exoninja Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 What are your tactics on engaging targets while moving at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 - lots of bend in the knees - step smoothly - move about half as fast as I want to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Shoot from the waist up and move from the waist down. Sounds kind of silly, but that's the real key. You probably want to avoid crossing your legs too . . . some people seem to want to do it (perhaps because they saw it in a movie?), but it's slow and setting yourself up for a fall. You can practice in a semi-dark room with a flashlight. If you're moving smoothly enough, the light from the beam will track smoothly across the wall. Outside you can do the trick Mr. Burkett shows in his videos with a half full water bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie McG Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 Flex and Rhino have it down, just go out and practice. in the video Matt was using a plastic bottle of water turned upside down and as you (duck walk) watch the water. heel to toe as you move dont step hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 14, 2003 Share Posted September 14, 2003 In addition to the above, I shoot when I am picking my foot up as opposed to torching one off as my foot hits the ground. I also "roll" my foot from heel to toe. It's kind of hard to explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 take a glass of water full to about 3/8" of the top. learn to move w/out spilling any & you will be able to move & keep your sights steady also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted September 17, 2003 Share Posted September 17, 2003 I try to keep the shots short, and simple. Pay special attention to where you will see things, and more attention to when they disappear. If I am moving left to right, the right most target will probably appear first. Generally, I'd start on that one and shoot right to left. If the target are spaced far apart, or I will run close by them, start with the nearest one. If you are running downrange, past some targets, shoot as you approach, before you get to each one. It is easier to get A's, and you won't break the 180. Tactics, not tecnique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 Do you (the masters and A's out there) shoot a cadence as you walk? That is, do the shots tend to go off at the same time during each step/foot fall/lift/whatever? If so, how many shots can you take per step? Would you take more, smaller steps to cover the distance, in order to engage all the targets, or do you take the targets as they are acquired from the waist up, regardless of what is happening from the waist down? Me, I can't even acquire and hold the sight picture unless I shoot to a cadence, and it seems mighty slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 Cadence bad. Vision good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 I am right handed, but if I am moving forward, I start with my left foot and if moving backward, start with the right foot. Take smaller steps than you do when normally walking, in both directions. Walk softly, and roll your foot to meet the ground. You need to have cadence to your walk, that is to say you need to walk at the same rate or speed, but your shooting has nothing to do with your moving. Break the shot when you have the correct sight picture and alignment. Yes, you can break mulitple shots per foot fall if the targets are closer than 12 or 15 yds, and you keep your head and upper body still while moving. Side to side is different entirely. Technique depends on how many targets, the spacing between them, distance to the targets, and the direction of motion. Never cross your feet while moving. If the targets are 5 yds or under, it can be much faster to shoot unsupported with the hand nearest the targets. If you don't feel comfortable shooting unsupported it might be better to side step than to take a chance on breaking the 180, but it is much slower. If you are limber enough to use a normal walking stance, going side to side, it is seems better to engage the targets B4 they are perpendicular to your line of motion. My thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 This one's near and dear to me. I have practiced this almost exclusively for 2 months and it had made a MAJOR difference in my field course times. 1. You (almost) CANNOT be too low in your stance. If you feel new muscles when you shoot on the move, you're doing it right. Watch the shooting footage on Burkett's v. 4...Travis T is my role model here. Matt Trout also has it down right. 2. You'll be shooting more of a zone shot than a precise shot. You'll be calling the shot inside an acceptable wobble that will be enlarged somewhat because of the extra gun movement. 3. You will be able to shoot almost anything on the move when you get it down. It's a confidence thing...At my last "on the move" session I was able to shoot 6 As on a full target moving forward from approx. 30-25 yards. 4. I have not tried to develop any strategy for shooting on certain steps or at any part of the stride. I just watch the dot on the target. This may be more critical for irons, I have not done serious training on the move with regular sights. Hope this helps, SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 Somewhere I downloaded a video clip of Saul Kirsh (sp?) shooting Stage 5 at the Florida Open match. If you can find that clip you can see exactly what everone is telling you here. Move from the waist down, get low in your stance, etc. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 I knew there were some good threads on this topic... Did a search and came up with THIS LINK. ONE MORE And within the first thread above, there are two more excellent linked discussions (Started by Pat Harrison and linked by Flex) that were lost during the conversion... be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 Steve, you are a great resource! Thank You. Shooting on the move is my biggest weakness. I've got to have input like folks here on the forum provide or I'll never learn. I can't remember the last time I shot a USPSA style club match and I almost always have to practice alone. (One of the few bad things about living in the boonies.) I need to get as comfortable with movement as I am with the draw stroke. One step at a time, I guess. Thanks again for the insights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 You might try the practice drills on paved ground at first to get the basics. It's a lot easier on a floor or pavement than it is on gravel or grass or uneven ground, at least for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 Couple more thoughts... Don't neglect horizontal movement drills. It's little choppier, and I do cross my feet going sideways. I tend to cover less ground. Another thing to be aware of: After you airgun the walk thru, it's a good bet you won't be where you think you'll be at a certain time when you actually shoot the stage, causing your visual cues to be "lost" temporarily. I asked Matt Trout about this and he suggested picking a spot on the ground as a reference if you can't see the target you're coming up on. Also, budget some extra rounds when shooting steel on the move. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 Also, budget some extra rounds when shooting steel on the move. I agree. In other words...expect some mikes. On paper too. Shooting on the move is one of those risk/reward things. If you can master the skill set...the pay-off is huge. (I don't think Eric G. ever stops moving.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 Amplifiying what Steve said, much of the time the payoff from shooting on the move comes from ending up where you need to be, with some targets already shot. If you don't end up in the right place, you can easily lose as much time as you gained getting there. Practice your movement with a goal and end-position as part of your plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 . . . and in addition to the obvious competition benefits, it's also a very useful defensive skill to possess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 Very useful posts - thank you all! Tightloop - why shouldn't you cross your feet moving laterally? Seems faster to do so. Tactical folks cite the risk of tripping over your own feet, and of having less ability to pivot/turn, but where speed counts in our sport, and with stages being predetermined, predictable and even rehearsable scenarios, are these factors for us? Or am I missing something here? Say, Rhino, not to thread drift too much, but I thought the tactical people frowned on shooting in the open. "Shoot from cover", etc, etc, etc. The closest I've heard of was flinging a couple shots at your opponents while at a flat out run, mainly to pin them down as you move to cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 Kevin All these guys have it nailed. Just make certain you pay attention to what you are seeing. And practice it a lot because in a match you need to be able to quickly and affectively evaluate what you are seeing. In other words - you want to shoot on the move on a stage. As you are doing it - you throw a miss. Having the ability to see that miss is critical right now - because if you call it and make it up - you are probably STILL better off than standing there and at the maximum the same as simply standing there. If you don't make up the shot though then you have thrown match points away. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 20, 2003 Share Posted September 20, 2003 Say, Rhino, not to thread drift too much, but I thought the tactical people frowned on shooting in the open. "Shoot from cover", etc, etc, etc. The closest I've heard of was flinging a couple shots at your opponents while at a flat out run, mainly to pin them down as you move to cover. I'm thinking it's good for when you don't have any cover to move to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 I have run a multitide of tests/drills with targets at points a and b and have not found an array where it is faster to shoot static and run vs. shoot while moving. It's always faster. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 I don't cross my feet due to the uncertainty of lumbs, bumbs, and holes in the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted September 22, 2003 Share Posted September 22, 2003 Fair 'nough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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