Backup Gun For Competitons?

[Joe Mamma]

Does anyone have a backup gun for competitions?

Do many people have an identical gun with them when they shoot in matches just in case their first gun breaks? It sounds a little extreme (and expensive) to have 2 of the same gun but, I can't imagine having a gun break in a match and not being able to continue, especially in an important match. I assume you generally can't continue unless the second gun is the same?

Joe Mamma

[ErikW]

Yup. But I hardly ever bring both to a match. They are just too valuable/irreplaceable in California to risk getting them stolen when I park my truck at restaurant on the way to or from the match.

It's also good to have a backup when you've got the first gun off at the gunsmith getting tweaked or improved. There always seems to be something. (Narrowing the front sight, putting on ergonomically better parts, getting it hard chromed, etc.)

[a-44978]

I now have an STI 2011 rig but keep my glock rig up and running for when the metal thing pops a ps hose or somthing.

I'm also known to have extra hicaps for my carry gun ,i'm no threat to win in either case but i can at least finish the match

[shred]

I tend to keep my old guns when I get a new one, so the old one gets declared 'backup'. Saves carrying a lot of spare parts to a match, and as Erik says, if one's down for some reason, you have something to shoot.

[j1b]

In the past - I've always had an *almost* identical backup that I took to every match. It was tremendously beneficial. In addition, I shot with a couple of people who traveled to all the same matches that I did - and generally we were all shooting the same guns so there was always a back up. It was a nice luxury but by no means necessary.

I have broken guns at matches. Having a back up is great. Today if I shoot my 38 Super in IDPA I don't have a backup however I have a baggy full of spare parts. Aside from Barrel, slide and frame I have replacements for most everything else. If something major happens I'm out but in general if something minor happens I'm still in the game.

It's good to have some type of back-up strategy although for most people I would say spare parts for parts that run the threat of breaking is the best plan.

JB

[a-44978]

I shoot an STI because it is a pretty gun but........................The Glock

Is a competitors dream,ever seen a Glock amorers kit?Simplicity at its best.

I'm just a lowly B LIM,maybe i can't appreciate the nicer gun but i shoot the same with my 22,35 or my 2011.

As i improve i hope to justify the big investment in "upgrading my gear"

[BerettaRacer]

I've got one gun that is always set up for open.

Another is always set up for production.

A third, usually used as my steel plate gun, can quite easily be de-tuned to back up the production rig or up-tuned to fill in for the open gun. It won't be quite as good the main gun but it will work to finish up a match, or until the main gun I'm using can be repaired.

[Flexmoney]

Depends on the gun.

(Note that the backup needs to be of the same make and model for USPSA. No STI to Glock.)

[DBChaffin]

You got a rule number for that Flex?

I don't see "same make and model" listed anywhere in the rulebook.

Just for arguments sake, the rulebook says in 5.2.6 (and US 5.2.6) "that a competitor shall use the same firearm/sighting system combination for all courses of fire. However, in the event that a competitors original handgun becomes unserviceable or unsafe during a competition, they may seek permission from the officiating Range Master to use a substitute handgun provided:"

US 5.2.6.1 The substitute handgun satisfies the requirements of the declared Division and is of the same type, action, caliber, and type of sights as the handgun the competitor used to start the competition.

US 5.2.6.2 In using the substitute handgun the competitor will not gain a competitive advantage.

US 5.2.6.3 The competitor's ammunition, when tested in the substitute handgun, attains the minimum power factor for the declared Division using the official match chronograph.

What is "same type, action"? That can be read pretty openly. Same type: semi-automatic doublestack pistol? Action: Short-recoil Browning tilting barrel? If true, then a .40 cal. Glock with iron sights could replace a .40 STI, no? Who is going to argue you are gaining a competitive advantage with the Glock? (Ok, you and a few others might).

I'll admit I could support a strict interpretationalist reading of the rule that you subscribe to above, I'll have to provide a brief story that supports my argument.

At the 2001 Limited Nationals, a friend of mine shooting in my squad had his Fiber Optic front sight fly off his STI in the middle of the stage. Not the fiber mind you, but the whole sight broke off. He asked if he could shoot the next stage, our last of the day, with his backup gun, a Para P16-40. Incidentally, he had actually brought the Para because two of the other shooters from here that were in the squad were actually shooting them... The match staff called for the range master, who heard the situation. He had a problem because the last stage of the day was a small field course of 20 rounds or a few less (18 maybe?). Paras are generally known to hold a round or two more than an STI, so he was worried about this being a "competitive advantage". My friend told the Rangemaster he would download to the capacity of his STI if that would help, but he showed him the broken sight and said he could get it fixed before the next days shooting. The Rangemaster conferenced with some other match staff, and then allowed him to switch and told him to get it fixed and shoot the rest of the match with it. So my friend shot the stage with the Para, stopped by Dawson's booth that afternoon and got a new front sight installed, and shot the STI for the rest of the match. And no, I don't think they chronoed the Para like they should have.

I add this story not to provide any real weight to the argument. The match director could have made a mistake because he let him use a gun that was not the same "make and model". I don't necessarily think he did though. He interpreted the rule and applied it to the best of his ability. Shooters travel a long way and spend a lot of money to shoot big matches. I believe in following the rule book, but the wording has to be examined and if not completely clear the rangemaster must make a fair decision, as fair as possible to the shooter involved and everyone else shooting the match. Just my $.02.

[Flexmoney]

Bryant,

I agree completely with the logic. (And, I agree with the concept too. )

You buddy was either lucky to get the Range Master that he did, or the Range Master dug into rule after that match. Because, in 2002, one of the Range Masters (there were two working that match) from the 2001 Lim Nats gave our RO class. I was his ride to and from the airport.

As we were driving, and talking about guns (big suprise), I related a story about how my girlfriend's Para had broke on her during a match (another big suprise )...and, how she had finished with my Glock. He told me that that was not allowed (but this was a Steel Challenge match, so the USPSA rules didn't apply).

During the RO class, he covered this rule in greater detail. His teaching was that a Para was Not an STI..was NOT a Glock.

My thoughts are in line with yours...they are all recoil operated, magazine feed, semi-automatic bullet spitters.

But, I don't think I would take off to the Nationals with an SV as a back-up to a Para.

[shred]

Wierd.. everybody I've talked so pretty much says "Same Division? Same Caliber? No Competitive Advantage? Go ahead and swap." You don't want to be going down the "same type" path.. Is an STI the same as an SV? a CMC? a TRI? and SPS?. Is a Springfield XD the same as a HS-2000?. Is a Tanfoglio not the same as a CZ? And so on..

We discussed the "type of sights" issue with Vince a while back and he said while the rules are vague, all of the rules-committee folks would allow an Aimpoint sighted-gun could be exchanged for a C-more gun on the theory that "Type of sights = Red Dot". They're supposedly clarifiying this in the new edition, but I haven't checked it yet. Assuming that's the case, it'd be hard to argue that an otherwise compliant Para is a different "type" than an STI or Caspian.

[ErikW]

I'll float along this thread drift....

When my A Limited gun sight broke at our section championship, I asked the Range Master (a C.R.O., our section coordinator) permission to switch to my B gun. I had to show in the safe area that both were long dust cover, heavy slide, bull barrel 2011 guns. Not sure what he'd do now that one has a fixed sight and the other a Bo-Mar; one has a tungsten barrel sleeve, etc.

Looks to me like the R.M. has wide latitude to approve or reject replacement guns. The word "type" can mean anything.

[Flexmoney]

Looks to me like the R.M. has wide latitude to approve or reject replacement guns. The word "type" can mean anything.

Looks like it...I guess we take our chances???

[ErikW]

It's a shame, because if your gun broke before your last target on a stage, you are out of the competition and you're just there for fun anyway.

[Nik Habicht]

Fior my summer tour I hauled along the G34 Production Gun, the G17 identically equipped back-up Gun and the G34 (no longer legal for Production) IDPA/Limited gun along with spare parts. (The second G34 was for barrel or slide replacement.)

[Julien Boit]

I always carry two pistols for matches.

I had to use the back up once because hammer's main pistols didn't stop following on two short stages, so I took off of my bag my training/backup gun which became my training only pistols after I bought another "match pistol".

I think it's like when you carry a gun for life protection :

You got it , you have no need for it at the moment, but if you do, you'll be happy to have it !

[TRG65]

Being new to USPSA, and preparing my gear for my first USPSA match I had this question. So I did a search, but there didn't seem to be a conclusion to the question.

I wanted to be sure a set-up like Nik's was legal, except mine would be reversed.

My primary gun is a 17, my back-up is a 34. In my opinion they are set-up almost identically, except the obvious barrel/slide difference. Both have similar trigger pull, dawson green fronts, adjustable target rears (one dawson, one inset bo-mar) with white painted outlines, bar-sto barrels, and most importantly they both have trugrip grips.

Thanks

Seth

[texasag93]

Yes, shoot a G35, back up is my old P16 Limited. But, everyone tells me that I don't need a back up since I shoot a Glock. I will keep the back up anyway. TXAG

[folsoml]

I ahve two competition guns. A single stack Colt Mark IV and a Para P16. Obviously, the single stack would not make much of a Limited gun, but I primarily shoot Limited 10 anyway (the P16 is a newly acquired gun that I've yet to shoot in a major match).

[Duane Thomas]

A goal of mine in the near future is to get a second Glock 34 and set it up just like my match/carry gun, for exactly the reasons Joe Mamma mentioned. Nice thing about Glocks, you can do this without breaking the bank, and most repairs and upgrades are a simple matter of replacing parts.

[BismarckC]

In the new USPSA Version Rule Book (Green Cover), it is rule 5.1.7. Basically it is with the Range Master's permission (discretion). The gun must meet the requirements of the Division, ammunition must chrono per Rule 5.6.3.9, and with the substitute gun the competitor will not gain an advantage.

Troy McManus covered this at a recent Level 1 RO Class

I could see someone arguing that a G34 has an advantage over a G17.

[Duane Thomas]

Good thing my Glock 34 would be replacing another Glock 34.

[Ted Murphy]

For my Glocks I carry a kit with every part but bbl, slide, and frame. I'm going to pick up a back up later this summer and have it on hand for majors.

With wheelguns, I always bring a second. When they screw up , they screw up good, so it pays to grab another rather than try to fix it. (unless it's something simple like a loose screw of course)

We had a guy break the trigger return spring on his last shot of his last stage at the IDPA nats last year. Pretty lucky for him.

Ted

[TDean]

At National and Area matches I'll bring my SV backup gun. I would first try to swap broken parts in my primary, but in case of a catastrophic event (sheared barrel lugs, double-charge load) I want to still be in the game.

[Stumpnav]

Kind of gets to be that old problem that plagues USPSA. COST. If I fork out enough money to get a Limited gun, belt, holster, Dillon, bullets, etc I'm out a pretty penny. Yes, even you Tupperware boys are out a chunk of change. Now, assume I'm really into this and want to go to an Area or Nationals. I've now got to pawn the baby's shoes to buy an exact duplicate for my backup gun. Ridiculous!! If I have an old single stack 45 laying around I should be able to use it. I certainly won't gain an advantage and it keeps me from getting very frustrated when my gun goes south on the second stage. If I'm not allowed to compete with my not quite the same backup gun, then I'm out entry fee, hotel, vacation days, travel money etc. Not exactly what we want to keep our sport growing.