colbyjack Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 will clays 4.3 grains be ok for the 200 grain and the 230gr lead bullets? i mean i use it in my 200 gr loads but 835 fps average 167 power factor. could i use 4.3 for the lead 230 gr RN also? or will the play the dillon 650 has sometimes dropping a 1/10 gr off be way to much if that hit 4.4 grains? i just got some 230 gr RN bullets and trying to figure out what it takes to make major using clays. any help or tips let me know thanks. -chris whats your pet load for 185, 200, 230 gr using clays? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Clays 4.0-4.2 MAX- 230gr LRN or FMJ and Federal Match for my 625 5" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtwilliams Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 4.0 of Clays 230gr Rainer RN Federal primers Easily makes major in my 625 5" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Every gun's a little different. I use 4.2 grains of Clays with 230s. My 625 doesn't need quite that much but Sam's old 25-2 won't safely make major with anything less. (By safely, I want at least 170 p.f. to accommodate variation in chronos, chrono technique, and chrono conditions.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rather-B-Huntin Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 4.0 of Clays makes a 165.012 average PF from my 1911, but only a 157.something from my 625 PC (5.5 inch barrel). I'm going to try 4.2 and see if it'll make 165 in my Revo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kframe_mike Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 My 5" seems to like the 230s the best for accuracy,with either plated or lead.The load I use the most is 4.0grs of Clays with a 230 LRN,makes like 168 PF IIRC.I've been meaning to wring out WST in it,but haven't had the time.-Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Chris, Here is something to try.......set up your press and throw powder charges until they mostly are between 4.1 and 4.2. Then load about 5 rounds and then check the powder in the case on the press that you havent put a bullet on yet. Check that. If it is 4.1 or 4.2 then load all your bullets and be happy You will make PF and you will never feel the difference between 3.9gr and 4.2 grain......trust me....... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Amish 1 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) Got a question... I've tried Clays and discontinued using it after I chrono'ed it for the first time. Using 3.9gr of Clays under 230gr LRN, I got absolutely erratic speeds. Anywhere from not making Major to 800+ fps. Another revolver shooter told me that those "spikes" are normal for Clays. I switched to 700-X and things, including accuracy, got better. Does anyone have tips on how to make Clays work? Any response will be appreciated. Edited February 12, 2009 by Team Amish 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Got a question...I've tried Clays and discontinued using it after I chrono'ed it for the first time. Using 3.9gr of Clays under 230gr LRN, I got absolutely erratic speeds. Anywhere from not making Major to 800+ fps. Another revolver shooter told me that those "spikes" are normal for Clays. I switched to 700-X and things, including accuracy, got better. Does anyone have tips on how to make Clays work? Any response will be appreciated. Team, I have just the opposite results. 700X was erradic for me, But it has to do with case volume and pressures. At 3.9 with a 230 lead I had a Standard Deviaton of 16.4 and a extreme spead of 59fps. At 3.7 SD went to 52. Using Clays in the 38 super my SD is in the single digits mostly and the Xtreme spread varies for 11 fps to 48 depending on the conditions. These loads are my ICORE Loads and I go from 2.5 to 2.8 grains for 123 to 130 PF. I like 2.7 right now. later rdd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Amish 1 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Team, I have just the opposite results. 700X was erradic for me, But it has to do with case volume and pressures. At 3.9 with a 230 lead I had a Standard Deviaton of 16.4 and a extreme spead of 59fps. At 3.7 SD went to 52. Using Clays in the 38 super my SD is in the single digits mostly and the Xtreme spread varies for 11 fps to 48 depending on the conditions. These loads are my ICORE Loads and I go from 2.5 to 2.8 grains for 123 to 130 PF. I like 2.7 right now. later rdd Thanks Bubber. I'll run a few more tests when I get a chance.. Also appreciate the ICORE recipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71Commander Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Every gun's a little different. I use 4.2 grains of Clays with 230s. My 625 doesn't need quite that much but Sam's old 25-2 won't safely make major with anything less. (By safely, I want at least 170 p.f. to accommodate variation in chronos, chrono technique, and chrono conditions.) What bullet? Jacketed, plated, molly or lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Team, I have just the opposite results. 700X was erradic for me, But it has to do with case volume and pressures. At 3.9 with a 230 lead I had a Standard Deviaton of 16.4 and a extreme spead of 59fps. At 3.7 SD went to 52. Using Clays in the 38 super my SD is in the single digits mostly and the Xtreme spread varies for 11 fps to 48 depending on the conditions. These loads are my ICORE Loads and I go from 2.5 to 2.8 grains for 123 to 130 PF. I like 2.7 right now. later rdd Thanks Bubber. I'll run a few more tests when I get a chance.. Also appreciate the ICORE recipe. Team, the bullet in my 38 super I use is a 160 Molycoat OAL is 1.285. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 My favorite powder for lead and plated revolver loads for the 45ACP is Trail Boss. Clean burning and mild perceived recoil. will clays 4.3 grains be ok for the 200 grain and the 230gr lead bullets? i mean i use it in my 200 gr loads but 835 fps average 167 power factor. could i use 4.3 for the lead 230 gr RN also? or will the play the dillon 650 has sometimes dropping a 1/10 gr off be way to much if that hit 4.4 grains?i just got some 230 gr RN bullets and trying to figure out what it takes to make major using clays. any help or tips let me know thanks. -chris whats your pet load for 185, 200, 230 gr using clays? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Amish 1 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 My favorite powder for lead and plated revolver loads for the 45ACP is Trail Boss. Clean burning and mild perceived recoil I've heard before that that's a nice load. I know someone who loads Trailboss, used to use Clays. How does that meter, considering it's the size of fruitloops (almost) and how much do you use for 230gr LRN to make Major? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 My favorite powder for lead and plated revolver loads for the 45ACP is Trail Boss. Clean burning and mild perceived recoil I've heard before that that's a nice load. I know someone who loads Trailboss, used to use Clays. How does that meter, considering it's the size of fruitloops (almost) and how much do you use for 230gr LRN to make Major? I tried it with FMJ 230's and couldn't make major with max loads. May have to try again for steel loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colbyjack Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 did 4.1 clays 1.250" OAL 230 gr RN lead and had a 818 FPS average i think thatll make major. -chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colbyjack Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 so after sighting it in with that load, of i drop to 3.9 how much do you think the point of impact will change? i want to get around the 170 PF with clays and 230 lead RN. just courious theres a match tommorow, if i load what i got im ok. but if i drop powder and cant sight it in wonder if itll be close enough.... or should i just leave it at 4.1 clays... -chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Chris, I doubt if it would make enough difference to throw you off track at the match. You may find that dropping .2 grains may put you below P.F., though. Sometimes just a tenth of a grain can make more difference in velocity that you would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray R. Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 I agree with LPatterson, you can't make major with Trail Boss. You can't get enough in a 45 acp case to do the job, while at the same time you are running past prescribed limits. Trail Boss is great for steel and ICORE loads though, as it fills the case well, lights up easily, and burns clean at very low pressure. Here's some data from my 5" 625 with a 200 grain cast swc: 3.0 grains 573 f/s 3.3 " 593 f/s 3.5 " 614 f/s With a 230 grain cast RN, 3.2 grains of Trail Boss does 545 f/s and a power factor of 125. This load is accurate and clean. Note though, that I DO NOT recommend any of these loads for a jacketed bullet! Because of their low velocity, jacketed bullets may stick in the barrel due to increased friction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revopop Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 With a 230 grain cast RN, 3.2 grains of Trail Boss does 545 f/s and a power factor of 125. This load is accurate and clean. Geez, does that load even make a noise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'd probably be willing to let him shoot at me with that load, as long as I had a catcher's mitt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 With a 230 grain cast RN, 3.2 grains of Trail Boss does 545 f/s and a power factor of 125. This load is accurate and clean. Geez, does that load even make a noise? Bunny farts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray R. Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Yep, the load does make some noise. And I don't think anybody would want to catch one, even with a catchers mitt. Seriously, I kind of stumbled on to this load when playing with Trail Boss. The powder is amazing when used within its parameters. In fact, its the first powder to come along in some time that is truely innovative. We could use some innovation across the board powder-wise.... Interestingly, this is not an "out of bounds" load for revolvers. Many black powder revolvers had such pedestrian velocities without any problems because black powder filled the case and was easy to ignite. Trail Boss is much the same, being easily the bulkiest powder on the market. Strange though, that this approach works so well with a cartridge designed for smokeless powder. I guess we are coming full circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chemepharmd Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) It would interesting to watch someone shoot 50-yard standards with that load . .45 caliber and 45 degree angle . Sorry - couldn't resist. Edited February 17, 2009 by chemepharmd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
professor Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I just put together a batch of test ammo using 3 different charges of Titegroup, with 2 different 230 gr bullets. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I'll report on the chrono results after the weekend. 45 cal Bullets: 230 grain RNL from Mastercraft Bullets 230 jacketed ball from Precision Delta Titegroup Powder ~4.1 gr ~4.2 gr ~4.6 gr CCI primers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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