your example, they should then be termed "almost ready to work center" guns. When you put the word Performance in the title, that is what it should be capable of right out of the box. Trust me, I'm a S&W fan! But this is the perfect example of exactly what is wrong with American products these days. Many skilled laborers, most of whom are earning a better than decent wage, just don't care if they put out crap products. The product goes out, they get paid, big deal kinda attitude. It's hard to convince folks to give up foreign and buy domestic with examples of high priced shoddy workmanship like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I just saw this on S&W's website. Performance Center Guns Stand Alone. Here's Why. Performance Center Gunsmiths Provide Specialized Services For The Most Demanding Gun Enthusiasts: •Professionals who require the best firearm precision-adapted to their preferences •Competitive shooters who want performance that matches their capabilities •Discriminating outdoorsmen who demand superior performance •Collectors who look for unique limited edition guns The Smith & Wesson Performance Center® builds handguns of uncompromising quality for sophisticated firearms users with specific expectations and exclusive applications. Performance Center customers are the world's most demanding competition shooters, tactical specialists, big game hunters and high-end collectors. They know exactly what they want in their handguns and why. To meet their requirements, Performance Center gunsmiths conceptualize, engineer and hand-craft our products from the ground up. The team comprises the "best of the best," with an average length of service with Smith & Wesson of over 23 years. Some served in special forces units or on SWAT teams. Others are engineers or tool makers by trade. There are big game hunters, competition champions and collectors. Every member of the Performance Center team is actively involved in competitive shooting and are all highly skilled and experienced gunsmiths. Guns matter to them and they know them intimately. Performance Center stands for the supreme expression of the gunsmith's craft. Here are just a few of the custom features available on Performance Center products. In Semi-Auto Pistols we offer custom features like: •Hand Lapped Frame and Slide Rails •Match Grade Barrels •Polished Feed Ramps •Precision Crowned Muzzles •Hand Cut Chambers •Hand Cut Transition Angles •Hand Polished and Stoned Internal Actions •Hand Fit and Lapped Barrel Bushings •Checkered Front Straps These pistols offer performance and reliability unmatched in the industry. Performance Center Revolvers are unmatched in the field after big game, or at the range. Features like the following are offered: •Custom Two Piece Barrels - Precision-Made by Walther in Germany •Forged Hammers and Triggers that are Flashed Chromed •World Record Holding 8 Shot Cylinders (.357 only) •Performance Tuned Actions •Recessed and Crowned Muzzles •Tuned Rates of Twists for the Specific Caliber •Integral Accessory Rails These and many other features make Performance Center firearms the choice for the discriminating shooter looking for custom features, when only the best is good enough. If you are looking for unmatched reliability and performance, the Smith & Wesson Performance Center is the place. The Performance Center also offers a full line of after-market Custom Gunsmithing for any S&W firearm. Service is unequalled and prices and turnaround times are the best in the industry. In addition the custom work does not void your warranty. If you are looking for a hand-built and tuned firearm, or custom work done to your S&W, the gunsmiths in the Performance Center are waiting for you. Old World handcrafted firearms at real world prices. For this generation and the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I have been a loyal S&W customer for a lot of years. I have shot with and had a great time with several of the Gunsmiths from the PC. Several of the most talented have either retired or were promoted out. I have purchased their products in the past. Tom Kelly is a great guy but I have no idea if he is still there or not I know Jim Rae only by reputation. All that said, I would not buy a New PC revolver at the current dealer prices. The are like Kohler Plumbing products. Making it on the name made by past craftsmen. I doubt Mike will get an answer. Sorry, but I think you are wasting your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjanglin Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I dislike poo-pooing the performance center but the price we have to pay for the S&W revolvers = the guns should be cleaner and smoother. Ive got several revolvers now and I aint imopressed with the Performance Center stuff.But I sure like em when Im done with em. Jim/Pa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWBooth Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Tom Kelly is not over the Performance Center any more. He has not been the head person for over a year. Good luck with Jim Rae. I would call Jim Dalton. (800) 331-0852 Ext.3222. I hope that number is still good. ---JWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyinAZ Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 (edited) Jim Rae also builds Jerrys revolvers i have been told by other Smith employees. he knows what it takes to make them shoot. i have had great luck and bad luck with PC guns. usualy they are the only way to get some of the configurations for competitive shooting and justify the price. sometimes its just as easy to buy a standard gun and build it into what you need for the same money. more than one way to get there. Edited July 2, 2009 by scottyinAZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Jim Rae also builds Jerrys revolvers i have been told by other Smith employees. he knows what it takes to make them shoot. I'll bet you Jerry rebuilds his guns just like we do. And I would be very surprised if a single PC gun was up to Jerry's expectations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyinAZ Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Please dont take me for saying he builds the gun just the way Jerry shoots them. I dont know all the exact details, maybe he just puts together the ones that jerry gets. and Jerry didnt tell me this either, so it could all be bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRodriguez Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 I was told several years ago why the factory trigger jobs from all the revo's from S&W are very heavy, and It has to do with Massachusetts (I can't spell for s*&^) state laws. I had to do a little searching but here it is "However, in addition, the Attorney General requires that: Guns sold by dealers must have mechanisms that preclude an average five year old from operating the handgun, such as requiring multiple motions or a ten pound trigger pull;" Since the guns are made in that great crappola state, we get crappola triggers. Basically, S&W sends the revo's out with the parts to do your own trigger job, or have it sent out. I strongly beleive that about $500 should be knocked off the retail price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 +1 on that price drop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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