Dot Challenged is Barry Mount the answer

[CocoBolo]

After 6 months of attempting to shoot open with a conventional C-More mount, I have come to the reliazation that I am not making progress. Yes, I dry and wet fire. Out of the holster I pick up the dot but when you are leaning around obstacles, pointing thru low or off angle ports etc much time is wasted. Having the opportunity to shoot open and limited on the same course of fire several times I was always faster by as much a 10 seconds with my limited gun. In a steel match where not a lot of movment is required I do fine, but a USPSA match just does not go well.

The Jpoint isn't an opion as my STI open guns slides are cut down in the back. I am also left eye dominant righ handed near and far sighted so the Jpoint would be too close to the eye. Yes I have fuzzy rear site but good front sight using single vision glasses and can make good hit with Iron sights. Better hits with the dot at smaller targets at longer ranges, like a Texas Star at 28 yards.

So I am thinking that the Barry mount may be the only thing that can push me over the top, with the C-more and also keep me from having to relearn the index when I shoot Open.

Any body got direct knowledge of this?

[ChrisMcCracken]

I haven't shot one, but I'd also recommend a quinn mount if you're considering the barry. It gets lower and its easier to sight in since it's 90 degrees turned rather than 45. I'm sure others can attest.

[al503]

I don't think putting the c-more closer to the bore will have much effect. Whether its on a 'traditional' mount v. the Barry or the Quinn, my focus is in and through the glass, not on the orientation of the slide. Regardless, having the c-more closer to the bore definitely wouldn't hurt.

[ironb]

After 6 months of attempting to shoot open with a conventional C-More mount, I have come to the reliazation that I am not making progress. Yes, I dry and wet fire. Out of the holster I pick up the dot but when you are leaning around obstacles, pointing thru low or off angle ports etc much time is wasted. Having the opportunity to shoot open and limited on the same course of fire several times I was always faster by as much a 10 seconds with my limited gun. In a steel match where not a lot of movment is required I do fine, but a USPSA match just does not go well.

The Jpoint isn't an opion as my STI open guns slides are cut down in the back. I am also left eye dominant righ handed near and far sighted so the Jpoint would be too close to the eye. Yes I have fuzzy rear site but good front sight using single vision glasses and can make good hit with Iron sights. Better hits with the dot at smaller targets at longer ranges, like a Texas Star at 28 yards.

So I am thinking that the Barry mount may be the only thing that can push me over the top, with the C-more and also keep me from having to relearn the index when I shoot Open.

Any body got direct knowledge of this?

Let us know how that works out for ya. I have the same issues.

[Fireant]

+1 on the Quinn mount. I am also dot challenged and after a year of fighting it I have switched to the Quinn. It also helps keep my gun presentation the same for open and limited.

[WDB]

I shot a conventional mount for about a year before I went to a barry. For me it made a big difference. Dot was very easy to pick up. I have since moved on to a Aimpoint Micro in a Double Alpha mount and, for me, it's the cats meow. Hopefully some guys around were you shoot have some different setups for you to try a few times. It can get expensive really quick experimenting.

[BritinUSA]

I also use an Aimpoint Micro... I tried a C-More several times in the past, always had the same issue, couldn't find the dot and also had problems when I thought the dot was on the target and yet still kept missing.

I used a Docter scope to good effect, but there was something about the C-More that just did not work for me.

The Docter and Aimpoint are both parallax free, the C-More is not. I will point out that I am also right-handed and left-eye dominant. I wonder if this is a common problem with parallax-free red-dot scopes and cross-dominant eyes ?

[OpenShooterGirl]

I have 3 open guns and just ordered my 3rd Quinn mount. Being so close to the bore, it makes indexing and finding the dot simple. It's made a huge difference in my shooting. I strongly the recommend the Quinn Mount!

[CocoBolo]

Thanks everyone for your input on this subject. The one suprize is the lack of following for the Barry mount. My first open gun I tried was a 40 with a Tube aka Tasco Pro Point, this was easier than a C-More, and was the only gun I ever shot a Texas Star with only 5 shots, sold it some time ago, this lends credence to the Aim Point set up.

I'm not sure it is the Parralex but I have missed a few shots when the dot was there, just don't think it was still there when the hammer fell, they always seems to be the last shot before stepping off to a new location. A miss is more likley on a 3-5 yard target than a 25 yard target.

Based on your input and cost of trying it I am going to track down the Quinn guy and get one. In open gun shooting $125 is not a large investment, barley more than 4 pounds of VV N350. Once I have it and have chance to shoot with it I will post my feedback here.

[JThompson]

The "Quinn Guy" sent you an email.

I'm not sure a mount is a cure all no matter who makes it. It might help you with your issue and it might not. It's all about your index and presentation. If you find irons well this should help.

Edited June 16, 2009 by JThompson

[Fireant]

The "Quinn Guy" sent you an email.

I'm not sure a mount is a cure all no matter who makes it. It might help you with your issue and it might not. It's all about your index and presentation. If you find irons well than this should help.

+1 I actually have 2 issues in open, finding the dot on the draw and finding it when switching to weak hand only. I had hoped the Quinn was a fix all, but it only solved the find the dot on the draw issue. That is no fault of the mount, it is all shooter error. I think the Quinn mounts biggest problem solver is to let you use junk range brass and help your gun runn better, since it open up the ejection side of the gun.

[SA Friday]

Caveat; I'm not an open gun shooter, but JT is right. The mount might help, but ultimately this is an index issue and until you address the real problem you will struggle to find the dot regardless of the mount. The mount might make the presentation at draw easier because the dot will be at a location closer to the iron sights, but the real test will be finding the dot when leaning out around a barricade to the left and right and finding the dot on funny angled and body positioned shots.

Changing divisions is harder than people give it credit. Changing from irons to open has got to be even harder. An open gun, although easier to shoot, magnifies inconsistant form. There is no such thing as taking the front sight high or low, there is no such thing as an 'good enough for an A' sight picture. Either the dot is there or it isn't, and your body and mind are learning how to process and utilize with you can SEE.

I would suggest you add a couple more drills to your dry fire practice. Find a door and draw to presentation using the sides of the door as a barricade, both right and left sides. Also, during live fire practice, I would recommend enlisting the assistance of a really good open shooter to evaluate your form and index and help determine where your index is breaking down and causing you to lose the dot.

[CocoBolo]

SA Friday you are spot on. I had one of those good open shooters go off on me a couple matches ago Kevin G and he said I wasn't pushing the gun out far enough, I was getting comfortable instead. So I worked on that, it helped some. I shot a couple of matches limited and it all broke down again.

If the Quinn makes it easier, it is worth it, may not be a cure just might make it easier. But it to will require good indexing and form as well as a lot of practice.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I just switched to Open 18 months ago, and still

having trouble "finding the dot" at times (not all

the time). I guess it doesn't help too much that

I shoot Limited division also.

One little trick that "helps" a lot, is to line up

the knob on top of the C-More with the target,

and usually the red dot appears right there.

Not sure I explained that real well, but it helps

to align some part of the sight so that you know

you're centered in the scope.

Jack

[Jeff686]

I had a cmore on my open gun with the traditional mount. It worked OK, but I had the same problem as described above. I wanted to try a tube dot, but was unwilling to pay $500 for a Aimpoint Micro and custom mount (now not necessary), so I found a used Aimpoint CompM XD and mount on the cheap. I love it! I will never go back to C-More. There's something about the tube that lets me quickly and easily find the dot and get on target. It's like having two sights, one for localization, and one for real aiming. My eye and mind seem to use the tube to point he gun and find the dot, then I use the dot to shoot. I've even shot a stage without the dot once, and didn't have any mikes. I'd like to see a C-more guy do that without a lot of trouble.

[Zerwas]

I also use an Aimpoint Micro... I tried a C-More several times in the past, always had the same issue, couldn't find the dot and also had problems when I thought the dot was on the target and yet still kept missing.

+1. Just switched to the Aimpoint in February, have had no problems picking up the dot yet. And it works very well. Extremely reliable and built like a tank.

[CocoBolo]

Jack - Lots of little things can help, one I found is just transition to next target then go back, pull the gun in push it back out, look for dot reflection in the top or bottom etc. All take time the thing we are fighting.

Keep in mind these were a few months ago when I was a "D" shooting 30% now "C" in the 50's.

No dot hunt in this stage, just taking it easy making good hits: http://sp.sashooter.apps4rent.info/Sage%20...n/ronStage3.wmv

Now for some serious C-More shuffle: http://sp.sashooter.apps4rent.info/Sage%20...n/ronStage4.wmv

[Supermoto]

I switched from a C-more to a Jpoint on a frame mount. It took a little dry firing to re-index to the new lower height. You have to put the time in with dry firing. its the only way to consistently find the dot with any design

[BritinUSA]

Dry-firing is on my list for this week. I had a few issues lately with picking up the dot on strong/weak hand stages. Also had an issue with mag changes, my belt is at a different height now and it seems to be throwing me off for some reason.

[G-ManBart]

After 6 months of attempting to shoot open with a conventional C-More mount, I have come to the reliazation that I am not making progress. Yes, I dry and wet fire. Out of the holster I pick up the dot but when you are leaning around obstacles, pointing thru low or off angle ports etc much time is wasted. Having the opportunity to shoot open and limited on the same course of fire several times I was always faster by as much a 10 seconds with my limited gun. In a steel match where not a lot of movment is required I do fine, but a USPSA match just does not go well.

Based on these comments and where you later talk about taking shots where the dot "is there" but you have a miss, the distances you talk about missing at and a few other comments I'm wondering if you're looking at the dot rather than just simply looking through the scope. For most people it's much harder to find the dot on the draw than it is while moving in and out of positions.

Try setting up a couple of targets for dry fire that duplicate situations where you might typically lose the dot. Try them with a piece of paper or thin cardboard over the front of the lens and see what happens. If you're looking for the dot you'll find that you can see the dot, but not the target or anything around it which indicates your eye focus is still thinking iron sights....doesn't work well at all with a scope. A good buddy of mine was struggling with that a year ago, and I saw what was happening while watching some video of him....he made Master in Open last update

[larry cazes]

I started shooting open 3 years ago with a Cmore and could not get used to the Cmore hunt for the dot syndrome. I switched to tube sights and have never looked back. I use Aimpoints on all of our open guns. The best thing is that the dot is very close to where the top of the front sight is on my limited guns so I can switch back and forth with no adjustments at all. There are other real advantages to using a tube sight over a Cmore.....Lots of good info in the archives on the trade offs of each.

[rishii]

switch to open back in 94, started with a tasco pdp2, pdp3, adco, etc, tube sights all. switched to a c-more around 10 years ago, and never looked back. and unlike a lot of guys, I never had a problem picking up the dot. well almost never.

about a month ago, I got a quinn mount, and after about 30 seconds of dry fire, I won the match with it.

I had problems finding the dot going from a regular c-more mount to the quinn mount, but once I found it, I liked how it tracked. I also like that on close upper A/B shots, I didn't have to remember to hold high.

and of course because it sits so low, no blast shield needed, and the ejection port is clear, so your ejector and extractor don't have to be set up perfectly to run.

[CocoBolo]

Finally got the Quinn mount on the gun. The guys at the gun shop and of course the customers that came in all had to try it out. It was about a 50/50 split on if it was good or bad, but all agreed it makes a gun ugly.

When I got it home I did about 15 minutes of dry fire. The first and most prominent feature is that Weak hand and Strong Hand are just fantastic throw it up and wow its there. Coming off the draw my consistencey of acquiring the dot improved, but the biggest difference is that it is spot on to where it should be, you know I'm ready to break the shot, no adjustment.

I'm going to give it a ride this weekend at two matches and see how it goes.

[JThompson]

Finally got the Quinn mount on the gun. The guys at the gun shop and of course the customers that came in all had to try it out. It was about a 50/50 split on if it was good or bad, but all agreed it makes a gun ugly.

When I got it home I did about 15 minutes of dry fire. The first and most prominent feature is that Weak hand and Strong Hand are just fantastic throw it up and wow its there. Coming off the draw my consistencey of acquiring the dot improved, but the biggest difference is that it is spot on to where it should be, you know I'm ready to break the shot, no adjustment.

I'm going to give it a ride this weekend at two matches and see how it goes.

Hey! Don't you be calling my daughter ugly!

I do understand and it's one of the reasons I made the Quinn II. I never really thought of the first as "ugly," but you know a father never thinks his daughter ugly. Anyway, I think my second child is less "physically challenged."

Edited July 16, 2009 by JThompson

[Flyin40]

After 6 months of attempting to shoot open with a conventional C-More mount, I have come to the reliazation that I am not making progress. Yes, I dry and wet fire. Out of the holster I pick up the dot but when you are leaning around obstacles, pointing thru low or off angle ports etc much time is wasted. Having the opportunity to shoot open and limited on the same course of fire several times I was always faster by as much a 10 seconds with my limited gun. In a steel match where not a lot of movment is required I do fine, but a USPSA match just does not go well.

The Jpoint isn't an opion as my STI open guns slides are cut down in the back. I am also left eye dominant righ handed near and far sighted so the Jpoint would be too close to the eye. Yes I have fuzzy rear site but good front sight using single vision glasses and can make good hit with Iron sights. Better hits with the dot at smaller targets at longer ranges, like a Texas Star at 28 yards.

So I am thinking that the Barry mount may be the only thing that can push me over the top, with the C-more and also keep me from having to relearn the index when I shoot Open.

Any body got direct knowledge of this?

A couple of questions

Do you shoot right or left handed??

Which eye do you aim with??

Do you shoot with both eyes open??

With the Cmore do you use target focus or dot focus??

Do you shoot limited with Both eyes open??

Flyin