rr4406pak Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Say you attend the National Championships and you come in first in "A" class. You come home and have a conversation with your friend: Friend: "How'd you do?" You: "I won my first National Championship!" Friend: "Wow! You beat every single person who went???" You: "Well no, not everybody." Friend: "So how are you the Champ?" You: "Well I beat everybody in my class/division." Friend: "Oh." So in this case can you really call yourself a National Champion to people who really don't know our sport? In my opinion: People seem to come off as "Well you really didn't beat everybody so you're not really a National Champ...". I get the feeling most people will take any opportunity they can to minimize your accomplishments which makes them feel better about themselves somehow and the chances they don't take in life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I'm going to vote no. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 You did win your class at nationals. You are the best (insert your class here) class shooter in (insert your division here) division this year. In my mind though the only guy who is national champion is the guy that finished 1st overall in your division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 At your division, sure, but with that distinction. Going around saying I'm the National Champion and leaving out "in B class" is bad form IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badassmcgraff Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 HOA in your division is the only way I would consider to be a champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badchad Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I'm going to vote no.Rich +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I agree class champ is not national champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 You can claim "High A" but not "National Champion in A". Only one person gets to claim "National Champion" in a given division, and that's the one who's at the top of the standings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I can't see how you could claim any 'WIN' at all.... Sure you were 1st C, but you were 397th overall... the guy that won HOA was shooting the same gun, the same ammo, and the same targets. I see the classification system as an excellent way to keep shooters motivated and give them goals to achieve, but there's really no difference between me and Tomasie other than the fact that he shot 40% better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTOSHootr Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 It isn't a champion finish, it is first in class for that match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin garcia Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I'd rephrase to: "I won [Recognized order of finish in your class] [Your Class] class in [Your division] at the [Match you Participated]". ex. I won 2nd "A" class in "Production" at the "2008 Open/Production USPSA Handgun Nationals"(something like that...) My 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I guess it depends on the person. I wouldnt go around bragging that I won something, but I may emphasise that i won my class, Which I think at a national level is a huge accomplishment. I think alot of this shooting has to do with your overall mentality and positive though. I have found that if I try and put a positive outlook on results, not only do i feel better, but I shoot better later. If you go around saying and Thinking aww I suck, I got 293rd place, you will feel like crap, but on the other hand, if you say, you know, I beat 211 really great shooters, it will really help your confidence. I would not want to take this too far, so you are arrogant about it, talking about the good, and leaving out the bad, dont hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lneel Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I can't see how you could claim any 'WIN' at all.... Sure you were 1st C, but you were 397th overall... the guy that won HOA was shooting the same gun, the same ammo, and the same targets.I see the classification system as an excellent way to keep shooters motivated and give them goals to achieve, but there's really no difference between me and Tomasie other than the fact that he shot 40% better. Hum, I'd have to think about that.....we have classifications for a reason.....why detract a D Class shooter who wins his class at Nationals? I probably have a different perspective as I have (2) 1st Place trophies from IDPA Nationals though.... Kinda like detracting a Junior or Lady Champion who shoots the same targets with the same gun, etc......I do consider them Champions at their designation, why would it not be applicable at a Class level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I see that like giving a trophy to EVERY kid that plays soccer, whether or not their team won or lost. Do I like winning 1st C? Sure. Feels like accomplishment... but I know its not HOA. Tomasie won Nationals. He's the champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraTen Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 You did win your class at nationals. You are the best (insert your class here) class shooter in (insert your division here) division this year. In my mind though the only guy who is national champion is the guy that finished 1st overall in your division. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Mike Dalton IMHO says it best. Classes are great at the club and local level as it's a measure for skill and (hopefully) spurs achievement and advancement. However, at the National and International levels, all that matters is overall finish. It's one of the oldest sayings in our sport but, if you won your class, it means you didn't win the match. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badchad Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Hum, I'd have to think about that.....we have classifications for a reason.....why detract a D Class shooter who wins his class at Nationals? I think one would only detract from him if he were going around bragging to everyone how he was a National Champion. If he said "Hey I got first in D-class" I think most everyone would say congratulations. FWIW I don't think they had a D-class award at Nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I see that like giving a trophy to EVERY kid that plays soccer, whether or not their team won or lost. Do I like winning 1st C? Sure. Feels like accomplishment... but I know its not HOA.Tomasie won Nationals. He's the champ. But you didn't give a trophy to everybody that shot the match. You gave a trophy to the winners of their class competing against others of the same skill level. They won their respective class. Did they win the match no, but they did win their class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 It would be pretty amazing if a C,D,B,A,maybe even M class shooter would win HOA in there division at the nationals anyway. I think National Champ would be HOA in your division/not class. To win your class at the nationals is a great accomplishment but you would not be the National Champ. It is great to win your class but what ever match I shoot at I look at what % I shot to the person that is HOA in my division. At local matches I look at Combined scores to see where I placed overall against all divisions. Just my .02. BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persona non grata Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I think as a hint as to how USPSA HQ views thing just look at the resutls from any major USPSA match per divisions. All the classes are jumbled in together. OTOH, look at how IDPA does it, they break out everdolby by class per division, and any jumbled together results are strictly unofficial. In USPSA, if ya ain't the lead dawg, the scenery never changes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I won B class one year at a nationals. I couldn't tell you what year. I have three observations about it: 1) I was 19th overall in the match. 2) I didn't know I'd won B class until they called my name 3) I never, not even once, considered myself a "national champion" as a result. That I recall, I'm not even certain I talked about winning B class. That's just my observation. To each their own. I don't consider a class winner to be a national champion though. Division - yes. Class, not so much. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persona non grata Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Looking at combined scores for USPSA local matches is not a good idea. EZWinScore will spit out hiccups when handing out stage pounts across divisions. I wish there was a way in EZWinscore to just rank order people by their hit factors or their total hit factors for a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-shot Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 At your division, sure, but with that distinction. Going around saying I'm the National Champion and leaving out "in B class" is bad form IMO. +1 There can only be one #1! Shake n bake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeeler Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 (edited) Looking at combined scores for USPSA local matches is not a good idea. EZWinScore will spit out hiccups when handing out stage pounts across divisions. I wish there was a way in EZWinscore to just rank order people by their hit factors or their total hit factors for a match. ??? not sure about that. This is why. Sometimes the order of finish changes from the 'By Division' report and the 'Combined' report. This is because a different Stage High Hit Factor was used to calculate the stage points. It is calculated by the highest hit factor in the match by stage. Not just the highest hit factor in your division. I could be wrong though.????????? BK Edited May 1, 2009 by bkeeler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Awards for class are just participation awards, imo. All my class awards are in a box in the basement. I only feel I have "bragging rights" for awards where I was at or near the top. Those awards really mean something to me. And yea, I have very few of those awards... (actually, since moving, all my awards are in a box in the basement...) -rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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