2009 Fort Benning 3 Gun Challenge

[ronswin]

Hi All: I am new to this forum, so this may not be the correct place to post this inquiry. Here goes:

I am on the waiting list for this year's FB3G match. According to the posted rules, a participant must shoot a .223 / 5.56 caliber or higher. The question is:

May I shoot the match (without a DQ) on an AR platform chambered in 5.45 x 39. My understanding is that the 2 rounds are almost balistically identical. Can someone shed some light on this matter?

All help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

C

My shooting partner has used his AK-74 clone rifle in cal. 5.45x39 at Ft. Benning for the past two years. I wouldn't think this would be an issue.

RonSwin

[Charles Bond]

Hi All: I am new to this forum, so this may not be the correct place to post this inquiry. Here goes:

I am on the waiting list for this year's FB3G match. According to the posted rules, a participant must shoot a .223 / 5.56 caliber or higher. The question is:

May I shoot the match (without a DQ) on an AR platform chambered in 5.45 x 39. My understanding is that the 2 rounds are almost balistically identical. Can someone shed some light on this matter?

All help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

C

My shooting partner has used his AK-74 clone rifle in cal. 5.45x39 at Ft. Benning for the past two years. I wouldn't think this would be an issue.

RonSwin

Good luck with 400 yard targets with this and just because the bullet finally arrives, that load may not make it flash.

[Jack T]

Charles the gentleman is refering to a 5.45 X 39 cartridge not a 7.62 X 39. The ballastics on the 5.45 X 39 are more than acceptable.

Hope all of you have fun.

Regards,

Jack T.

[maineshootah]

16 or 17 hours?????

It takes JJ and I 24 hours to drive down there! Usually, we drive straight back so we can get back to work! (We're recovering a little slower every year though!)

You Easterners!!!!!

Hey now.. here on the east coast we all don't live in the land of "shoot in the sun all year round" unlike my southern brothers...

23 hours 24 min (1,446 miles) for me to get to Benning this year... and worth every minute on the road to get there.

Edited July 15, 2009 by maineshootah

[Jesse Tischauser]

Hi All: I am new to this forum, so this may not be the correct place to post this inquiry. Here goes:

I am on the waiting list for this year's FB3G match. According to the posted rules, a participant must shoot a .223 / 5.56 caliber or higher. The question is:

May I shoot the match (without a DQ) on an AR platform chambered in 5.45 x 39. My understanding is that the 2 rounds are almost balistically identical. Can someone shed some light on this matter?

All help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

C

A

My shooting partner has used his AK-74 clone rifle in cal. 5.45x39 at Ft. Benning for the past two years. I wouldn't think this would be an issue.

RonSwin

I was asking the same questions a few months ago and the problem I found was that all the 5.45x39 bulk ammo has steel inside the bullet(not the casing itself). So I could not find a suitable round for shooting steel targets. I contacted Wolf as well and they said their bullets contained steel as well. Check the ammo with a magnet. If it sticks you can't use it on steel targets I am told.

USPSA rules do not have a minimum caliber but this match does use the 223 limit.

Please let me know what ammo your friend is shooting if possible.

[Charles Bond]

Charles the gentleman is refering to a 5.45 X 39 cartridge not a 7.62 X 39. The ballastics on the 5.45 X 39 are more than acceptable.

Hope all of you have fun.

Regards,

Jack T.

Our local experience is that this is a fine 200 yard gun. I have not tested to 400 yards but with a 40 grain bullet but I would not want to bet my match results on the long range flashers with this round.

[ronswin]

Hi All: I am new to this forum, so this may not be the correct place to post this inquiry. Here goes:

I am on the waiting list for this year's FB3G match. According to the posted rules, a participant must shoot a .223 / 5.56 caliber or higher. The question is:

May I shoot the match (without a DQ) on an AR platform chambered in 5.45 x 39. My understanding is that the 2 rounds are almost balistically identical. Can someone shed some light on this matter?

All help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

C

A

My shooting partner has used his AK-74 clone rifle in cal. 5.45x39 at Ft. Benning for the past two years. I wouldn't think this would be an issue.

RonSwin

I was asking the same questions a few months ago and the problem I found was that all the 5.45x39 bulk ammo has steel inside the bullet(not the casing itself). So I could not find a suitable round for shooting steel targets. I contacted Wolf as well and they said their bullets contained steel as well. Check the ammo with a magnet. If it sticks you can't use it on steel targets I am told.

USPSA rules do not have a minimum caliber but this match does use the 223 limit.

Please let me know what ammo your friend is shooting if possible.

There is steel-core 5.45 which has a small mild steel insert in the center of the bullet and a steel case. This is not technically an armor-piercing load nor a penetrator. Wolf black box commercial 5.45 has a bi-metal jacket that is copper plating over very thin mild steel jacket with a soft lead core and steel case. Both will attract a magnet, however commercial Wolf 5.45 ammo will not damage steel targets and is non-corrosive. The Russian 5.45 round is a ballistic twin to the Remington .222 and with a decent rifle hit targets reliably at 300+ yards. Depending on manufacturer, you can get anything from 45 grain to 70 grain bullets and there is a very audible slap (even with hearing protection)as 5.45 hit steel at long range probably due to the large air space in the bullet tips.

Edited July 15, 2009 by ronswin

[Charles Bond]

As to the compostiion of the 5.45 projectile, I have no clue. Whether it is going to be allowed at the FB3G is going to be up to the AMU. The general practice is that if it attracts a magnet, it is not going to be allowed in a match. AMU may or may not relax that but my advice would be to talk to Sgt Hampton beforehand.

[BigHamp]

Hello all, to MY knowledge no one has used a 5.45 projectile at the FB3G. Neither I nor the staff will be actively looking for it either. If your projectile is attracted to a magnet, you can not use it, if you are caught game over. The OP on this topic quoted the RULE as minimum caliber .223/ 5.56, this is interesting as it states MINIMUM meaning must be equal to or larger than 5.56. To my knowledge (and I went to LA public schools so I could be wrong) 5.45 issss smaller than 5.56, question answered.

Let’s move on to more interesting topics. If you could pick one cool item or prop (NO VEHICLES OF ANY KIND) what would it be?

This year’s theme is going to be pretty BA!

This years T-shirt will be the best ESPECIALLY if you've been to any Tactical 3-Gun this year, you will want to per-order a few!

Rooms are almost gone, make your reservations soon, or you'll have to find another hotel. Keep in mind most hotels in this area fill up about 3 months out for the weekends, this is when the trainees get there graduation date so make those reservations early.

Any other questions, post them here, I want to get the post count up!

BigHamp

[M ammo]

""""""""""""""This year’s theme is going to be pretty BA!""""""""

Hey I'm getting OLD and after 20 Years in the Army,,,,, and now working,,, In the tech field training the army.

MY Acronymic Deficit Disorder is WAY Maxxxxxed out,,,

What is pretty BA!? Bad A$$???????

I'll do push-ups now...

Jim M ammo

Edited July 15, 2009 by M ammo

[M ammo]

As for a PROP.....

A tire house...

blind stage room clearing,,,

Jim M ammo

[Scout454]

Hamp -

How about the new M-320?

[mpeltier]

Cool prop: How about a mortar with training rounds and the small scale buildings that would fall apart when hit. Would be cool to start the trench stage with that and the buildings set up on the other side of the trenches. If I remember correctly they went bang about like a really big firecracker. This would have a very high spectator appeal.

[HS101]

How about a M107 and several long distance targets?

[uscbigdawg]

SFC Hampton,

Any chance of using the sniper town/upstairs hide position like y'all did in 2007 (I think)? Not in love with using the M24, but being able to engage multiple targets in a "city" environment would be fun.

After that, grenades are always good. 240B or a 249 wouldn't be bad (vehicle mounted of course). I'm pretty sure that you can borrow a pintle mount from your UH-60 guys, make a mock, UH-60 window and cabin door. Engage with 240B and then exit the helicopter through the cabin door with your rifle loaded and pistol holstered & cold. Engage multiple targets with rifle and pistol. Some simulated artillery and/or smoke would be good.

Rich

[Charles Bond]

Hamp:

A ma duce would be rather cool mounted on a vehicle even if we only got to squeeze off 3 rds. Then pick up our rifle and engage distant targets from the same position. I recall there is already a tank down range on the long distance rifle range that will take the 50 cal rds. If we wanted something closer we could shoot at a new GM vehicle since they can not seem to sell them.

I also agree that returning to the sniper town/tower would be a blast. If you do not want to work it into the main match, it would make a swell side match.

Having an artillery simulator execute in the middle of a stage might add somthing realistic to the course of fire.

Lastly, we did the parachute thing a couple of years ago. We could start at the top of a rope slide and pick up our weapon at the end and engage targets. Would require some construction but would be a piece of cake compared to ponds or trenches.

Just as important as all of this is the food. I sure hope your dad will be back cooking this year.

Charles Bond

[Sandro]

Hello all, to MY knowledge no one has used a 5.45 projectile at the FB3G. Neither I nor the staff will be actively looking for it either. If your projectile is attracted to a magnet, you can not use it, if you are caught game over. The OP on this topic quoted the RULE as minimum caliber .223/ 5.56, this is interesting as it states MINIMUM meaning must be equal to or larger than 5.56. To my knowledge (and I went to LA public schools so I could be wrong) 5.45 issss smaller than 5.56, question answered.

Let’s move on to more interesting topics. If you could pick one cool item or prop (NO VEHICLES OF ANY KIND) what would it be?

This year’s theme is going to be pretty BA!

This years T-shirt will be the best ESPECIALLY if you've been to any Tactical 3-Gun this year, you will want to per-order a few!

Rooms are almost gone, make your reservations soon, or you'll have to find another hotel. Keep in mind most hotels in this area fill up about 3 months out for the weekends, this is when the trainees get there graduation date so make those reservations early.

Any other questions, post them here, I want to get the post count up!

BigHamp

50cal from a M1 tank or a mini gun from a Blackhawk? That would be my dream prop.

Interesting shooting challenge would be to shoot the long shoots from a High Tower, so shooter needs to compensate for bullet drop and shooting angle.

[Chuck Anderson]

I'd love to shoot an M-2 or M134. I'd definitely be willing to kick an extra 20 or so to the match to pay for the ammo. Other than that maybe shooting a precision sniper rifle with, oh I don't know say a TacMod stock on it, in the MOUT area?

BTW, the match theme is BA? Does that mean the RO's will all be dressed as sheep? Or the MD has to dress up like Little Bo Peep?

[Kagemusha]

Shooting while wearing a gas mask. (good ole days!)

[HRider]

Ma deuce, M134, 240, 249, mortars, 155mm, set off claymores, whatever is availible. I know it will be fun.

How about crawling through a tunnel with a flashlight and pistol?

I can't wait.

Hurley

[BigHamp]

BA is a PC term for BAD ASS!

Good suggestions keep them comming!

I do wonder why NO ONE has mentioned the bridge

BigHamp

[Benelli Chick]

Well, now that you bring it up...grenades, .50's whatever, AT the bridge! Now that could be fun!!!!!

[recon215]

Didn't they FINALLY burn that darned bridge after last year?

BA is a PC term for BAD ASS!

Good suggestions keep them comming!

I do wonder why NO ONE has mentioned the bridge

BigHamp

[Mike P]

I liked the bridge. How about a V-tac Barricade shot FROM the bridge? Now theres you a prop to put the B in BA. All the ports of course.

Mike

[BigHamp]

I liked the bridge. How about a V-tac Barricade shot FROM the bridge? Now theres you a prop to put the B in BA. All the ports of course.

Mike

Ok.

I don't think this one will work out the way you see it in your head but hey, at least it is not my idea!

Lets get some more!

BugHamp