If you could have only one non-custom 1911...

[kgunz11]

I'd encourage you to support the companies/people that support our sport. You will rarely, if ever, see Kimber, Wilson, Baer, Nightforce, Ed Brown, Ruger, etc, sponsor a match or a stage. Companies like STI, SVI, Caspian, S&W and gunsmiths/shops like Brazos, Dawson, Shooters Connection/Bedell, SSI, Millenium Custom, MGM, and many more are at the matches, pony up the goods so we have prize tables and sometimes pony up cash to help clubs afford to hold a match without raising the entry fees we play.

I'm sorry Sir, but Nightforce is a large contributor to matches. Maybe not USPSA matches but I don't see anyone using a NF scope on their open guns either. Wilson Combat is also a huge IDPA sponsor as well. I cannot comment on the others, just wanted to get the story straight on 2 of the best in what they do. They don't need additional marketing, their business is as good as it gets, yet they continue to give away free product to the community. I had one NF certificate last year at the Practical Marksman Challenge and since we are doing 2 weekends this year I have 2 NF certificates. Nightforce has been very good to me personally, and to the community even when they don't have to.

All the companies that you mention are great sponsors of shooting events but does Nightforce make a 1911? I am pretty sure that's what this thread is about.

I didn't bring Nightforce into the conversation, just correcting a false statement made by G-ManBart. In the meanwhile, the thread is also not about sponsorship, but you too wanted to debate that with him.

[sfinney]

Since we are talking 1911s, I assume he meant Nighthawk?

[kgunz11]

Since we are talking 1911s, I assume he meant Nighthawk?

You might be on to something there.

[Jman]

It's been years but I loved my Kimber Custom Target. And they do support USPSA. At least indirectly. That glossy ad on the back cover of Front Sight has been running for years and years.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/custo...stom_target_II/

Another country heard from.

Jim

[ChuckS]

I didn't bring Nightforce into the conversation, just correcting a false statement made by G-ManBart. In the meanwhile, the thread is also not about sponsorship, but you too wanted to debate that with him.

No, I pointed out that there was a another 1911 manufacturer who met the criteria of being a major match sponsor

Back to the thread: Yup, don't over look Kimber and Springfield. I see quite a few out there

Later,

Chuck

PS: Now this is genuine thread drift: Mako, I think Tom Baker was the best Dr. Who, hands down!

Edited January 6, 2009 by ChuckS

[G-ManBart]

I'd encourage you to support the companies/people that support our sport. You will rarely, if ever, see Kimber, Wilson, Baer, Nightforce, Ed Brown, Ruger, etc, sponsor a match or a stage. Companies like STI, SVI, Caspian, S&W and gunsmiths/shops like Brazos, Dawson, Shooters Connection/Bedell, SSI, Millenium Custom, MGM, and many more are at the matches, pony up the goods so we have prize tables and sometimes pony up cash to help clubs afford to hold a match without raising the entry fees we play.

I'm sorry Sir, but Nightforce is a large contributor to matches. Maybe not USPSA matches but I don't see anyone using a NF scope on their open guns either. Wilson Combat is also a huge IDPA sponsor as well. I cannot comment on the others, just wanted to get the story straight on 2 of the best in what they do. They don't need additional marketing, their business is as good as it gets, yet they continue to give away free product to the community. I had one NF certificate last year at the Practical Marksman Challenge and since we are doing 2 weekends this year I have 2 NF certificates. Nightforce has been very good to me personally, and to the community even when they don't have to.

I did mean to type Nighthawk, but we're not talking about long range rifle events here, so Nightforce wouldn't really be considered a company sponsoring practical pistol shooting of any kind.

Sure, Wilson sponsors IDPA, no doubt and I should have broadened my scope beyond USPSA to include IDPA....since nobody really shoots IDPA here I don't think about it much.

And for the folks saying that Kimber supports the sport by having a magazine ad, nah, that doesn't really cut it. All of the companies we're talking about have advertising budgets, which is what Kimber is doing in Front Sight. They simply don't sponsor matches or stages the way that other companies do. I don't think I've ever seen a Kimber sponsored shooter either, which is also a pretty good indicator of their involvement in the sport.

I think everyone can agree that the primary point being made is that it's entirely possible to purchase almost anything you need to be competitive in this sport from those companies that do the most to support our sport by sponsoring matches/stages, shooters etc. It's extremely likely that you can do that AND support an Enos Forum sponsor company at the same time and very likely get as good, or better price as you'll find anywhere.

[Merlin Orr]

If you are interested in a "shooter" 1911 - Buy any 1911 mentioned so far in this thread and get a bucket of ammo and start shooting. If it breaks fix it and keep on shooting. All of the guns will get the job done.

If you are interested in a collector - buy an old and completely original gun and put it in the safe.

[kgunz11]

I'd encourage you to support the companies/people that support our sport. You will rarely, if ever, see Kimber, Wilson, Baer, Nightforce, Ed Brown, Ruger, etc, sponsor a match or a stage. Companies like STI, SVI, Caspian, S&W and gunsmiths/shops like Brazos, Dawson, Shooters Connection/Bedell, SSI, Millenium Custom, MGM, and many more are at the matches, pony up the goods so we have prize tables and sometimes pony up cash to help clubs afford to hold a match without raising the entry fees we play.

I'm sorry Sir, but Nightforce is a large contributor to matches. Maybe not USPSA matches but I don't see anyone using a NF scope on their open guns either. Wilson Combat is also a huge IDPA sponsor as well. I cannot comment on the others, just wanted to get the story straight on 2 of the best in what they do. They don't need additional marketing, their business is as good as it gets, yet they continue to give away free product to the community. I had one NF certificate last year at the Practical Marksman Challenge and since we are doing 2 weekends this year I have 2 NF certificates. Nightforce has been very good to me personally, and to the community even when they don't have to.

I did mean to type Nighthawk, but we're not talking about long range rifle events here, so Nightforce wouldn't really be considered a company sponsoring practical pistol shooting of any kind.

Sure, Wilson sponsors IDPA, no doubt and I should have broadened my scope beyond USPSA to include IDPA....since nobody really shoots IDPA here I don't think about it much.

And for the folks saying that Kimber supports the sport by having a magazine ad, nah, that doesn't really cut it. All of the companies we're talking about have advertising budgets, which is what Kimber is doing in Front Sight. They simply don't sponsor matches or stages the way that other companies do. I don't think I've ever seen a Kimber sponsored shooter either, which is also a pretty good indicator of their involvement in the sport.

I think everyone can agree that the primary point being made is that it's entirely possible to purchase almost anything you need to be competitive in this sport from those companies that do the most to support our sport by sponsoring matches/stages, shooters etc. It's extremely likely that you can do that AND support an Enos Forum sponsor company at the same time and very likely get as good, or better price as you'll find anywhere.

I agree with everything except "since nobody really shoots IDPA here"... I thought there were quite a few IDPA shooters here. And I completely agree about buying from those that support us, in whatever shooting discipline, rather it be long range rifle, 3 gun, or pistol.

[redmanfixit]

Springfield Operator. Their customer service is excellent. They treat you like a regular person, are polite and helpful. They often go out of their way to "make it up" to you if something does go wrong with any of the many excellent guns they make. I really like their 1911's......There are so many really good ones in that price range. I've dragged people to big gun stores for " fondling" sessions. One or another will call out to you. It'll be just right. Go to matches, take some .45 ammo with you and ask if you can try someones gun out after a match. Find out what really nice, helpful people participate in this sport!!

[Jman]

And for the folks saying that Kimber supports the sport by having a magazine ad, nah, that doesn't really cut it. All of the companies we're talking about have advertising budgets, which is what Kimber is doing in Front Sight. They simply don't sponsor matches or stages the way that other companies do. I don't think I've ever seen a Kimber sponsored shooter either, which is also a pretty good indicator of their involvement in the sport.

Like I said, "indirectly". I'm sure the USPSA is very thankful of the business Kimber sends their way on a regular basis. But Bart, you're right. Would it kill them to throw us a bone in some big area matches and the Nationals? Beats me as to why they don't.

Never the less. Kimber does build a pretty sweet .45

[j1b]

Springfield Operator. Their customer service is excellent. They treat you like a regular person, are polite and helpful. They often go out of their way to "make it up" to you if something does go wrong with any of the many excellent guns they make. I really like their 1911's......There are so many really good ones in that price range. I've dragged people to big gun stores for " fondling" sessions. One or another will call out to you. It'll be just right. Go to matches, take some .45 ammo with you and ask if you can try someones gun out after a match. Find out what really nice, helpful people participate in this sport!!

I second this recommendation.

[G-ManBart]

I agree with everything except "since nobody really shoots IDPA here"... I thought there were quite a few IDPA shooters here. And I completely agree about buying from those that support us, in whatever shooting discipline, rather it be long range rifle, 3 gun, or pistol.

I was talking about "here" as in where I live rather than the forum. I'm not sure why, but it just doesn't seem to have a very robust local following so I don't think about it much, but you're right, Wilson does support IDPA in a big way.

[makomachine]

PS: Now this is genuine thread drift: Mako, I think Tom Baker was the best Dr. Who, hands down!

The ONLY Dr. Who in this man's book...

Didn't mean to stir the pot folks, just looking for some experienced opinions on the merits of the firearms themselves. Sounds like we got a bit into the symantics here and lost the point of the thread. I appreciate the suggestions and look forward to more input on the +/-'s of the various 1911 models and manufacturers.

[38supPat]

I grabbed a Kimber Custom II last year and shot it in a local Level II. It worked perfect and I placed third against a bunch of S_I .40's

So far it has been accurate and reliable, the only issue I have is with the Firing pin safety. Because it works off of the beavetail, it is possible to depress the grip safety enough to drop the hammer, without disengaging the firingpin safety....makes for a loud click on a stage!

[McAllyn]

I'd have to agree with the Springers mentioned already. I have a Champion .45 that has an amazing record of reliability. I'm pretty sure I paid below $750 for it, and that would leave a lot of room for a rig and ammo. Now, if I were going to compete in SS, I'd probably lean towards one of the S_I's mentioned, but without a lot of searching, you'd be hard pressed to get a good complete rig for sub-$1000.

Mac

[DaveM]

Warning: the following lists of companies are not intended to be all-inclusive. If I've left out your favorite, or pet peeve, it's not intentional and there's no need to try to make the list all-inclusive. It's purely to illustrate a point about giving business to the companies that do the most to support our sport(s).

I'd encourage you to support the companies/people that support our sport. You will rarely, if ever, see Kimber, Baer, Nighthawk, Ed Brown, Ruger, etc, sponsor a match or a stage. Companies like STI, SVI, Caspian, S&W and gunsmiths/shops like Brazos, Dawson, Shooters Connection/Bedell, SSI, Millenium Custom, MGM, and many more are at the matches, pony up the goods so we have prize tables and sometimes pony up cash to help clubs afford to hold a match without raising the entry fees we play.

If you can't/don't want to spend the money on a full custom gun I'd say to take a look at what some of those companies/shops/smiths offer and also cross-reference that with the sponsors here on Brian's forums and see if you can make the two match up with what you're looking for.

I needed a .40 SS gun on short notice so I bought a Trojan from one of our sponsors and then bought all new fire control parts, safeties, magwell and mags from other sponsors and sent it off for a trigger job and reliablility package. I went pretty much full bore on it and probably have something like $1600 in it, but it's been crazy accurate and perfectly reliable (it did seem to work perfectly well before I sent it to the smith). The weekend I dropped the gun off with the smith I managed to win my class at Area-2 and got a free 2011 frame from STI, so I felt even better about the Trojan purchase!

I guess I agree in principle if all else is equal support USPSA sponsers. I don't however agree with bashing people who choose something else. It his hard earned money, get what you like. I had a STI trusight it had to go back to me that's unacceptable for that price gun. My dad had a springfield the lug broke off the bottom of the barrel without too many rounds on it. Don't even get me started with S&W. So yes I have a Kimber that is accurate and 100% reliable, but I do catch crap about it from time to time. Maybe I just got lucky and got a good one. Lord knows I gave STI/Springfield/S&W a try.

[bbbean]

Warning: the following lists of companies are not intended to be all-inclusive. If I've left out your favorite, or pet peeve, it's not intentional and there's no need to try to make the list all-inclusive. It's purely to illustrate a point about giving business to the companies that do the most to support our sport(s).

I'd encourage you to support the companies/people that support our sport. You will rarely, if ever, see Kimber, Baer, Nighthawk, Ed Brown, Ruger, etc, sponsor a match or a stage. Companies like STI, SVI, Caspian, S&W and gunsmiths/shops like Brazos, Dawson, Shooters Connection/Bedell, SSI, Millenium Custom, MGM, and many more are at the matches, pony up the goods so we have prize tables and sometimes pony up cash to help clubs afford to hold a match without raising the entry fees we play.

I agree with the gist of this (assuming we add SA to the good list). Its always nice to support the people who support you. My favorite brand of beer for several years was determined by the sponsorship of my favorite blues festival!

[G-ManBart]

I guess I agree in principle if all else is equal support USPSA sponsers. I don't however agree with bashing people who choose something else. It his hard earned money, get what you like. I had a STI trusight it had to go back to me that's unacceptable for that price gun. My dad had a springfield the lug broke off the bottom of the barrel without too many rounds on it. Don't even get me started with S&W. So yes I have a Kimber that is accurate and 100% reliable, but I do catch crap about it from time to time. Maybe I just got lucky and got a good one. Lord knows I gave STI/Springfield/S&W a try.

I didn't bash anyone for choosing any particular gun and I didn't bash anyone at all in any other way. I did suggest that, in my opinion, Kimber buying an ad in Front Sight isn't even remotely close to what other companies do to support our sport. They're only doing it to sell product and attempt to penetrate our niche market. It's not about making matches better, or making better prize tables, or anything other than some bean counter saying "hey if we advertise here, we'll make more money". I don't dislike Kimber at all, but their "support" really isn't. For as many folks in our sport that do own Kimbers it would be nice to see them donate a gun here and there, maybe sponsor a stage or a match...maybe one nearest their headquarters? I don't have any kind of data to support this, but I'd be willing to bet that Kimber's sales figures are an order of magnitude more than a company like STI...but STI has their contingency program and sponsors a lot of matches and stages right? Seems odd that the little company can swing it and not the big company.

Certainly, if the threadstarter finds a Kimber that fits his budget, looks and feels right to him, it's not going to be a terrible choice and I'm not going to give him a hard time about it...not that I'd have any grounds to. Hey, come shoot what ya got is a great philosophy. If however, you get someone starting out and they're asking about the guns and companies they might consider I'd suggest a company that supports our sport with significant, real support.

[kgunz11]

Here Here G-manBart. Well said!

[JakeMartens]

I would check out the Dan Wesson PM7

or if you want a .40s&w they make the SSC model.

http://www.cz-usa.com/products_dan_wesson.php

[Kimberdude]

My first post, and my $.02!

I am a Kimber owner, the only mods are mag well and CTC grips, as I do not shoot competition, CCW only.

I have fired many thousands of rounds and never even one hiccup on the part of the gun, a few on mine!

Reliability is paramount when you bet your life on it. I will never hesitate to carry this weapon, and it cost $1025.00 NIB.

Oh, model is CDP II, 4".

IMHO can't go wrong with a Kimber.

[steel1212]

I've avoided this thread for some reason but I'll give my .02. I'm a springer nut so I'll always choose springfield. Everytime I've called with a question I get a nice person on the other end to answer the phone and be polite and answer said questions. All my STI guns are customs so I pretty much go to my gun smith for that one but with the way STI supports the sport with contingency, sponsorship, stage/match sponsors, I don't think you can go wrong with them either. I won't go into the "Kimber supports us" because its the same argument every time.

Lastly, pick a dang gun and get to shooting SS!!!

[MichiganShootist]

IMO you can't go wrong with a Springfield. Shop hard and you can come up with a new Trophy Match for under $1K and have a lifetime guarnteed shooter.

Put a $30 FO front sight on it and you are set with a state of the art SS (for a factory gun). They come with the adjustable sights, strap checkering, match barrel, adjustable trigger stop, and mag well that many others do not have.

I have found their customer service to be second to none and their support of both USPSA ans IDPA is top drawer.

[sheik_djibouti]

base model kimber. better yet, a solid used kimber custom. having been inside their factory many times, i can attest to the fact that many a base model gun shot circles around their gold match and higher price tag guns.

[zhunter]

USPSA Classifieds have some good deals this morning, take a look