Kill Bill

[John Dunn]

Because just being in a casino makes me sad (hate to watch little old ladies chain smoke and pour their SS checks into the slots), I watched a couple movies during the down time of the Infinity Open. Both were great.

Kill Bill was highly stylized and ultraviolent, but it was comic book violence, and very well done. I loved the fact that the team of hit people was called "The Deadly Viper Assassination Squad." It's a must see.

School of Rock was also awesome. Jack Black essentially plays the role of Rudy, set in the rock world. He just never gives up on the dream, no matter how much reality kicks him around. Thought some of the kids did a great job as well. See it. Now I have to go buy some classic rock!

[MBaneACP]

Say what you will abut QT, but I loved KILL BILL. Sections with Sonny Chiba and Uma Thurman were knife lust personified. Plus, you just gotta go with psychotic 17-year-old assassins named Go-Go who dress in schoolgirl outfits...well, maybe not if you're a *girl*...

mb

[Duane Thomas]

Okay, now you know I've got to see this movie. Look at what you've done.

[benos]

[bummer mode] I thought about the movie quite a bit. I mean comon, it is Tarantino, right?! What am I missing? But basically I was disappointed. It was like, what - Sam Peckinpah on steroids meets comic-book-hot-chick-assassination squad. I didn't find it well crafted, clever, or engaging in any way, as I'd normally expect from Tarantino.[/bm]

[rhino]

"School of Rock" was excellent! I'll be buying a copy when it hits DVD.

It was essentially a vehicle for Jack Black to be "Jack Black," but the supporting cast was every bit as good. Joan Cusack is always a scene stealer and she did not disappoint this time. The kids were wonderful, especially "Summer."

[John Dunn]

Come on, BE. How can you not like a movie where the hero tells a 4 year old daughter that her dead mother had it coming? Come to think, maybe it's not for everyone.

[tightloop]

I'm with you BE, didn't like it much at all.

[Nik Habicht]

Finally saw it on DVD last night, can't wait for the sequel --- which fortunately opens Friday. I was enthralled and delighted, think it's one of the beeter films I've seen in recent years --- but will reserve final judgement until I've seen it a couple of more times.

Brian,

would it have gone over any better if you knew that QT said that Sergio Leone's "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" was the best movie ever made? There were elements in Kill Bill Vol. 1 that seemed like an homage to Leone's work --- particularly during the Anime sequence detailing the origin of Lucy Liu's character....

Of course QT is mistaken --- I've decided that the best movie ever made was Leone's "Once upon a Time in the West." But, what do I know?

[Duane Thomas]

I would be awfully hard to make a case against Once Upon a Time In the West being the best Western ever made.

[Run n Gun]

Warning: THREAD DRIFT ALERT!!!!

Of course I was raised on Westerns both in film and on TV and the one thing you could bank on was that the good guy would prevail in the end and that the top name actors were ALWAYS the good guys.

It’s Saturday, I check the paper and there’s a western on at the theater with Henry Fonda, Charles Bronson, Jack Elam and Jason Robards… cool! I get there early and get my popcorn and pop and find a seat way down in front (you do that when you’re a teenager, now I sit as far BACK as possible). The movie starts and in the first few scenes HENRY FONDA GUNS DOWN A LITTLE KID AND DOES IT IN COLD BLOOD!!!!

Without hyperbole I can say that I never looked at the world the same again. Things aren’t always predictable, good guys aren’t always good and in fact, “good” is usually a relative term and a “good thing to do” isn’t interchangeable with the “right thing to do”.

I’ll shut up now…

Ed

[Nik Habicht]

I had a similar reaction when I first saw it around 1980 in a movie theatre in Hamburg, Germany, with my cousin --- who still considers it one of the slowest, dullest movies ever made.

Here's a cool tidbit from Sergio Leone's biography: The three gunslingers waiting for Bronson at the beginning of the movie were supposed to be Eli Wallach, Lee VanCleef and Clint Eastwood. Leone wanted to indicate by the end of the title sequence, that this film was going to be very different from the three westerns that had preceded it. Eastwood apparently balked. It's hard to imagine the impact of the sequence with different actors --- but play it in your head for a moment away --- it's 1968, you've seen at least "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly," here's Wallach trapping a fly, Van Cleef cracking his knuckles, and Eastwood drinking out of his hat....

[Flexmoney]

I've never associated the actual names with any of the good westerns. Is this the one with the harmonica that Henry gave to chuck when he was little, and Chuck give back to Henry in the end?

If so...did I read this on here...or catch it on TV ( 'cause the flick was on the other day...)?

Fonda grew a beard and wore brown contacts (didn't think people would buy him as a baddie with those baby blues). When he showed up for filming, the director had him shave and take out the contacts. He wanted the good guy image that Fonda brought to the film.

[Nik Habicht]

Kyle,

Yes, right movie. Leone, slowly over a period of days, had Fonda re-transform himself --- and Fonday said in an interview later, that the moment he saw the camera movement as they approached the kid, he understood what Leone had in mind. This was also one of the first films that really thrilled me visually --- and that continues to hold my interest (and occasionally influences my photography) to this day....

[rhino]

It's been a long time since I've seen it. I wish the Western Channel would show it ... they show a lot of crappy black and white sub-B westerns and very few of the hundreds of good westerns available. It's almost not worth having, but it was part of the package deal.

I'm not sure which western is my absolute favorite... I like many of them.

The Searchers

Big Jake

The Cowboys

almost everything John Wayne did after the 50s or so, really

Tombstone

Unforgiven

Quigley Down Under

Lonesome Dove

Shane

Outlaw Josey Wales

The Magnificent Seven

Silverado

etc. etc.

[Nik Habicht]

Rhino,

It's out on DVD, in a gorgeous widescreen presentation --- and this is one film that really should not be seen in the chopped TV version. I like every one of the films on your list....

[Jim Norman]

Outlaw Josey Wales

Quigley Down Under

Big Jake

Good Bad & Ugly

Magnificent Seven

All good but not all for the same reasons.

[kellyn]

I liked Kill Bill and am anxious to see the 2d installment, particularly the Uma/Darryl fight scene (yummy! ) It's a hyperkinetic homage to films past.

Best Western? Three way tie between The Searchers, Rio Bravo, and The Wild Bunch.

[Sam]

OK I didn't drift this thread, it was already Teddy-off-the-bridge. But since it did drift, I always considered True Grit to be the greatest western of all time.

And yes, I realize that this is "pretty tough talk, for a one-eyed fat man".

[Duane Thomas]

I've been told that, while putting together the script, Sergio Leone and Henry Fonda were sitting around a table trying to imagine the most shocking thing Frank could do to start the movie, and idea was Fonda's. Even today that scene packs a punch. I can only imagine how hard it hit audiences in the theaters back in the day. I'm also told that when Fonda wanted to wear the dark contacts, Leone said, "No, no, no! Give me the baby blues!"

Interesting thing about Henry Fonda's portrayal of Frank. Back in 1939 Fonda co-starred with Tyrone Power in a movie called Jesse James in which Power played Jesse and Fonda played Jesse's brother, Frank. At the end of the movie Jesse dies, Frank survives. This was the role in which Henry Fonda really caught people's attention, so much so that one year later, in 1940, there was a sequel, The Return of Frank James, with Henry Fonda, natch, reprising the role. They're both good movies, well worth your time.

Now, in Once Upon a Time In the West they never say that "Frank" is Frank James later in life. It's fascinating though to watch Jesse James, The Return of Frank James, and then Once Upon a Time In the West and compare Fonda's performances as Frank James to his performance as Frank no-last-name. In the two earlier movies, Frank James is truly a nice guy. When he's asked a question he'll hesitate for a split second before he answers, and the effect is of this sort of Gary Cooper, manly inability to articulate his emotions. 28 years later, he does the exact same thing in Once Upon a Time In the West, but Fonda was such a good actor, this time the effect was totally different. This time he came across a stone psycho who had to take a moment to orient himself out of his own twisted headspace into reality before he could respond.

Interestingly - and totally intentionally, I'm sure - late in the movie when we see the flashback to 30 years before - Fonda looks exactly like he did as Frank James. Incredible makeup job, completely believable. It was eerie.

[Merlin Orr]

After all the hoopla and such glowing reviews by most here I just got back from buying Kill Bill. As I love gratuitous violence and sex I expect I will also like the movie.

As to westerns...Once a Time in The West is as good as it gets IMHO. I gotta agree with RnG about the impact of Frank killing the little kid. Frank has some mean looking blue eyes in that movie.

[Duane Thomas]

When Sergio Leone began making the first of the four "spaghetti Westerns" that are the basis of most of his reputation, A Fistful of Dollars, it was on a truly shoestring budget. The movie, though effective, shows it. And he used unknown actors, most famously Clint Eastwood as The Man With No Name. But the movie was a hit and profitable. For the next two movies, Leone got progressively more money to work with, and again, the movies show it. More elaborate sets, more diverse location work, more ambitious storylines. After the first three films, finally he'd achieved enough success to get the backing for a "real movie," big budget. This was to be his masterpiece, and he was determined it would have big name actors.

In each of the first three Sergio Leone spaghetti Westerns there are basically three main characters. The first being, of course, The Man With No Name, played in A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, and The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly by Clint Eastwood. Then we have what I call the Secondary Gunslinger, usually a thief played by Eli Wallach for comic effect. Finally we have the Psycho Gunslinger, the Man With No Name's primary nemesis for the film, played most famously by Lee Van Cleef in The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

So after the first three films, in most Leone fans' minds, the breakdown went like this:

The Man With No Name = Clint Eastwood

Secondary Gunslinger = Eli Wallach

Psycho Gunslinger = Lee Van Cleef

In Once Upon a Time in the West, the Secondary Gunslinger is still a thief, but a much more competent and morally admirable character than Wallach's devious buffoon, and he's played by Jason Robards. This was a good move on Leone's part. Though I like Eli Wallach as an actor, he's no Jason Robards.

The Psycho Gunslinger is played by Henry Fonda. Another good decision. Again, while I like Lee Van Cleef as an actor, he's no Henry Fonda. Interesting to note, Fonda very rarely played a bad guy, the roles he was most known and beloved for were total nice guys like Mister Roberts or the juror in 12 Angry Men. (From reading his Playboy interview, by the way, I believe the "nice guy" impression was illusory, that in reality Henry Fonda was a pretty emotionally cold guy. But I digress.) Thus, on the few occasions he did play a bad guy, it hit audiences hard because it was so unexpected.

Finally, The Man With No Name is played by Charles Bronson instead of Clint Eastwood. And this was a mistake, I think. (Yes, there was a time when Charles Bronson was a bigger movie star than Clint Eastwood. In 1968, the spaghetti Westerns were really all Eastwood had of substance in his resume.) Bronson did so much crap in the latter part of his career, there's a tendency for people to forget - if they ever knew - that early on he did some truly fine work and was taken really seriously as an actor. However, I can't watch Once Upon a Time In the West without, in every scene with Bronson, thinking that role could have been done so much better by Clint Eastwood.

In Once Upon a Time In the West, Leone adds a fourth main character, The Woman, an ex-prostitute played by Claudia Cardinale. The fascinating thing about this character is that, though she has no combat skills, her strength of will, intelligence, sex appeal and utter willingness to use it for her purposes are such she's capable of working with or against each of the three main male characters as an equal, or more than. I love the scene where Frank finds The Woman, his mind totally made up he's going to kill her. And she flatters and manipulates and seduces and sexes him to the point he changes his mind. Definitely a woman willing and able to use every weapon at her disposal to save her life.

[Nik Habicht]

To drift this back toward Kill Bill --- I just saw Vol. 2 and was impressed and delighted. I can't wait to see the whole thing as one continuous flick....

[John Thompson]

Kill Bill killed $3- of my money and(murdered) two hours of my time. It sucked. Nothing but Japanese animation in a live action format. Although I really dig Uma

[xsrdx]

I LOVED KillBill Vol 1 - HATED Vol 2. VOL 1 was perfect QT, the dialogue and action were spectacular. The suburban knife fight, O'Rens Yakuza decapitation ( "I collect your F*ing head" ) and the final swordfight with ORI were immensely entertaining. Uma Thurman clearly relished the part, and it showed. Sonny Chiba ("Hattori Hanso") checking out his latest Katana before handing it over? Priceless.

Vol 2 was dull. Uma became vulnerable, and the fights sucked. The "showdown" with Bill, and his explanation for his ruthlessness, was lame. Daryl Hannah - and her snake - was the singular bright spot. Even Michael Madsen, usually reliable as a tough guy, was a putz.

HOW can you skip a big fight with Kung Fu, fer cryin out loud? I nearly fell asleep during the 20 minutes of chit chat that opens Vol 2. Hard to believe both movies were shot at the same time.

Best western? Unforgiven or Tombstone. TGTBATU and The Wild Bunch are close runner ups.

Tombstone: "For a man that won't go heels, you run your mouth kinda reckless, dontcha?"

"Your friends might get me in a rush, but not before I turn your head into a canoe, get it?"

Unforgiven: " I reckon I've killed nearly everything that's walked or crawled, one time or another. And I'm here to kill you, Little Bill."

Oh, yeah.

[kellyn]

Tombstone has more quotable lines than perhaps any other movie, even Pulp Fiction or Aliens. Anytime Doc speaks, it's quotable.

The one I use the most: "That's Latin, darling." Guaranteed to make my wife crack up.

Other good ones:

"Where you going with that shotgun." (good for 3 gun matches)

"Very Cosmopolitan." (good for trips to the hood to serve a warrant)

"You're a daisy if you do." (Good for telling defense counsel off)

"I'm your huckleberry." (good for challenging TGO to a single stack match)

"Wyatt, you're an oak." (good for friends in need of support)

"Then again, you may be the Anti-Christ." (good for impressing the ladies)

"I know, let's have a spelling contest." (good for shooters who are whining)

Of course Kurt Russell has the "HELL'S COMING WITH ME!!!!!" line wherein he almost reaches William Shatner "KHAN!!!" levels of scenery chewing.

It was interesting how Kill Bill 2 was western in orientation and Kill Bill 1 was eastern. I'm anxious for the DVD with both parts. Fascinating how the revenge story permeates both the Western and the Samurai movies. Revenge (a dish best served cold) is universal.

XRDS, I think they meant to show Madsen's character as a putz. He had fallen hard to new lows but he still was able to open up a six pack of whoop ass on Uma. And I was right about the Uma-Darryl fight scene.