Ray R.

I'm new to this game, but I think I agree with Duane on this one. I would also add that if the guy is being bitten by his gun, he would be at a competitive DISADVANTAGE, while I cannot see how wearing the glove gives him a competitive advantage. As in any sport, sometimes the call that is not made is the best call.

Hey MichiganShootist, I like that! Personally, I have always liked revolvers better then autos. But when I decided to try IDPA, I didn't have the necessary equipment to shoot a revolver, so I went with what I had. After years of trying, the infamous 1911 still feels slightly wrong in my hand-- kind of like a lead 2X4. But, as they say, you can get used to anything. I do like the sport coat thing. May try it when the weather cools. Adds a touch of class, don't you know?

Way to go, Pittbug! Maybe we should start a club... I ended up second over all in each match I shot. Both times I got beat by a 1911 in 9mm. The 1911 in 9mm does offer some very real advantages-- most notably the extra two rounds. (Recoil isn't that big of an issue.) Definately have to take care with the rounds available when shooting CDP. Need better stage planning and better shooting.

Thanks, gentlemen. I have found a goal too-- consistantly beat the ESP shooters with my 45.

Shot a couple of IDPA matches (CDP) in the last two months, and like it. I've been away from competitive shooting for a few years, and had to learn a few new things: 1] Drawing from concealment using a suitable holster is definately different from what I was used too. But after a thousand or so draws, its begining to be second nature. Not a problem. 2] The legal reloads don't always make sense, but aren't that big a deal. 3] Lots of shooting on the move which I enjoy. Only thing-- moving toward a target while engaging seems a little strange from a realistic standpoint. Met a lot of really friendly people. The COFs were interesting, and generally well thought out. Nice too, that you don't need a lot of specilized equipment-- a gun, mags, and ammo, and you're good to go. All in all, a very fine experience. I see why people get "hooked" on this.

Aah yeah! Five Stand Sporting is the wildest thing going with a shotgun. Especially level 3. Gotta "think" when you're out there too. Glad you enjoyed it. Wood to wood....

Either the 200 or 230 will work fine so long as they do not have a shoulder or driving band. You do not want anything in the way of the cartridges simply falling freely into the chambers. A smooth rounded (read: roundnose) profile from bullet nose past the beginning of the cartrige case is the way to go. Be sure to taper crimp. Here's some starting points: 230 cast roundnose; 4.3 gr. Bullseye 4.9 gr. WW 231 4.1 gr. Clays 200 cast roundnose; 4.8 gr. Bullseye 4.7 gr. Red Dot 4.2 gr. Clays Hope this helps.

josh has it correct. Earlier I said that it would take the same force to compress both springs the same distance "assuming a constant rate." But in reality the amount of force required to compress each coil changes according to the distance it must be compressed. Therefore, it takes more force to compress a 10" spring one inch then it does to compress a 20" spring one inch. But again, when the spring is in the gun it is already under load, and the longer spring starts out under a greater load then the shorter spring. So it has to take more force to compress the longer spring a given distance. As josh notes: if you cut the spring short enough, no force is required to compress the spring because it isn't being compressed. And that's the limiting case. Try it youself. Take an old recoil spring, put it in the gun sans other parts, and pull the slide back. Then shorten the spring about half the excess distance needed to close the slide, and pull the slide back again. Guess what? The shorter spring requires less force to fully retract the slide. You can do the same experiment by cutting a coil or two off the spring in the mag release. Cut it too short, and it won't hold the mag in the gun under recoil. End result is, if you cut coils from the recoil spring it takes less force to drive the slide fully rearward. And while this can indeed help ejection, it can also batter the hell out of the gun. Better to keep things in proper balance, and if you have ejection problems you may have to tune the ejector instead of the spring.

I read through this discussion twice, and I'm either missing something, or there is something wrong with the logic in all of this. Thought experiment: Take a constant rate 20# coil spring and compress it one inch. The force required to do that we'll call "P." Now cut the spring exactly in half, and compress a short half one inch. The force (assuming a constant rate as the coils compress) should still be "P." Why? Because each coil of the shorter spring has to travel twice as far to compress one inch as the coils in the longer spring. Thus each coil of the shorter spring exerts twice the resistance of each coil in the longer spring. However, since no spring has in reality a constant rate of compression as the coils compress different distances, it is quite likely that the shorter spring will require more force to compress it one inch then the longer spring would. The real problem though, is that compressing either length of spring outside an enclosed area dosen't translate to compressing the springs the same distance in an enclosed length because the longer spring will start out compressed farther in an enclosed area then the shorter spring. And that is why springs get "lighter" (exert less resistance) as they are shortened. It would seem then, that a recoil spring is "correct" if it allows function, and doesn't fully compress so that the coils reach the limit if their travel. But I could be wrong....

mpeltier, The way you describe your daughter choking, its a good thing your subconscience didn't take over! Everybody else's did, and they couldn't act. You however, were aware of everything happening at the time, and as a result were able to diagnose, act, and solve the problem. Your conscience mind did exactly what it was supposed to do-- think, but think fast. It seems the subconscience mind may be incapable of making judgements.

ironman, What caliber? (45, I assume...) Are they swaged or cast? (swaged, I assume....) Where did you get them? What gun-- auto or revolver? What diameter are they? Generally, I think you could treat them as you would any other 200 gr. bullet if using them in a 45, and attempting to make major. Same loads should work, although without testing its hard to say what the actual velocities would be.

You're probably right-- the 3.5 gr. load will won't make major. Such loads are fun to shoot, though. Did you check for leading just ahead of the forcing cone with the 4.5 grain load? If there is some build up there, it could be that the bullets are not grabbing the rifling well, and you may need a harder bullet or a different powder.

As a general rule, cast bullets smaller then .452 do not shoot well in 45acp revolvers. Ideally, the following dimentions give the best results: a] Groove diameter .4505 to .4515. b] Cylinder throat diameter .4525. (All 6 throats the same). c] Bullet diameter .4520 to .4525. d] Cast bullet hard, and with good lube. (i.e. soft and sticky). Many 45acp revolvers have cylinder throats that are too large, measuring up to .456". Those guns require a larger diameter bullet to match the throat diameter. Also, many (especially older) 45acp revolvers have very shallow lands since they were designed to shoot military hardball. Those guns absolutely demand a very hard cast bullet for accuracy. New 625's usually have the barrels right, but can have cylinder throats too tight or larger than they should be. If the throats are too tight, they can be reamed to .4525". But if too large, the only solution is a larger diameter cast bullet sized to fit the larger throats. Jacketed bullets are more forgiving of "out of speck" dimentions, and may actually shoot bullets that are undersize fairly well. But undersize cast bullets will seldom shoot well, and will almost always lead regardless of how hard they are cast.

No problem, No.343. A couple of other things I should have mentioned: In addition to the cylinder throats being too large or small, they can also be of various sizes. Its a possibility, but rare. Alignment is also a possibility. But if the cylinder is locking up properly, that would be an unusual cause of trouble because S & W usually cuts the forcing cone overly large in these revolvers, so it acts like a bushel basket and "catches" the bullets regradless of "perfect" alignment. If the gun is shooting other bullets acceptably, then I'd guess the main problem is this particular bullet you're using. I definately like hard cast bullets in revolvers (and especially in 625s). Hard cast bullets "grip" the rifling better. Many so-called experts insist that soft cast bullets don't lead like hard bullets will, but I haven't found that to be true. A hard cast bullet properly sized and lubed for the particular gun not only leads less, but gives better accuracy.

no.343, A 10 inch group is definately unacceptable. The 4 inch ain't all that good either. The gun should do better then that. However, a hotter load probably won't help. Here's what I'd check: 1) muzzle crown-- see that it isn't dinged, and is smooth. 2) cylinder throats. If they're too large (or too small) they can really affect accuracy. 3) forcing cone. Unlikely problem, but you never know.... If the above checks out OK, then I'd look to the bullets followed by the barrel itself. Although it would be damned rare for a 625 to have a bad barrel. Another thing to remember, is that 45 acp revolvers are definately NOT the accuracy champs of the revolver world. Nice guns (shoot 'em myself, and like them), but because of various things necessary to get an auto cartridge to work in them certain compremises are necessary, like looser chambers and a longer jump for the bullet from the cartridge case to the forcing cone. Still, the gun should at least do around 2.0 to 2.5 inches at 25 yards with a good load. One other thing, these guns usually require a very HARD cast bullet for best results. Hope this helps, Ray