ErikW Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 (edited) What's the best way to schedule a 150-shooter match on the weekend? Assume a bunch of people have to drive 2 hours or more, and a bunch of people live within 1.5 hours of the range. All day both days? Half day Sunday? Edited October 18, 2003 by Erik Warren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 hi erik, first, howmany stages? i think the best scheduling is all day saturday, and half on sunday. eight to ten stages this works fine. lynn p s you shot a lot i know, go on your own experiences with matches that you had fun at and ran well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Hi Eric, Let's assume we're at Richmond. 100 shooters/5 bays = 20 shooters per squad with all competitors shooting. At 20 shooters x 6 minutes per shooter = 120 minutes per stage or 2.00 hours. The six minutes per shooter goes from LMR to the next shooter in the box. Again figuring five stages if you did the following schedule, it could work: 08:00 Shooting starts 10:00 Stage 1 complete/Stage 2 start 12:00 Stage 2 complete LUNCH & Target change 01:30 Shooting starts 03:30 Stage 3 complete Sunday 08:00 Shooting starts 10:00 Stage 4 complete/Stage 5 start 12:00 Stage 5 complete LUNCH & Tear down 01:00 Scores entered/protest period begins 02:00 Protest period over (if not waived)/Start awards, etc. 03:00 Match complete Now the big negative is a 20 person squad where you'll have 8 people working/shooting and 12 people hangin' out. So, you might want to consider two flights of shooters, dropping stage time to 1 hour per stage and having alternating start times for the day (Flight # 1 @ 8am; Flight # 2 @ 9am). Again, this is assuming 5 stages and a match crew that gets folks working and shooting. I would also advise that at each stage there be a permanent CRO. Let me know if you need assistance. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted October 17, 2003 Author Share Posted October 17, 2003 Nine stages... up to 150 shooters. I thought it was about 100 shooters when I asked the question, and since then I learned up to 150. That makes a half-Sunday a real stretch. Permanent CROs.... Rich, if you're gonna dream, it's good to dream big. Six minutes per shooter is sloth-like. Four is good. Fifteen-person squads are too much. If you fail to turn around shooters in 4 minutes they're there for over an hour per stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I like to figure 4 minute per shooter. That takes RO's that stay with the stage. And the stages can't be breaking (in any number of ways...include rule differences), requiring reshoots. And, they need to score and reset quickly. You always have one person shooting, one on-deck, & one that just got done shooting. That is 3 shooters that aren't helping to reset. I think the bare minimum per squad has to be 6 (that give 3 workers). Anyway... At 4 minutes and 9 stages, each shooter on a squad adds 36 minutes to the day. If you want to rotate at about an hour, figure 5 minute for travel between stage, 5 more for a walk-thru, and a spare 5 for any reshoots or problems. That leave 45 minutes. 4 minutes per shooter, into 45 minutes, give you 11 on a squad. 9 squads of 11 = 99 shooters. That would be 9 hours of shooting (I'll bet you'd get done a little early if everybody was real experienced, and the stages where tweaked for smooth running). Figure in lunch somewhere. The staff will need to be there longer, before and after. Sounds like you'd wan't to look at smaller squads, over two days. Lotta work to put on a 150 shooter match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Erik, I've succesfully run several local 7-stages matches of up to 200 competitors ot this basis: 4 half-day shifts, each competitor shoots the whole match in one single shift. Shifts: Saturday 8:00-12:00 Saturday 12:30-16:30 Sunday 8:00-12:00 Sunday 12:30-16:30 Squads: 5 to 7 competitors in each squad x 7 squads = 49 competitors each shift. This leads to have about 30 mins per each squad on each stage (with 4 mins spare time after each squad), that equals about 4 mins per competitor in each stage in the worst case. This format has been greatly appreciated by people living 2/4 hours drive from the range, because they had the choice of deciding if they would wake up early in the morning, but get home in the early afternoon, or drive in the morning, shoot in the afternoon, and still get home at a decent time. Of course you will need a full-time statt officer, to have match results ready by about 30 mins after the last shot in the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRNinTX Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 EriK, I would contact Larry Houck. Larry runs the Summer Blast here in VA on Fathers' Day weekend. It is one of the smoothest running matches there is and the shooters always seem to have a good time. 10 stages in 1/2 day format. He shoots 1/2 days on Fri. PM, Sat AM & PM and Sun AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Heiter Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Erik, I think the best thing to do is to follow the CRO course information. Figure five minutes per shooter per stage plus five minutes for walk through. It probably won't take quite that long but that cushion is nice to have if weather delays, etc. pop up. If your match runs ahead of schedule your shooters will thank you anyway. I like the half day shift thing in some instances because everyone gets to shoot the match quickly and the down time between shooting is low. With five or six shooters per squad, everyone gets to shoot every thirty minutes or so. 10 shooters per squad on a full day schedule and you're suddenly waiting 55 minutes or more between trigger time opportunities which can make a day drag on. The problem with that sort of schedule is if you want to have everyone around after the match. If you're going to do a prize table or awards I think it would be better to go with full day schedules where everyone shoots 2/3'rds of the match on Sat. and the final 1/3rd Sunday morning. We just ran one this past weekend on that schedule. 10 squads, 10 places to go (8 stages plus a break and chrono station), a split lunch so only half the competitors were at lunch at a time to make it easier on vendors, etc. Everything ran ahead of schedule and we had awards passed out and everyone on their way home by 1:00 on Sunday. Of course that was with only about 110 competitors though so I'm not sure what another 40 competitors would do to the schedule. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 you should be able to run 75 shooters through nine stages+chrono in one day (7-8 shooters per squad, 4-5 min per shooter+10 min). Therefore why not let half of them shoot Sat, other half Sun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Hi Erik, I know it's pretty ambitious, but it was worth a thought. Heck, I'll work for you. With 150 shooters, I think that you're looking at 1-2/3 days (finishing shooting around 3pm) to 2 days without question. 150 shooters x 5 minutes per = 750 minutes. Take that and divide by 9 stages and that's a per stage time of 84 minutes (rounding up). What will probably work well, then is to do two flights of shooters, where one group is one and one group is off. Alternate for Sunday and finish around late-afternoon. If you cut the number of shooters down to 8-9 making 18 squads. I think that I have your e-mail address. I'll send you a schedule that shows it. Basically the odd numbers start at 8am on Saturday and are on one hour and off one hour. One hour lunch for each group of 9 squads (seperately for ease of getting food and visiting any vendors...if applicable). Check it out and let me know what you think. Rich P.S. Is this match going to be around here somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 on one h off next h was the schedule at last year's RGNs. It was the worst schedule I ever experienced at an IPSC match, and lead to widespread frustration and opposition (among others, by Erik...). Don't! --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted October 18, 2003 Author Share Posted October 18, 2003 I can manage half the people shooting all day Sat. and the other half shooting all day Sun. Or I can manage everybody doing a half day both days. If I do an all-day squad schedule, the Sat. squads have to make another trip to the range for awards and shoot-offs Sunday. If I do a half-day schedule, everybody has to come both days. But it's easier to schedule ROs that way. Hour-on/hour-off ain't gonna happen. I'd be lynched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Try and avoid running 2 stages in one bay,it creates an incredible bottle neck. Also if you opt for open squadding, have the #2 r.o. do a roll call every few shooters ,if no one answers put their sheet to the botom of the stack.this will eliminate the folks who feel it necessary to put their sheets on every stage at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted October 18, 2003 Author Share Posted October 18, 2003 This match has had open squadding the last few years. It has a serious problem with newcomers getting their scoresheets on top, which leads to hard feelings from the waiting shooters on the bottom. You can tell the ROs what to do to avoid it, but you can't make them do it. GSSF has a whole page of fine print on how to manage open squadding. I don't want people getting pissed off and going home early. Silly me, I plan to run four doubled-up short stages on two ranges. I've seen it work well. It hasn't worked well when I've tried it in the past. I'm thinking of cutting it back to 7 seven stages instead of 9 and not double up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherErik Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Erik, GO BIG! Divide those big ranges up with dumpsters like they do at Area2. Keeps the stage count up and eliminates the bottleneck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted October 18, 2003 Author Share Posted October 18, 2003 Great idea, but I don't think they could get the dumpsters in there. I'll have to look into the rental cost. "Hello, I want two of your big-ass dumpsters for the weekend. Can I get a discount if they're empty when you pick them up? Oh, I'm just going to use them as bullet barriers. Hello? Hello?" What I'm thinking of doing on the doubled-up stages is this... one set of ROs for the two stages. One squad per stage. RO runs one shooter, then the other, then scores them both. We're talking short and sweet speed shoot type courses, 12-20 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Erik, Larry Houck had 4 stages at the summer blast sharing one really big bay. Bays were big enough and stages were angled well enouhat two shooters could be shooting stages at the same time. One set of R.O.s per pair of stages. Shooter got LAMR for the first stage, shot it; was allowed to top off and walked to the second start position, shot that and both stages were then scored. In each case one of the stages was a 6 or 8 round fixed position (one picnic table, one box) speed shoot, the other was a 12-16 round medium course with movement. The squads moved through quickly and smoothly.... and above all safely. It's all in the planning.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahana Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Erik, Last I heard Richmond Sanitary 14yd dumpsters were $400+ each for drop and pick up............ not to mention the idea of sheet steel for balistic dividers........ laters, gr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherErik Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 "Hello, I want two of your big-ass dumpsters for the weekend. Can I get a discount if they're empty when you pick them up? Oh, I'm just going to use them as bullet barriers. Hello? Hello?". Never hurt to ask... You could easily get one back to the large bay. the public side im not too sure of. I haven't really looked over there in a while. I bet they give you a deal if they are empty not to mention the idea of sheet steel for balistic dividers........ Its not like we are using them for backstops geez.... As if rotten railroad ties are better? They worked really well at Area 2. The stages were set so that no shots would even come close to the dumpsters. Maybe someoen wo has worked the A2 match can chime in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 The West Virginia State IDPA match used concrete blocks to divide a big bay into 3 bays. I think they used 2 blocks thick and just stacked them without morter. Set the block then tap it or something. You need to level where you put the blocks but they are really solid. I think they tested the blocks by firing a .223 into them at 90 degrees. Nothing got through. Any errant shots fired during a match would be lower powered rounds and would hit a glancing blow. Bill Nesbitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 Do Open Squadding with the last shot fired at 2:00 pm Sunday - leave it up to the shooters to get through. Oh but wait, you fired me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted October 20, 2003 Share Posted October 20, 2003 Just shot the OK Sectional..... it was 12 stages over 2 days. We had @ 10 per squad - 8 stages Sat started 9 am Sat and were done shooting Sat @ 3, Started shooting remaining 4 stages Sunday at 9 were done by noon. Scoring complete, awards handed out and everyone back on road (including a side match man on man steel match while scores were done) by 2 PM. Amazing efficiency. Oh yeah, and 2 stages per bay, 6 bays. But then again there was less than 60 shooters. Anyway, great match! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 11 shooters x 4 minutes x 7 stages plus 5 minutes for reading the walk-thru and doing the IPSC Conga plus 5 minutes to go from stage to stage equals 6 hours and 18 minutes for the match, a LONG day that is for 66 shooters. This is the basic math to work out the squadding. Number of shooters x minutes minimum to clear x number of stages add in the walk-through and travel and you have the answer. If you have dedicated RO staff of a minimum of 2 perstage with 3 being better, you can cut the clearence to about 3-1/2 minutes, 3 is asking a lot. You can run your match in a one day, two day or half day format by applying the match above to the available number of hours. 8 stages in 4 hours, one hour lunch and 4 hours in the afternoon is possible. You have to clear a squad in 30 minutes from walk-through to walk-through. thats 48 shooters in a flight x 4 flights, you can shoot 192 shooters in 2 days. 6 per squad. You MUST HAVE 24 DEDICATED RO's and assistants to accomplish this. You also have left no time for a reshoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Suber Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 The Summer Blast is an excellent example of a well run match. Larry puts together great stages and a good crew. However, the person behind the squadding and scheduling is Linda Chico. She has this down to a science (an art). She does the scheduling/scoring/squadding for the Area 6, Tennesee Champ., South Carolina Champ (150 shooters, one day format)., etc. Unless there is a problem on a stage, everything goes very smoothly and the finals are posted within 10 - 15 minutes of the last shot being fired. If I were asked to be a match director of a large match, I would not accept the position unless I could be assured that Linda would be there to handle the logistics. Hey, come down to the South Carolina Sectional or the Area 6 and see for yourself! Take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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