steveyacht Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 OK, I have been talking with my local gun dealer lately while trying to trade my Para 12-45 towards a Glock 17 or 34. I nearly fell over when I heard his offer!! (or lack thereof) He went on to tell me how, at one time, he was selling a BUNCH or them, then over the past couple of years he has been struggling with them. He mentioned that Para is suffering from a bad reputation and poor reliability. I am not sure if there are any consistancies, but I would like to know more. I have owned a P12-45 and a P14-45 Limited in SS and to be honest, have never had a problem with either that wasn't traceable to operator error. I know that they aren't an STI, Baer, Wilson, any other custom 1911/2011 but..... some of us are not ready/able to afford one but want to shoot a nice 1911/2011 style gun. All feedback is appreciated, good, bad or indifferent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I dunno.... I have two of them.. a P16 and a D18-9.. the 18 is pretty much factory stock except for the extractor... The P16 has been completely re-worked.. I built it into a limited gun and everything save the Barrel, slide, frame, and grip panels have been replaced. It's been and continues to be a great Limited gun. I don't shoot it as often and it isn't as pretty as an ST/SV variant, but it gets the job done. I'd happily own another.. but then I didn't pay the same price for it as I would have for a Kimber, Baer, etc.. I feel I received what I paid for, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry cazes Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I have a P14-45 that served me well for a couple of years in L10. The only issues I had with it were all magazine related and were solved with a little polishing and tuning on my part. The gun itself has been great and I find that the larger grip fits my hand better. Only things I changed were sights, grip panels, and I added a Dawson magwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 You can check out listing for them on gunbroker.com I'm not a para fan, fwiw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Not a fan. Owned 2, sold 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I have nothing against them myself, but when I see their top shooter having problems with the gun running that raises some flags for me. I can't tell you how many times I've watched video of Todd clearing a jam. If his guns won't run.............? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 (edited) I wouldn't put to much stake in what Para's top shooter shoots or it's lack (or not) of reliabilty.... His guns (and most custom limited builds on Para frames) are so far from stock it's unfair to compare them in any way. As a platform to build a custom gun on, they are as good as the gunsmith making them. Or the parts used. And if look at how "tweaked" some of the top shooter crazy looking 6"a are it's amazing they run as well as they do! Having said that , I have not heard many good things recently on Para's out of the box reliabilty on their factory guns..... Widebody or singlestack. Edited January 26, 2009 by sfinney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I wasn't saying anything about them, just making an observation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 (edited) I'm running 50/50 on Paras right out of the box. My 10 yr old P14.45 Ltd LDA (long story)has run like a charm sice the day I took it out of the box. My P1640TJ, supposedly designed to be an out of the box limited gun, took two trips each to Para and then to Bill Fender to get it to run consistently. That said, once it was properly tuned, it ran great, but after paying a few hundred over the price of the base model P1640, I was annoyed to have to have it worked on repeatedly. My now-well-tuned P16 runs on a par with my out of the box Ed Brown. Both of them have a sweet action, are very reliable, and are more accurate than I am. But neither of them run as well as my full custom gun from Jim Angill. Full custom from a good smith is on a whole 'nother level! If someone was looking for an economical way to get into shooting Limited, I think Para's a viable option, but I'd buy a used or base model P16 and have a decent smith tune it instead of buying one of the LTD or "special" models. But you'd also have to take a good look at the STI Edge and see just how much you were really saving. Edited January 26, 2009 by bbbean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 At the risk of repeating old (and possibly faulty) info from one who has worked on (but not shot much) the Para P14 & 16: -good friend in the area was once the "team gunsmith" for a group of guys that all shot paras & got free .40 cal ammo (guess where it came from). Paras were the rage in the 1990s - being one of the 1st highcaps suitable for our sport. He showed me a box full of broken para parts. When I asked him what broke the most, he said: frames, slides, even barrels. Back then, there seemed to be somethign screwy about either the steel alloy used in the Canadian factory, or possibly the heat treating methods used. Maybe that is a non-issue now that they are in the USA. -some of the measurements used to make Paras at one time varied slightly from the original JMB/Colt blueprint. Slide bore is one example - its larger than most and many bull barrels are too small to fit the bore. Seem too recall certain frame hole locations were slightly off as well (though they worked with factory Para parts. Dunno if a conversion to metric measurements had anything to do with it. -basic frame design is sound: it is the basis for the excellent Springfield highcap, as well as a few others (Enterprise Boxter comes to mind - though its discontinued I think). -Para's new extractor design is not very popular - and it uses a larger hole so it is not possible to go back to a regular 1911 piece. But, - the P16 shoots as nice as anything out there. For instance: a built Para shoots as well as a similar built Springfied custom. Slight mag capacity advantage too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 The early Para factory guns were a VERY good value, reliable and as accurate as ANY production gun out there. Recent production guns are not very good and absolutely terrible compared to the early factory guns. Builds on Para frames or re-work of Para guns is only as good as the guy doing the work, they range from great to garbage. I built a bunch of them in the early 90's that were absolutely reliable and accurate. Mags were cheap and readily available until the ban, and the mags worked right out of the package. I went away from them due to durability issues. I never had one last more than about 75K rounds before it was extremely loose and/or cracked the frame. Most of them that I shot much I sold around 40 or 50K rounds and built a new one. I still prefer the feel of them in hand, but the durability of the 2011 frames and US made magazines as well have me completely sold. My Open and Limited guns are nearing the point where a Para would have been sold and both are still very tight, very accurate, dead reliable, and show virtually no sign of wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Wonder if this will change any with Para now being a US-based Company? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HI5-O Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I have P16-40 and will not buy another P.O. again. While stock, it kept breaking barrel links and everything was a little loose (slide/frame). I sent it out to replace the barrel (because of breaking links and I won a bull barrel), found out the ramp cut and pin holes were slightly off and had to be re-welded and cut. Won't buy another one anytime soon. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 OK, I have been talking with my local gun dealer lately while trying to trade my Para 12-45 towards a Glock 17 or 34. I nearly fell over when I heard his offer!! (or lack thereof) He went on to tell me how, at one time, he was selling a BUNCH or them, then over the past couple of years he has been struggling with them. He mentioned that Para is suffering from a bad reputation and poor reliability. I am not sure if there are any consistancies, but I would like to know more.I have owned a P12-45 and a P14-45 Limited in SS and to be honest, have never had a problem with either that wasn't traceable to operator error. I know that they aren't an STI, Baer, Wilson, any other custom 1911/2011 but..... some of us are not ready/able to afford one but want to shoot a nice 1911/2011 style gun. All feedback is appreciated, good, bad or indifferent. Two years ago, Para did a group pistol purchase for the Rangers. It was based on the P-14 Limited with some special markings/engraving on it. The pistols were very inexpensive at aroud $700.00 for the pistol and 5 magazines. The slides were beautiful. The frames look like a 3rd grader cast them. The problem was that a high percentage of the pistols had various problems and had to be returned to work. I think we bought a total of around 226 pistols. I can only give details about the two I bought. One of them had an ambi safety that was defective from the factory. The other ran GREAT for two hundred rounds and then quit completely. The hammer would not drop, period. I did not want to void my warranty, so I returned it to Para. They fixed it, somehow and just reported they cleaned and adjusted it. Whatever, I got rid of both of them. Of course that was before I discovered USPSA. I should have kept one and had it tweaked by Howard for limited 10 gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Two years ago, Para did a group pistol purchase for the Rangers. How bout that, who knew that baseball players shoot so much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 The ones I have owned functioned well and were good guns. Been a while since I had a newer gun though so I can't speak to the quality of recent guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Two years ago, Para did a group pistol purchase for the Rangers. How bout that, who knew that baseball players shoot so much? I'm pretty sure you're just "fooling about" But the real Rangers were founded in 1823. The overpaid baseball players were founded in 1961 and moved to Arlington, Texas in 1972!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bore Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I have a P16 built in the early 90's it runs great after replacing the plastic mag release and dropping in a good trigger. It still has the stock extractor, barrel, and barrel link. I have had it for about 2 years with no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangeman711 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I have a P-14 with nearly 100K thru it,all 180 PF, still runs great. I also have a Dawson-Jarret P-16 with over 25K rds. ,continues to run great. I LOVE PARA'S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharonAnne9x23 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 the recent quality problems may be the motivating factor in moving the factory to the USA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiksaputok Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 i got a P16 with the claw extractor that wont run 100% got frustrated with it and decided to change the whole top end expensive but eliminates the problem...i love my para.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSabbath Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 (edited) When Para hit the shooting sports scene many years ago, competitors were excited about the added capacity. But, the metal in those early models wasn't very tough. It never became much better, either. Rule of thumb on a Para was to junk all their parts including the slide and rebuild with STI stuff. The Para fit my hands better than the STI/SVI guns, but Para never had the quality of those guns. Edited January 27, 2009 by BlackSabbath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianATL Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 My P-16 runs great, and it was only $500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Para sponsored a pin match several years ago . Rules required you to use Para supplied pistols , most looked fairly low mileage but slightly used . I have never seen so many DNF's in a single match . Maybe just a fluke or statistical anomaly ... Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I have two, an sx1640J and tx1640s (LDA). I used the LDA the first year i was in uspsa and it was ok, but the long trigger stroke, while very smooth, was just too slow to compete effectively. So i bought the Todd Jarrett model and have used it, box stock, ever since. It has about 25 to 30K rounds through it and the only problem i had was last summer the extractor claw broke off. Para sent me a new unit (both pieces) no charge and no other problems since. I have always thought Para's were a very good gun to get into Lim or Lim-10 at an affordable price. When some people get into the game they don't know if they will stick to it or even if they will like it a couple of years down the road. Because if you want to be "good" you must commit a fair amount of time and resources when you are a novice. Once you have sold your soul to the gods of lead and gun powder you can upgrade. But, if you are a fair weather shooter who doesn't mind spending a couple of years in C class, and shoots for the social aspect rather than the competition, then a Para is a good gun. And if you decide that your going to do more fishing this year then you're not out much money either. Since i have now sold my soul i have ordered a new gun from Shooters Connection and Dan Bedell that should be here before Valentines day, but i will keep my Para for a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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