9mm Load for Disabled Shooter

[kylethunder380]

Hey guys, I am a disabled shooter (spinal cord injury) and am going to start reloading my own ammunition. I shoot .380 and 9mm, which is pretty much my limit (I can't comfortably shoot .40sw or .45acp for very long out of ALL guns I have tried). I am looking for a load for my 9mm target gun, which is an all-steel EAA Witness Elite Match (the weight and design of the gun helps me considerably when it comes to managing the recoil). I usually shoot Winchester USA "White Box" 115gr FMJ or their 147gr JHP which I like, but feel like there is room for improvement in the recoil department. I have not purchased bullets or powder yet so there are no limitations on your recommendations other than low recoil followed closely by accuracy. That said, I would like to avoid the 115gr and bump-up to 124gr and 147gr bullet weights. The Win USA 147gr JHP feels noticably "slower" coming out of the barrel but the gun still functions (I don't know what weight recoil spring is in there). If it matters, I shoot steel at 25yds mainly but warm-up at 7yds a lot as well. What would you suggest for powder and bullet combos?

[Merlin Orr]

Welcome to the Forums...

I'll leave the loading advise to someone familiar with your chosen gun.

[atbarr]

Welcome! I'll also let some pros answer this.

A.T.

[Duane Thomas]

In your situation I would lean toward 147-gr. bullets with one of the faster burning powders. Something like N310 or N320 would be the ticket if your pocketbook can afford it. Check out the burn charts and choose a powder toward the faster end of the scale. Heavy bullets/fast powders tend to give considerably "softer" i.e. slower recoil than lighter bullets/slower powders.

If it comes right down to it, don't be afraid to go to a lighter recoil spring, or even a lighter mainspring, to get your gun to cycle with a light load.

[kylethunder380]

In your situation I would lean toward 147-gr. bullets with one of the faster burning powders. Something like N310 or N320 would be the ticket if your pocketbook can afford it. Check out the burn charts and choose a powder toward the faster end of the scale. Heavy bullets/fast powders tend to give considerably "softer" i.e. slower recoil than lighter bullets/slower powders.

If it comes right down to it, don't be afraid to go to a lighter recoil spring, or even a lighter mainspring, to get your gun to cycle with a light load.

I noticed that Solo 1000 is sort-of in between N310 and N320, but cheaper- would this be powder be a good choice to get me started at least (with the 147gr bullets) ?

[High Lord Gomer]

Where are you? Maybe one of us that is already reloading can let you try a few combinations.

[Graham Smith]

I agree on the 147gr bullets. I have tested Clays with both TMJ and JHP 147's and found I can get a nice comfortable load.

You might also want to try purchasing some Atlanta Arms 147gr reloads. I shot them in a Glock 19 this past year in Production and they were very nice.

[All-Gator]

Grahm,

Would you mind sharing some data on 147/Clays loads??

Thanks

A-G

[DougCarden]

If you are going to shoot lead 147s, I would recommend the Solo 1000. You can use CLAYS with the 147s with jacketed bullets, but load them long....1.130 at least. Depending on the gun I am thinking the Solo load will be more accurate, but it may be up to the gun.

The ultimate 130PF soft load is a 147-150gr load, 1.130 OAL with 3.1gr VV310.....

Good luck with your new hobby!

DougC

[Tom S.]

I have a load that I use in a Browning HP GP-Competition and a Sig P228 you might try. Be forewarned: this load may require lighter springs in your gun to feed and function properly!

115 SWC Penn (mfg) Bullet with 5.0 grains of DuPont IMR 4756, OAL = 1.110" This is a very mild load that is also accurate. Since powder comes in 1 pound containers equal to 7,000 grains, you can see this is also very economical. (7,000/5 = 1400 rounds!) The bullets can be ordered here: http://www.pennbullets.com/9mm/9mm-caliber.html I have bought bullets from the since 1994. They are one of the few sources for 115gr SWC lead bullets and will even size them to match your barrel specs. Prices are $36 for 500 / $70 for 1000.

I also reduced the above load to 4.7 grains. It functioned fine in the Browning, which has reduced weight springs, but not in the Sig.

Hope this helps!!

Edited December 18, 2008 by Tom S.

[Graham Smith]

Would you mind sharing some data on 147/Clays loads??

I'll have to rummage through my files since it was over a year ago that I was experimenting with 147's. But basically I started with a low end book value and then adjusted it a bit.

[All-Gator]

Graham,

Thanks for the reply

A-G

[robertbank]

IF you don't mind shooting lead, 4.1 gr of Win 231 under 124/125 gr lead bullets will make minor PF for IPSC and IDPA requirement of 125. Load is about as soft shooting as you can get and be legal for the games. If you shoot jacketed 124/125 gr bullets then 4.7 gr of Unique will get you the same velocities with just a tad more recoil. In theory the 124 gr. bullets should be slightly more accurate then the 147 given the rifling rate of twist.

Take Care

Bob

[Alwaystryin]

The Lyman book shows 2.8 grains of clays as a max for 147 grain lead. But they list the OAL at 1.058 which is shorter than the 1.15 oal I load to.

Grahm,

Would you mind sharing some data on 147/Clays loads??

Thanks

A-G

[sslav]

In your situation I would lean toward 147-gr. bullets with one of the faster burning powders. Something like N310 or N320 would be the ticket if your pocketbook can afford it. Check out the burn charts and choose a powder toward the faster end of the scale. Heavy bullet/fast powder tends to give considerably "softer" i.e. slower recoil than lighter bullets/slower powders.

If it comes right down to it, don't be afraid to go to a lighter recoil spring, or even a lighter mainspring, to get your gun to cycle with a light load.

I noticed that Solo 1000 is sort-of in between N310 and N320, but cheaper- would this be powder be a good choice to get me started at least (with the 147gr bullets) ?

I use Solo 1000 with molly coated 147 gr bullets. I believe 3.5 gr makes pf of about 135 out of M&P Pro. Recoil is very manageable.

Slav

[kylethunder380]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I should mention that I am not required to meet minor power factor for this load, it just needs to be enough to function well in my gun. I would prefer using a cheaper powder than the VV to start out with, this way I can experiment a bit and afford to mess up a few times working with the new press. Yes- lead or moly bullets are fine with me. I am fine with loading out to 1.15 OAL if it means I can use Clays safely. But, are you saying that you can use Clays ONLY with lead bullets?

[Alwaystryin]

You can use clays safely loading 2.8 grains to 1.058 using 147 grain lead bullets. I just use 1.15 becasue it feeds in everything I put it in.

I have not seen a book that lists clays with 147 jacketed bullet.

Since power factor is not an issue for you, the book starts at 1.9 grains of clays with a lead 147 for 650 fps.

If it functioned I bet it would sound like a .22LR

Thanks for all the replies guys. I should mention that I am not required to meet minor power factor for this load, it just needs to be enough to function well in my gun. I would prefer using a cheaper powder than the VV to start out with, this way I can experiment a bit and afford to mess up a few times working with the new press. Yes- lead or moly bullets are fine with me. I am fine with loading out to 1.15 OAL if it means I can use Clays safely. But, are you saying that you can use Clays ONLY with lead bullets?

[All-Gator]

OK...I went to the range with my chrono.

Range brass rolled through a Casepro; Zero 147 JHPs; WSR; and loaded to 1.151. Overcast and 71 degrees.

grains average fps PF

2.7 785.5 115

2.8 810.4 119

3.0 871.4 128

3.2 899.7 132 (slightly compressed powder)

3.4 923.2 136 ( " " " )

Since this is for Production Division, that's where I stopped. I don't think one could get even close to Major.

A-G

BTW: The data is for Clays. And, yes, the 2.7 sounded just a tad louder than a mouse fart. No recoil to speak of.

Edited December 19, 2008 by All-Gator

[Alwaystryin]

What barrel length?

Did you have any pressure signs at 3.0 grains or above?

OK...I went to the range with my chrono.

Range brass rolled through a Casepro; Zero 147 JHPs; WSR; and loaded to 1.151. Overcast and 71 degrees.

Edited December 19, 2008 by Alwaystryin

[bompa]

I must be real old fashoned..I like a 147 lead in front of 3.2 gr of bullseye as long as mags ans chamber allow..

Don't know the numbers,no crono,but it is mild and accurate.. A fun loading..

Edited December 19, 2008 by bompa

[Duane Thomas]

But, are you saying that you can use Clays ONLY with lead bullets?

Nope.

[ChuckS]

Kyle,

Do try some 124's with a fast powder. I have a CZ SP-01 which weighs in at a hefty 41.6 oz. I have found that WWB 115 was a bit snappy but any of the 147s seemed "slow" like you have noticed. I shoot a 124 plated bullet (like lead w/o the smoke) over N-320 at about 133 PF and it is very soft. I did some development loads that came in at 120 and they felt like a .22. I use a #12 recoil spring on a slide similar to yours with no function problems.

Good luck and welcome to the forum!

Chuck

[All-Gator]

Alwaystrying,

It was a borrowed Para LDA (5-inch barrel) because I'm waiting for my CZ from Arizona. Absolutely no pressure signs...remember I was using WSR primers. But I don't think that softer primers would have any problems. As a matter of fact, I do plan to use Federals in the future because I had the pistol "re-springed" to much weaker recoil/main springs.

BTW, Clays has the same burn rate as Bullseye. I shot NRA for years using Bullseye behind lead wadcutters for Centerfire (i.e., 38 Special in a S&W 52)...I remember the load to be 2.7 or 2.8 but don't remember the weight of the bullet (maybe 130 gr.). I wouldn't imagine any problems if one wanted to use cast lead bullets.

The 3.0 and 3.2 loads produced very little "flip" with the sights never leaving the A-zone.

A-G

[Jim Watson]

I load 9mm with HP38 which is not as clean as some and seems not to be favored by those sensitive to the quality of the recoil, but it meters very precisely, which matters more to me.

147 gr Hornady FMJ + 3.4 gr HP38 + WSP = 854 fps in 5" Springfield, just barely Minor.

145 gr Valiant cast + 3.2 gr HP38 + WSP = 865 fps in 5" Springfield.

[SLM]

I'll add another vote for Solo 1000 under 147's. 3.2 to 3.3 grains under moly or MG 147's at 1.142" makes minor PF for USPSA games out of my CZ 85. I do run reduced power recoil springs in the gun but I've shot a few through my EAA Witness just for grins with no problems with a 16# spring in it.