Leozinho Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) Hi All, I'm heading to FLETC's CITP in a few months, and, naturally, would like to max the handgun qualification course of fire. I don't know the exact course of fire. However, other law enforcement qual courses that I've seen seem to be fairly generous with the par times, at least for someone with some experience in USPSA. I'm thinking I need to work on weak hand (don't most of us?) and accuracy from the 25m line (something I've neglected) in order to not drop any points. (I'm not sure if we will shoot from that far away.) I'm a lapsed USPSA (just barely) B class production shooter. Handgun there will be DA/SA. I shoot a Beretta now, so I'm not worried about learning to deal with a DA pull. (BTW, I will shoot the way I'm taught there. So no worries there. I plan to be the gray man, except when the scores are posted:) ) Any thoughts? (Edited to remove subtitle asking about COF) Edited February 26, 2009 by Leozinho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwoods Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 What is FLETC's CITP? I know what IALEFI and CLEFIA are but what is FLETC's CITP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 CITP is the criminal investigator training program. Most, but not all, federal agencies who have series 1811 (criminal investigators) go this route. I have no idea what the course of fire is, but know who to ask. I'll send him a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkapot Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I work at FLETC Artesia; I posted a few/several months ago about a few FAM trainees who came through. As B/C class shooters they Completely Totally Absolutely Dominated their classmates in all of the firearms training. As a "B" shooter you'll be better than most (99%) of the Instructors there. Your plan to be the gray man is perfect....just do your thing, nod and smile politely when people tell you the "right" way to shoot. An Instructor sending you the course of fire ahead of time would blatantly violate FLETCs honor code; also true for a former CITP trainee to send it to you. A large organization down here has cheating scandals from time to time...........for former trainees/recent graduates sharing "test" information who trainees who haven't taken the test yet. You'll do fine. Par times for LE courses of fire are, as you've noticed, v-e-r-y generous. Just have fun....and be ready to be the High Shooter. FY42385 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Go shoot a few matches, get back in the groove. Then go kick butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Any thoughts? I would suspect your gunhandling will be more than fast enough. The only thing that could really give you trouble is accuracy. That is where I would spend my time. If it is practical, you may want to swap back to a factory hammer spring in your Beretta and practice with it(assuming you changed it). I doubt their guns will be slicked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Back just after 9/11, remember when everyone was making a big deal about the air marshal qualification course? "The toughest qualification course in federal law enforcement," and so forth. Shortly thereafter, at a match, they actually ran the air marshal qual as one of the stages. Of the 40-plus match attendees, the only person who passed the test, no dropped shots, all hits within the specified time limits, first time through, was the B class (at the time) USPSA shooter. Somehow, I don't think you're going to have trouble excelling at this class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leozinho Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 An Instructor sending you the course of fire ahead of time would blatantly violate FLETCs honor code; also true for a former CITP trainee to send it to you. A large organization down here has cheating scandals from time to time...........for former trainees/recent graduates sharing "test" information who trainees who haven't taken the test yet. In light of this, please let me drop my request for the COF. I don't want the appearance of cheating. Some law enforcement agencies publish their course of fire, so I didn't imagine that it would be a problem. Just looking at other qual courses gives me a decent idea of what to expect, anyway. Good point, Ben. I have slicked up my Beretta a bit with a new hammer spring and DIY trigger job. I'll go back to the factory spring. Thanks for the replies so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Leo - Don't even worry about it. Just shoot your M9 at 25 yards and that'll be the worst that you'll ever do. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 When in doubt, think about the feeling of the trigger. Concentrate on how it actually feels against the pad of your finger, this is what I do for top accuracy. The human brain watches the sights, and I occupy the monkey brain with the feeling of the trigger, and nothing bad happens during the pull. Time won't be a factor, so you just have to look the shots off. H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Buddy if you truly compete in USPSA and IPSC shooting regularly and are a "B" class shooter you have NOTHING to worry about in a standard LEO type course of fire. Chances are you'll be WELL within the time constraints. There will very probably be a 25 yard line "stage" in there somewhere. Years ago a LOT of departments had 50 yard line shooting as well. Our Qual has 9 rounds of 25 yard . Standing on hind two legs 2 hand 6 from strong side of "barricade/cover" (A 2X8) and 3 rounds from "weak" side. Not patting myself on the back but I'm usually done with all 9 rounds, cleared and holstered before the next guy has fired all his rounds from the weak side. You as a "B" class shooter? You'll have time to read a book, go to the dentist, groom the puppy, all before the next guy is done. Trust me. JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 You'll be bored with the shooting. It will be too easy for you as a B class USPSA shooter. I've been qualifying for the AFOSI for 10 years now and get too bored with it, stop caring, and throw a few rounds now and then. Stick with the basics, strong hand, and weak hand and you will excel, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I don't know the FLETC course of fire, but my dept has the "CLEET" course of fire. It is fired on a target with a picture of some dude pointing a gun at you (from the hip) There is a circle about 4 or 5" on the face, and a small oval inside a larger oval on the torso (the small oval is smaller than the A zone, but the big oval is about as big as the C zone). A hit inside the ovals or the circles counts as a hit. Anything outside is a miss. The course of fire used to be: 1 Yard: Draw and fire 3 shots from strong-hand retention position in 3 seconds, 3 Yards: Draw and fire 2 to body, 1 to head in 3 seconds, 5 Yards: Draw and fire 2 to body in 3 seconds, 7 Yards: " 15 Yards: Draw and fire 2 to body in 4 seconds, 25 Yards: String 1: Draw to kneeling, strong-side barricade supported (!), and fire 2 shots in 5 seconds, String 2: From low ready, fire 2 shots, standing strong side barricade in 5 s, String 3: " weak side " 50 Yards: Draw to kneeling strong side barricade supported, and 2 shots in 8 (I think) seconds. The new course eliminated the 50 yard line, starts at 25 and works in. The 25 is the same. At 15 you have to fire 1 shot standing, and 1 kneeling (stupid), from 7 in there's SHO, WHO, and a headshot at 5. The time at 1 yard was reduced to 2.5 seconds. The new course is even easier than the old one was. You need 70% to pass (lol!), and there are quite a few who don't! Anyway, if you can hit a C zone from 25 with a slow, deliberate shot, you're good enough to get a perfect score on the CLEET course. Have fun at FLETC! DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 DD, I don't see anything listed beside "7 yards:" on your list, other than a quotation mark. (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Duane, Yeah...the 7 yard string is the same as the 5 yard string. hence """ DD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Ah. Now the clouds part.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 As previously stated, I don't think you will have any problems. Every LE qualification I have ever shot had very generous time constraints compared to what you will find at a match. A confidence building exercise would be to practice shooting 3"x5" note cards turned vertically. This closely approximates the X / 10 ring on a B27 target. I think the FLETC uses the "bowling pin" targets, but it doesn't matter. Focus on fundamentals. Practice calling your shots. The point is to increase the distance you can keep 6 rounds on the card. It shouldn't take long before you can stack all of them in beyond 25M. When that gets easy, try strong hand and weak hand in the same manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Leo, don't sweat anything about the CITP program other than being the gray man. The FA portion will be a breeze, other than listening to a a few ass clowns who double as intructors at FLETC. Use the FA sessions as a means of increasing your accuracy-hitting small groups on different parts of the target, improving your draw-you WILL draw alot and have fun. If you don't max out the FA portion and get high class shooter, you need to turn in your B card. Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphyslaw Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 (edited) Did you ever go through this investigator training thing? I was wondering if there was any classroom instruction on investigative procedures or was it just shooting? Edited April 28, 2009 by murphyslaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcarter Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I was kinda wondering at first what you were talking about like some kind of special LEO match or something. If you are just going to qualify you will probably be yawning toward the end. Our department started adding stuff to our quals that really meant something on the street like moving and shooting and shooting at moving targets. Even with that it is still pretty boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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