scirocco38s Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Darwin's Theory of Natural Selection at work..."This 'weeding out' of less suited organisms and the reward of survival to those better suited led Darwin to deduce that organisms had evolved over time, where the most desirable characteristics of a species are favoured and those organisms who exhibit them survive to pass their genes on." Darwin event. We dont need this one adding to the gene pool. Let nature run its course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJDOUBLETAP Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 At least the hammer isn't cocked. He should have it pointing away from him, and should definitly have the mag out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 I see the point but on not sweeping yourself, but that hammer is down - that gun is essentially inert. I've been thinking about this, and I don't the know the right answer. What if you dropped a loaded 1911 with the hammer down. Could a round go off if the hammer were hit hard enough during a fall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 If you cant follow the safety rules under perfect, controlled conditions... how are you going to follow them the rest of the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenTX Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Well, it is his hand/arm and his picture right? Seriously, I'd probably just ask why he didn't simply point it to the right rather than at his arm? Seems easy enough. R, Maybe he does not want the serial number to show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Law Man Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 The message was ok, maybe you have an issue with your delivery.. Jumping his ass is probably a little strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 To steal a quote from an expert ... Stand back, Earth Beings, for the correct mechanical info and rumor debunking:The 1911 pistol is not like the SAA revolver. The 1911 firing pin is shorter than the tunnel in which it rides. It is held back by the firing pin return spring. At rest, the hammer is flush with the retaining plate, so there is no way for the hammer to jolt the firing pin forward. Bash the snot out of it with a ball peen hammer, you aren't going to use the pistols hammer to launch the firing pin forward with the hammer down. Half-cock, you bet. The grip safety has nothing to do with any of this, it just stops the trigger from moving. The firing pin spring holds the firing pin back. Supposedly, if you drop a 1911, inertia will fire it. I'd love to see Colt's tests, as mine prove otherwise. Ned Christiansen and I essentially destroyed a test 1911, dropping it on its muzzle from a height of eight feet onto a concrete floor repeatedly, without a single instance of the primed, chambered case discharging. All old hands know that a 1911 in Condition 2 (there, I said it) is safe. What isn't safe is getting the damn thing cocked. Back in the day, we never did stage starts from Condition 2. We always did it from 3, and the stage description had a paragraph explaining why you were in the predicament you were in. Glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 I'm getting the point so I'm going to send the guy a PM and apologize for being to rough with him. He did take things well. He admitted it was dangerous with a polite tone and moved on. It was the response from the other members that through me for a loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaky Dave Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Maybe he"s pointing it at something he wants to destroy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Well Thats not the way I would hold it. I bet the guy is more than a little embarrased. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Funny, there's a very similar picture in the current Front Sight (page 28) and no one's seen fit to blast Roy Neal, or Front Sight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 Funny, there's a very similar picture in the current Front Sight (page 28) and no one's seen fit to blast Roy Neal, or Front Sight Don't worry. I'll get to him later. Here is a copy of the letter of apology I sent: Zmin, I try to be very conscientious so I started a thread on another forum to get an opinion on how I handled things regarding your picture. After almost 400 views and 32 responses, I've come to the conclusion that I was too harsh with how I handled things. I would like to extend a sincere apology to you, and I hope you will accept that. I try to be fair. Nothing I said or did was personal. I've seen a few accidents in my past. I used to take care of GSW's when I was a surgery resident in crack-cocaine heaven (Saginaw, MI). I also shoot a lot in competition and I have seen a lot of goofy stuff happen. I saw my buddy blow open his hand when he unloaded his gun because he had his hand over the ejection port to catch the round. I saw an accidental discharge in the safe area. I've seen over 12 AD's on the range (both indoors and outdoors)--usually when someone was reloading their gun with the finger on the trigger. And I've seen one round get discharged in a holster. That round landed between the competitors foot and the Safety Officers foot. Needless to say, I get worked up over handgun safety. I certainly didn't mean to come across as a D-head or get too personal. I believe you handled yourself like a true gentleman. In all actuality, I was more disturbed by the other members reactions--perhaps they were just being defensive? Anyway, I'm rambling on.....I do apologize. And thank you very much for you contribution to the forum. We are all friends here fighting the good fight. Chris Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 And his response: Chris, Thanks for the apology - but it is completely unnecessary. When I first read the post I thought you were a bit harsh as well. But after reviewing the picture - and being honest with myself- I could not disagree with you. Nobody likes being corrected in front of others - but I told myself when I went through the Safety Off. cert. class for IDPA - if I'm corrected - and it was warranted I'm going to make a point of accepting it and letting everyone know it was MY error. My feeling is - it's a disservice to those around me if I don't handle it that way. In this case - I don't care if it was loaded with snap-caps - I don't care if it was a single-action hammer down. That gun is always loaded - and unless unassembled the muzzle is to be safe. Period - end of story. I hate seeing stories of guys (often experienced sportsmen) causing injury because they grew TOO comfortable handling their guns and let the basic firearms rules slip. Not only can the resulting injury be a huge loss - but everytime it happens - it's another chink in the armor of the 2nd Amendment. Was this gun safe? "I swear it was!" But that's the same statement we've all heard from other tragic cases. I've had one AD in my life so far. Coincidentally - sitting in this same living room some years back - dry-firing. Before I was bright enough to buy snap-caps - I started cycling shells because the action seemed sluggish. Didn't pay attention to my trigger finger and ........ it was a good 30 minutes before my ears quit ringing and my hands quit shaking. Did you know that when a .45 round nose goes through shag carpet you can't see the hole afterwards? But it will plow a perfect groove through a sub-floor and explode an 8" chunk of wood off the back side of a 2x10 floor joyce! It's impressive! Needless to say - live ammo is no longer even on the same floor with me during dry-fire now. One rule violated - thankfully no permanent harm done. Violate any 2 of those rules at the same time though and it's a recipe for disaster. So thanks for the apology - but no thanks! Your correction was accurate. I'm just as susceptible to overconfidence as anyone else. Some guys might prefer a private critique in a case like this - but if your method helps one other person to keep that overconfidence in check - it's worth it to me. Thanks! Feel free to post this reply on those forums that thought you were too harsh. Maybe they'll be a little more cautious knowing you're watching! Rich Pretty solid guy if you ask me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Post Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Wow, two gentlemen, both "Big" men! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino_aki Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 And his response:Chris, Thanks for the apology - but it is completely unnecessary. When I first read the post I thought you were a bit harsh as well. But after reviewing the picture - and being honest with myself- I could not disagree with you. Nobody likes being corrected in front of others - but I told myself when I went through the Safety Off. cert. class for IDPA - if I'm corrected - and it was warranted I'm going to make a point of accepting it and letting everyone know it was MY error. My feeling is - it's a disservice to those around me if I don't handle it that way. In this case - I don't care if it was loaded with snap-caps - I don't care if it was a single-action hammer down. That gun is always loaded - and unless unassembled the muzzle is to be safe. Period - end of story. I hate seeing stories of guys (often experienced sportsmen) causing injury because they grew TOO comfortable handling their guns and let the basic firearms rules slip. Not only can the resulting injury be a huge loss - but everytime it happens - it's another chink in the armor of the 2nd Amendment. Was this gun safe? "I swear it was!" But that's the same statement we've all heard from other tragic cases. I've had one AD in my life so far. Coincidentally - sitting in this same living room some years back - dry-firing. Before I was bright enough to buy snap-caps - I started cycling shells because the action seemed sluggish. Didn't pay attention to my trigger finger and ........ it was a good 30 minutes before my ears quit ringing and my hands quit shaking. Did you know that when a .45 round nose goes through shag carpet you can't see the hole afterwards? But it will plow a perfect groove through a sub-floor and explode an 8" chunk of wood off the back side of a 2x10 floor joyce! It's impressive! Needless to say - live ammo is no longer even on the same floor with me during dry-fire now. One rule violated - thankfully no permanent harm done. Violate any 2 of those rules at the same time though and it's a recipe for disaster. So thanks for the apology - but no thanks! Your correction was accurate. I'm just as susceptible to overconfidence as anyone else. Some guys might prefer a private critique in a case like this - but if your method helps one other person to keep that overconfidence in check - it's worth it to me. Thanks! Feel free to post this reply on those forums that thought you were too harsh. Maybe they'll be a little more cautious knowing you're watching! Rich Pretty solid guy if you ask me!! Agreed...maybe you oughta send him an invite to these forums...he sounds like he could benefit and benefit us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speculatorking Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Only thing left is to have a beer together and hug it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmcphersn Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Only thing left is to have a beer together and hug it out. If you're hugging it out with another guy, wouldn't white wine be a better choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Wow, two gentlemen, both "Big" men! That's just what I was thinking. Good on both of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 Only thing left is to have a beer together and hug it out. If you're hugging it out with another guy, wouldn't white wine be a better choice? Perhaps by the fireplace with some nice soft music going in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdstihl Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 CSE, thanks for posting the picture and the story, along with your and his PM's. I myself get too complacent once in a while, and admit when I was looking at the pic I thought "big deal, he knows it's unloaded". The fact is, if we all follow the 4 gun safety rules, every single time, there are no accidents. This will help me pay even better attention to detail in the future. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterready Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Only thing left is to have a beer together and hug it out. If you're hugging it out with another guy, wouldn't white wine be a better choice? Perhaps by the fireplace with some nice soft music going in the background. Easy Doc! I thought I was your Huckleberry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterready Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 You did right! There is no room for error with firearms. At the end of the day, isn't it just as easy to point the gun in a safe direction. Your're still pointing it, aren't you??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSEMARTIN Posted April 9, 2009 Author Share Posted April 9, 2009 Only thing left is to have a beer together and hug it out. If you're hugging it out with another guy, wouldn't white wine be a better choice? Perhaps by the fireplace with some nice soft music going in the background. Easy Doc! I thought I was your Huckleberry? Not yet. First, you get to watch and see how I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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