1050 primer feed problems

[Dang It Dan]

I bought my Super 1050 about two months ago. The first two weeks were perfect, then I started crushing a primer now and then. Then more than that. Now up to 3-4 per hundred.

Did "most" all the things mentioned here BUT last night I took the primer tube off the machine again and looked at the blue tip of the primer rod, which I had just replaced about two weeks ago (at the suggestion of this board). On the leading face where the split is I noticed that it had been hitting something and caused a very small rough spot which also had distorted the plastic down below the bottom of the rest of the tip. I mean, a couple of thousandths. I took a small file and cleaned it back to flat and then some fine grain sand paper and just slicked it up a bit. I looked at the old tip which I still have and it has the same mark.

I just loaded three hundred rounds with no problems. That small piece of plastic was (I guess) snagging primers as they were being moved forward. Now, I have to find out what is hitting that tip because I am sure it will come back.

I am still planning on putting a steel plate under my machine which resides on a sturdy wood bench, and I am going to tether the case feeder with some wire to keep the movement to a minimum.

Will post if this really was my particular problem. Should know in about a week.

[lockmup68]

OK, I had waxed verbose in a reply and it didn't post. So here goes the condensed version.

Saturday was a rainy day, so decided to drag myself to the bench and try and get the dang 1050 running. Report:

1. started over, break down and clean, clean, clean (it was already clean, but went through the motions anyway to make sure I didn't leave a piece out somewhere)

2. polished (again) the primer pocket in the slide with the dremel and a polishing wheel. Nice and shiny.

3. polished the primer slide "alley" where the slide resides; smooth as silk

4. as suggested, took the rubber off the primer slide tray and adjusted the half moon stop out to align the hole with the tube, with some homemade shims (business card cut up for washers); took four business card widths to get the tray lined up perfect using my surefire as light and looking for the shiny cup at the bottom of the primer tube.

5. used a cutoff wheel on the dremel and cut a case in half to properly align the swage station; I had lowered it (out of use) as per one of the calls to Dillon previously. (I think this was a contributing factor to primer seating issues, more later)

6. realigned and retightened the main tool head bolt

7. primer slide tray action "arm" is parallel to the tray and adjusted properly

8. adjusted the rotating base plate for not too loose and not too tight; just right

9, adjusted the depriming die to just barely touching the baseplate as detailed out in the owner's manual

• Ran one piece of brass at a time for about 10 pieces, did good.
• Then tried two at a time for about 10 tries, did good
• then tried three at a time for about 5 runs, did good.
• (I was trying to determine what other station might be in play causing issues, therefore the multiple "several at a time" tests)
• then four pieces at a time, then five cases at a time, then six at a time....eight at a time, all stations occupied, so far so good. (knock on wood)

I did have a couple of hiccups, but I think these led to some a-ha moments. Since I have not loaded 45 in over a year and a half, the brass was clean, but just sitting in ziploc bags for a long time. The swaging station was discovering several cases where the primer was getting punched out, but was leaving the ring of the primer in the pocket. This might have been contributing to the smashed primers. I can feel when the swager doesn't go in the last 1/2 inch of the handle pull, just pull the tab off station #2, and sure enough, case with the primer ring in it still.

So decided to do 25 in a row a few times, by this time I am pounding on the wood and knuckles are getting bloody. Haven't had this many in a row with no smeared primers in so long, I didn't know what to think.

By this time, I had loaded a couple of hundred rounds. Really happy. More pounding on wood.

So today, I knocked out about 1000 rounds in a bit over two hours. I was not trying to go fast, just slow and steady. I only have 5 primer tubes, so had to stop and fill them up half way, also had to fill up powder once and of course keep the case feeder and bullet tray full. One primer was spit out in 1k rounds. I don't think it has ever been this consistent. Had some issues with the primer "rings" left in the pocket, and a few primers that did not pop out all the way and had to pull the case out of station #1 manually, but other than that, worked pretty good.

In thinking about it, I think two things made the difference:

1. taking the rubber off the slide tray. It is more consistent this way and doesn't slowly wear down moving the primer slide tray adjustment out of alignment.

2. Using the swage station finds the several primer rings left in the pocket after depriming. I guess the brass is old and just not allowing them to pop out? I tried digging a couple of those rings out with a pick and they will not move. I cut one case in half and it seems like the primer is corroded to the brass in the pocket. Don't know what I can do about this.

I appreciate everyone's suggestions. I'm sure I'll have to refresh when I do a caliber change over back to .40 after I knock out the 4k more of 45 I have to go.

Thanks,

Shannon

[Dang It Dan]

Ok,

So, I went ahead and installed a 3/16th steel plate under the machine which really did lessen the movement, plus I also installed a wire tether from the case feeder to a bracket on the wall behind the machine. No movement now.

BUT, even after going through all the motions I am still either crushing a primer or getting "no" primer about one per hundred. Getting no primer is not a big deal except it gets powder in the indexing ball which really screws things up.

Talked to a supervisor at Dillon. He immediately told me to clean my machine, which I told him I had done and he went on to tell me exactly how to clean it. Thanks, I said, I know how to clean it and that's not the problem. He then told me that everyone is putting out bad primers and said I needed to use Remmington primers. I said if I had to use ONLY Remmington primers, or a certian kind of brass, I might as well send the machine back now. He said he would send me some replacement parts - end of conversation.

I am sure he was trying to help me. I am equally sure he was going down a check list of sorts in order to diagnose the problem. I plan on calling back on Monday. I hope someone can hit on something that will eliminate the problem here.

[lockmup68]

Ok another update, cranked out ~2500 rounds in the last week since I did all the recommended tips on this list last Saturday,

What has made a difference for me? I believe it was the rubber hose on the primer slide tray (took it off) and adjusting it as Brian mentioned with a surefire light and lining up the primer pocket exactly with the primer tube, polishing the slide tray primer pocket, adjusting the swager with a case cut in half, and adjusting the decapping die so it just barely touches the plate without driving down into the bottom plate.

All of the issues I have had in loading the 2500 rounds, all happened in station 1 and 2 and you can feel it on the downstroke of the handle, take the case out, and keep on going. Each time it was a brass/old primer issue: either a) the primer getting pushed out, but hanging on by a corner and not popping all the way out in station 1 and hanging down where the base plate will not rotate around on the upstroke. To fix, simply pull the handle back down slightly, remove the pin for station 1 and remove the brass. Sometimes you have to use a pair of pliers as the still hanging on primer is down in the pocket hole. And it is a good idea to remove the brass that was just fed from the tube so you don't crush it on the full downstroke.

The other issue is found in station 2, swager, where the handle feels really "squishy" on the downstroke, but just the last 1/2 to inch of the stroke. I have found that this is either a) a primer "ring" still in the pocket (the primer pops out the bottom, but leaves a ring in the pocket) or a small primer piece of brass and a large swager rod trying to go in (in my case, the occasional 45 GAP brass getting in.

In the 2500 rounds, I had four primers spit out. I think each was my fault as I either cycled too fast on that stroke, or I was fixing one of the brass problems in station 1 or 2 and didn't compete the down stroke as needed.

Out of the 2500 rounds, I had two primers that were upside down in the round, and 4 no primers (spit out), but no smeared or double primers. I'm pretty sure that if I was using new brass, I wouldn't have any issues, or if I deprimed first and removed all the brass where the primer wasn't fully removed (no ring left) and removed the occasional 45 GAP that gets through the shell sorter trays, it would work fine. I do wonder about those with the autodrive how it works and if they preprocess or do different/singlular brass inspections before loading.

Knock on wood, but for right now, it is working as expected; although it has been a frustrating process, I'm glad it is working at the moment. I have about 3k more components to load in this batch, then I will cal change back to 40 and see if I can get that operating smoothly. Now that I think I know what to look for, I have high hope it will work better.

Again, appreciate the help and the tips.

Thanks and have a great day,

Shannon

[lockmup68]

Update #2, cranked out another 1500 rounds in last couple of days during conf calls (best way to pass time on a listen only conf call).

NO smeared primer problems and only 2 spit out primers during 1500 rounds.

Thought I would time myself for kicks, so pulled my phone out and while navigating over to the time, saw the surefire timer icon, so fired up the surefire shot timer. I only had 3 primer tubes filled and ready to go, so this is based on 300 rounds. This included filling up the case feeder (mine doesn't like to be too full, so only about 100-125 cases at a time or it won't turn). and I stopped to fill up the bullet tray twice, fill the primer tube twice, and take out the occasional bad brass (in my case, mostly primer rings stuck in the primer pocket). I also had one 9mm case stuck inside a 45 case that I had to remove.

That said, I found that the surefire timer, if placed right under the bin where the completed rounds drop, with the sensitivity all the way up, it would record the round hitting the bottom of an empty bin. Slow and steady wins the race, so wasn't trying to be fast. Some interesting findings:

1. 300 rounds, total elapsed time 19.61 minutes (avg of 3.9 seconds per round if my math is right)

2. For all the rounds recorded (like shots), range was 2.19 to 4.06 seconds per pull/round hitting the bottom of the bin.

3. For the interruptions (brass not advancing or the swager finding a primer ring in the brass) 5-7 seconds seemed to be the norm

4. there were a couple of 15-21 second spaces, which I assume is the primer refill (about the right time in the order)

HTH,

Shannon

[G-ManBart]

If anybody needs a fix for this problem, send me a note. I'm pretty sure I've found a 100% solution. Hint, the primer doesn't fall into the shuttle when the two are lined up perfectly the way some folks describe. The primer is waiting, and the shuttle moves to the rear, picking up the primer. Get it to go over center, and the primer will get pushed flush into the shuttle. All you really have to do is shim the stop bar so the shuttle can go farther than where the primer tube lines up with the primer pocket in the shuttle. It's also better to load the primers with the toolhead in the down position, so the primer shuttle can pick up the first primer the way it normally does. R,

[hrt4me]

If anybody needs a fix for this problem, send me a note. I'm pretty sure I've found a 100% solution. Hint, the primer doesn't fall into the shuttle when the two are lined up perfectly the way some folks describe. The primer is waiting, and the shuttle moves to the rear, picking up the primer. Get it to go over center, and the primer will get pushed flush into the shuttle. All you really have to do is shim the stop bar so the shuttle can go farther than where the primer tube lines up with the primer pocket in the shuttle. It's also better to load the primers with the toolhead in the down position, so the primer shuttle can pick up the first primer the way it normally does. R,

PM sent

[albog]

Hey, kbear, I had exactly the same problem, and with Federal primers. Winchesters seem to work OK. 90% of the problem was the swaging station. I don't think the swager, as it was set up initially by the factory, swaged the primer pocket enough to accommodate slightly larger Federal primers (as compared to Winchesters). I turned the swager rod screw counterclockwise approximately 1/8 of a turn (don't forget to loosen the locking nut at the bottom before doing that) and it seemed to solve the problem. I also strongly recommend to take the machine apart and throughly clean and lube everything, I did that and found a lot of cruched primers, spilled powder and other sh--t in the small nooks and crevices around the primer pusher rod and other moving parts. Before I thought of the swager, I was also of the opinion that the problem had something to do with the primer feeding slider and chamfered the primer seating opening on it just a touch. I don't know if it helped, but it definitely didn't hurt.

Good luck and let me know how it turned out.

[G29SF]

Dillon has not been able to solve this problem. I've spent far too many hours on the phone with them and the machine was returned Dillon and supposedly fixed but it's no better.

Out of every 100 rounds, one or two primers do not feed correctly. When it occurs, one primer, smeared at one side, and another undamaged primer are ejected onto the bench or the floor.

The damaged primer looks like this:

Sorry the pic isn't better.

When this occurs, a case is transferred to the powder station without a primer and depending on the powder, it makes a real mess as it runs out the primer hole. Sometimes I hear the primer get tossed out but not always.

I'm not loading real fast - 400-500 rounds per hour. The primer feed bar was already replaced without affecting anything, and the primer feed tube has been swapped with the one in my 550 where both work fine. I have no similar problems with the 550 so I doubt the Fed 205 primers are the problem. I cycle the lever to the stops at both ends.

Any ideas?

(Edited by kbear38S at 4:27 pm on Aug. 7, 2002)

I know I am late to the game here, but I finally solved my crushed-primer issues. After reading all of these types of threads and systematically troubleshooting this problem (using press, disassembling mid-cycle when issue occurred, etc.) I discovered I had my white primer tab too tight. Once I loosened it up, all my issues went away.

[spideysteve]

Good thing for the search feature. Read all 7 pages of this thread and tried most of the suggestions. Still get 2 or 3 out of 100 that don't seat properly and/or are crushed ...... This machine has already been back to dillon for work on the lower end (toolhead twisting) but at that time I never had one primer issue. Get it back and primers are my bane ...

Gonna go back to it on the weekend .....

[evofire]

Greetings - As a new owner of 1050's in multiple calibers I began with 9MM & small primers - specifically WSP & CCI #500, & experienced all of the loveliness herein this extended thread of pain. Many, many hours of disassembly to remove crushed & sheared primers, cleaning residue, etc. along with a moderate level of prayer to any higher power inclined to listen.

I believe in patience, tolerance, love & understanding, however, have been conflicted by at least three of the latter simultaneously during my right of 1050 passage - specifically oriented toward primer feeding. I am loading WCC 11 brass, however, when the primers feed, and the overwhelming majority of the time they DO NOT, they seat perfectly well - following adjustment regarding depth, and the rounds fire flawlessly. The problem is that it has taken days & to load under 300 rounds. Out of this number I have only experienced (3) "tipped" primer incertions, & this was before I made a slight adjustment. On the positive side, I can almost take the press apart in my sleepless nights............

For purposes of expediting a thorough resolution & gaining additional clarity for we newbees - would one of you kind contributors share a brief "Top 5/10 List" of what should be confirmed AND / OR changed FIRST? Right now I could not purchase entertainment in a house of ill-repute with a $100. bill on my forehead?

I thank you in advance for your time & consideration.

[noylj]

1) RITE of passage

2) Cleanliness is next to Godliness, particularly with ANY progressive. Stop everything if powder spills. Clean everything when ever and as soon as you can.

3) Didn't see it mentioned, but a LOT of primer problems are caused by the person who has to tighten everything and over tightens the primer blast shield cap and causes the plastic tip of the primer tube to distort/bend/close/open all the way or otherwise mess up

4) Inspection is everything. Never assume that things are fine but look and feel while you are assembling things to note any problems

5) For every press that primes on the press: alignment is everything--see note 4 above

[gigs]

2. Using the swage station finds the several primer rings left in the pocket after depriming. I guess the brass is old and just not allowing them to pop out?

Shannon

Ringed primers or "ringers" are indeed caused by some sort of corrosion. It happens more often in brass that has been damp or wet. If you wet wash brass with primer in, it's best to decap them promptly. You'll see more ringers after 2-3 weeks due to the dampness in the primer pocket causing this welding action.

[jlficken]

The rubber bumper is merely made from 1/8" automotive vacuum line. Go to

any car parts store and buy a foot of it, should last a lifetime.

I got a great deal on a trade for a barely(if ever) used S1050. It is missing the stand for the case feeder and a few brackets that I need to get as they were lost in a move but is complete otherwise.

Anyway, the little rubber bumper was torn so I did just what you said and got a couple feet of vacuum line but I can't help but wonder what the little rubber bumper is actually for? I have looked but can't seem to find its purpose.

[RaylanGivens]

Lots of good tips in this thread... My S1050 started smearing primers after 17,000+ rounds of successful reloading... I'll report back once I get it figured out...

[lockmup68]

This made my day, but was looking for Harlan, KY location.

[shakin_bakin]

Just refreshing this topic. Thanks everyone for the input. I went from 15% failure rate to 1%

 

i particularly got the most gain from using a light and looking down the primer tube and ensuring the primer slide was as perfect as possible centered. 

 

Also replaced my primer punch spring old one was defijitely out of spec.

 

Thanks for the help got me up and running!