ironb Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Shot a stage a few weeks ago. I actually, for a change, did fairly well on the stage and was pretty surprised. So surprised, I removed the mag and then I forgot to clear the round in the chamber before I put the hammer down. The gun went BANG. I had the gun pointing down range where it was supposed to be pointed, so no one was hurt. But it sure scared the hell out of me and the RO. No one really said anything, but I'm sure I'll never do that stupid thing again. I've done some stupid things, but this one takes the cake. (I actually have it on tape) So please, dont be an idiot like me, make sure to clear the round in the chamber before drop'n the hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 You do get a nice trip to Dairy Queen for that one. I did that once in practice, got my mind on something else and didn't drop the mag. BANG!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm52 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Where was the RO when show clear command was given? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I always look at the RO when ULSC commands are given and only obey the commands as they are given. I had an RO once distracted by the score keeper and while looking over his shoulder called the range clear and I still had my gun out. I shouted "woah" and he said oops ICHD and H. I am not one of those types to get carried away and try to rush the gun back into the holster. When the RO says If you are finished, the race is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronEqualizer Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Yep......Done the same thing in practice once. And yes it really does scare the total crap out of you when a gun in your hand goes bang when it is not supposed to you. Messes with your mind. Kinda like when you pick up a glass of coke, take a swig and you think it's tea. Just did that. AL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Yep......Done the same thing in practice once. And yes it really does scare the total crap out of you when a gun in your hand goes bang when it is not supposed to you. Messes with your mind. Kinda like when you pick up a glass of coke, take a swig and you think it's tea. Just did that.AL Ya, only you don't have to change your shorts with the Coke thing. I always show my chamber to the RO... I get annoyed when it's in the holster before I get to IF CLEAR. I've saved a couple guys from DQing that way. I'm like DUDE, the clock isn't running... slow the #($($ down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironb Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 I found the clip, here it is... Hard to tell the RO's reaction since the clip was cut short. but you can hear the extra "bang" at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbs007 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Whoa! Watching I forgot it's about the AD and I went WHOA! Must have sucked man; but you did learn something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Was that a case of ULSC or finger in the trigger guard? Watching the video, the finger never comes out of the trigger guard. It looks like an AD more than a "forgot to rack the slide" to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 The gun went BANG....But it sure scared the hell out of me and the RO. ... No one really said anything... Just so you (and all the readers) know...that is an obvious DQ. Your club needs some experience in stage design and RO'ing. I recall watching some of your vids a while back and the stage had you shooters all over the 180...due to the stage design. In fact, you may have broke the 180 as you holstered up on that stage. (add the above in with the 180 and we have REAL scary issues) I don't mean to dog-pile, but this safety stuff is most important. [edit to add] This is the stage that I watched a while back. It's a freakin' mess from a design stand-point. Shooters are all over the 180...for no good reason. And the RO...somewhere downrange he has to go from following the shooter to getting in front of the shooter. The shooter ends up right on the 180 during the ULASC...and, really, ends up pointed uprange just a bit before the hand leaves the holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 The group I go to matches with most frequently are a friendly and jovial bunch with a lot of making fun of each other, except when it comes to safety. I got a bit ahead of myself once and acted before the "if clear..." command and got called on it. No penalty but I had to show clear and do it right again and the RO made a point of reminding me on the next stage. And I am not alone on that. I've seen the same RO's chastise someone who's been shooting for years for exactly the same thing. At what must have been my second match, an experienced shooter screwed up and set off a round under similar circumstances on the first stage. He left the stage and went to the safety area, bagged his gun, came back and took off his gear, then stayed with the group and taped every stage the rest of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spray_N_Prey Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) I had the gun pointing down range where it was supposed to be pointed, so no one was hurt. But it sure scared the hell out of me and the RO. No one really said anything, but I'm sure I'll never do that stupid thing again. yeah that's one of those times that it's not a judgement call (I.E. looks like finger was in trigger guard, looked like a 180), it's a fact and by having RO's not doing their job might make some shooters think twice before going back. I was at a match to where the shooter was moving foward performing a mag change and had gun pointed straight up in the air, sent two straight up while doing a mag change. I think he ended up with some flash burns on his face. There's like 4 or 5 DQ's in there. Shooter stopped long enough to look at RO, who said nothing and continue to shoot the stage. Kinda made me think twice about wanting to go back. Yep that's a trip down to the DQ for one of those fantastic blizzards. Edited June 10, 2009 by Spray_N_Prey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atbarr Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Yep......Done the same thing in practice once. And yes it really does scare the total crap out of you when a gun in your hand goes bang when it is not supposed to you. Messes with your mind. Kinda like when you pick up a glass of coke, take a swig and you think it's tea. Just did that.AL Ya, only you don't have to change your shorts with the Coke thing. I always show my chamber to the RO... I get annoyed when it's in the holster before I get to IF CLEAR. I've saved a couple guys from DQing that way. I'm like DUDE, the clock isn't running... slow the #($($ down. At my club Blue Grass Sportsman http://www.bgslinc.com/ we HAVE to show an empty chamber. Stay Safe, A.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 At my club Blue Grass Sportsman http://www.bgslinc.com/ we HAVE to show an empty chamber. Stay Safe, A.T. According to Rule 8.3.6, this should be the case at every club. 8.3.6 “If You Are Finished, Unload And Show Clear” – If the competitor has finished shooting, he must lower his handgun and present it for inspection by the Range Officer with the muzzle pointed down range, magazine removed, slide locked or held open, and chamber empty. Revolvers must be presented with the cylinder swung out and empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) Just so you (and all the readers) know...that is an obvious DQ. Flex, I read Rule 10.4.3 but the exception 10.4.3.1 made things a bit confusing. Wouldn't the OP discharge fall under this exception? 10.4.3 A shot which occurs while loading, reloading or unloading a handgun. This includes any shot fired during the procedures outlined in Rule 8.3.1 and Rule 8.3.7. >> 10.4.3.1 Exception – a detonation, which occurs while unloading a handgun, is not considered a shot or discharge subject to a match disqualification, however, Rule 5.1.6 may apply. Edited to add: Let me clarify... What I meant to say is that, if the shot happened after the “If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster” command, the shooter would have been DO'd as per Rule 8.3.7 but if the RO hadn't said this yet, he wouldn't have been DQ'd. Is this right or am reading these rules all wrong. BTW I am not trying to be argumentative. I am not RO certified, I am just trying to understand these rules. Edited June 10, 2009 by Cy Soto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironb Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 Flex, I read Rule 10.4.3 but the exception 10.4.3.1 made things a bit confusing. Wouldn't the OP discharge fall under this exception? 10.4.3 A shot which occurs while loading, reloading or unloading a handgun. This includes any shot fired during the procedures outlined in Rule 8.3.1 and Rule 8.3.7. >> 10.4.3.1 Exception – a detonation, which occurs while unloading a handgun, is not considered a shot or discharge subject to a match disqualification, however, Rule 5.1.6 may apply. Interesting. Maybe that's why I didnt get a trip to blizzard heaven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 A detonation here is meant to cover the round igniting if the ejector hits the live primer as the round is being manually extracted. I think there is a definintion in the rule book glossary that a "shot" is only when the round's bullet passes through the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h2osport Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Just so you (and all the readers) know...that is an obvious DQ. Flex, I read Rule 10.4.3 but the exception 10.4.3.1 made things a bit confusing. Wouldn't the OP discharge fall under this exception? 10.4.3 A shot which occurs while loading, reloading or unloading a handgun. This includes any shot fired during the procedures outlined in Rule 8.3.1 and Rule 8.3.7. >> 10.4.3.1 Exception – a detonation, which occurs while unloading a handgun, is not considered a shot or discharge subject to a match disqualification, however, Rule 5.1.6 may apply. Edited to add: Let me clarify... What I meant to say is that, if the shot happened after the “If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster” command, the shooter would have been DO'd as per Rule 8.3.7 but if the RO hadn't said this yet, he wouldn't have been DQ'd. Is this right or am reading these rules all wrong. BTW I am not trying to be argumentative. I am not RO certified, I am just trying to understand these rules. If the ULSC command had not been given, then the shooter would have had his finger in the trigger gaurd durring a reload, and I would think it is still a DQ. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 It appeared to be an AD, bbl pointed down range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouSlide Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) The COF isn't complete until the "Range is Clear" command, per 8.3.8. DQ for AD per 10.4.3. Even if the R.O. failed to verify a clear chamber, the responsibility is the shooter's, as is the DQ in this case. Curtis Edited: because I hate typos! Edited June 10, 2009 by BayouSlide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I'm sure I'll never do that stupid thing again. I touched one off at an indoor range practicing with my flashlight. My weak hand index finger knuckle bumped the go button as I was coming on target in the dark. It was very exciting!! I also had a slam fire when I was learning how to do 1911 trigger jobs. That was also very exciting!! After these two incidents, I've come to realize that the only thing you're sure to do is never forget that it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 It was not a "detonation" and the shooter was not "engaging targets". Clear DQ It could be written up as a DQ for finger in the trigger guard and as an AD. I usually write them up as both (all that apply). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 (edited) Wow Its a DQ and I hope everybody agrees, poor gun handling, period. Nothing personal. When a gun goes off and you weren't wanting it to, thats a bad one don't ya think. The RO should be talked to also for not looking at chamber much less not DQing him. Edited June 11, 2009 by BSeevers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 The whole "nobody really said anything" bothered me. As I said in my OP... That was a clear DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 (edited) I don't mean to dog-pile, but this safety stuff is most important. Yeah, I know what you mean. The AD in the video isn't the only concern that I would have as a MD. The problem is how to learn from our mistakes, develop good habits, and keep everyone safe without alienating shooters and becoming overly critical of those who don't meet our expectations. Edited June 11, 2009 by Ron Ankeny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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