Newbie Loader for Production USPSA

[JeffWard]

I need advice on where to START!

Here's my profile:

I just bought a Dillon Square Deal.

I have 1000 once-fired 9mm brass, mostly my own WWB.

I shoot a box-stock (so far) M&P Pro Series (polished chamber and feed ramp due to some extraction issues). I have about 600 rounds through the gun, and about 1000 dry-fires, and the trigger is getting better.

I'm an "accurate" shooter (sub-2" groups at 7yds), and my speed is improving. I can regularly make A-Zone hits (36 out of 40) with "controled pairs" at 7 yds on my own USPSA targets.

I have no idea what my split times are, as I don't own a timer, but I'm "as fast" (stage time) as most of the shooters in my local shoots in Production Class, with only TWO matches under my belt.

From thread surfing and talking to other shooters... what I THINK I know so far:

1. Most guys shoot 124-125gr jhps due to loading costs.

2. 147gr bullets shoot "softer" and very well in M&Ps for a few cents more.

3. Faster burning powders perform better in non-comp (Production) guns.

4. Some 5" M&P owners (including me) have had issues with extraction, and found that a polished chamber and a 13lb recoil spring cured all issues.

First: Am I right about the above?

Second: I understand there are as many "perfect loads" as there are loaders... But where is a good place to start for reasonable cost, and above average accuracy, with managable recoil?

Third: If I choose to go to a 13lb spring for my M&P, where do I shop?

Thanks!!!!!

JeffWard

[Graham Smith]

A good place to start is with Montana Gold 121gr bullets and Titegroup powder.

[revchuck]

A good place to start is with Montana Gold 121gr bullets and Titegroup powder.

This is the combination I've been using as well, and it works well in my M&P FS. More specifically, MG 121 grain IFP bullet loaded to 1.10" over 4.3 grains of TG.

[uscbigdawg]

Try everything. If you're going to stay local, then it's tough to beat 124gr. bullet and W231. Yeah the powder is temperature and pressure sensative, but if you're staying near home, it's not a big issue. My 9mm load for my G34 is a 147gr. FMJ w/ N350 (a slow powder). It is super accurate.

Get set up and start working on groups at 25 & 50.

Rich

[-JQ-]

Welcome to the forum!

There is a lot to learn here...you can ask pretty much anything and get an answer or opinion. Also don't forget to use the search function as there is a ton of stuff out there already, too. I'm just starting to reload myself so welcome to the newbie loader club too...I'm so new I putting it together this afternoon.

Ever twist a throttle? I bet you get asked that a bunch huh? And if you are...

Good luck!

[JeffWard]

Ever twist a throttle? I bet you get asked that a bunch huh? And if you are...

Good luck!

I've twisted many a throttle, most recently on a GSXR 1000. No, it wasn't a Kawasaki, and no, I didn't just retire from Indy... No I'm not THAT Jeff Ward, but I know his accountant.

I wish...

Being 6'4" tall, and around 240 lbs, I'm a bit big for bike racing... or Indy cars... My next bike will be big, looooong, and slow, with a huge rear tire... LOL

I have a guy at my local range who has been shooting and loading for years, and he owns a M&P9 Pro too. He is a distributor for components, so I can avoid haz-mat fees. I'm checking with him... Likely 125s over TightGroup, to standard lengths, and then go from there...

Basic Questons:

Pros and Cons????

1) Heavier vs Lighter bullets?

2) Faster vs slower burning powders?

3) Loading closer to 125 PF, or loading higher?

4) Is there any difference at all, brand for brand between different 124/125gr bullets?

5) FMJ vs JHP?

Opinions?

FACTS???

Thanks,

Jeff

[hartzpad]

I'm the one that added a 13 lb. recoil spring to my M&P Pro and it cured the stovepiping.

Guide Rods: http://www.speedshooterspecialties.com/cat...ries=Guide+Rods

Springs: http://www.speedshooterspecialties.com/cat...egories=Springs

I just started reloading 9mm with a Lee Pro 1000 for my M&P Pro and CZ SP-01. I've loaded a variety of Berry's 124 gr. RN plated, Berry's 147 gr. RN plated and some 125 gr. RN lead rounds to test out in my guns to see what I want "my load" to be for a large run. I'm running both Titegroup and WSF powders with different combinations. I'm borrowing a choro next week to see what will make minor, have soft recoil and not smoke a ton. I'll let you know how it goes.

[JeffWard]

Pros and Cons????

1) Heavier vs Lighter bullets? Heavier will give you a softer 'push', vs. a slightly quicker 'snappy' feeling.

2) Faster vs slower burning powders? I use Titegroup, N320, or N330 - so I like the faster powders.

3) Loading closer to 125 PF, or loading higher? Definitely don't try to 'mousefart' the load - go for 132-135pf - it's more sure on falling steel.

4) Is there any difference at all, brand for brand between different 124/125gr bullets? Don't know.

5) FMJ vs JHP? JHP = literally no smoke, as well as MTG 147 CMJ's.

MTG 147 CMJ's? As in Montana Gold 147gr Conical Metal Jacket????

So far I'm seeing 147gr JHP over Tightgroup in my future?

Jeff

[NoSteel]

I also run the Pro as well as an 9FS. Currently using the Pro in Limited class due to my club using USPSA Production class rules and the Pro has not yet been accepted. 23rnds with HUGE magwell is a lot of fun!!!!

I ran a 147gr but didn't care for it. Current favorite is a 125gr JHP Zero over 3.9gr Titegroup at 1.112 OAL. CCI Primers Over 1500 rnds with not a single fail. Feeds in both FS and Pro with no problems. This include a match this past week below 20deg...... And yes, the large poppers will go down!!!!

[joseywales]

Pros and Cons????

1) Heavier vs Lighter bullets? Heavier will give you a softer 'push', vs. a slightly quicker 'snappy' feeling.

2) Faster vs slower burning powders? I use Titegroup, N320, or N330 - so I like the faster powders.

3) Loading closer to 125 PF, or loading higher? Definitely don't try to 'mousefart' the load - go for 132-135pf - it's more sure on falling steel.

4) Is there any difference at all, brand for brand between different 124/125gr bullets? Don't know.

5) FMJ vs JHP? JHP = literally no smoke, as well as MTG 147 CMJ's.

MTG 147 CMJ's? As in Montana Gold 147gr Conical Metal Jacket????

Montana Gold CMJ - I think they call it Complete Metal Jacket. 147 CMJ's or 124 JHP's - I like both.

[BayouSlide]

I really like the accuracy and shootability of 3.3 grains of Titegroup and a 147 gr. Zero JHP. Chronos at a PF of 136-8 in my G34.

Curtis

[JeffWard]

Okay... Reloading "short hand"...

"147 zero JHP"

What's "zero"? No crimp?

Thanks

Jeff

[ChuckS]

Okay... Reloading "short hand"...

"147 zero JHP"

What's "zero"? No crimp?

Thanks

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Zero is a brand of bullet: http://www.zerobullets.com/

It is also the amount of Zero bullets people have in stock . They have been pretty hard to come by for quite a while.

Welcome!

Chuck

[Mohawk Mike]

I am shooting a full size 9mm M&P, all stock except for a Burwell trigger job. I got several different weights of bullets in small 100 count boxes. I experimented and decided to go with the 147's. Now on my second case of them from Montana Gold. They shoot great. Load is 147 Montana Gold cmj, 3.4 grains of Titegroup, oal 1.130.

[SA Friday]

I am shooting a full size 9mm M&P, all stock except for a Burwell trigger job. I got several different weights of bullets in small 100 count boxes. I experimented and decided to go with the 147's. Now on my second case of them from Montana Gold. They shoot great. Load is 147 Montana Gold cmj, 3.4 grains of Titegroup, oal 1.130.

This is staple food fodder for USPSA, right here. BayouSlide's load is .1gr higher than mine with the same components. 3.2 to 3.4 gr with either a Montana Gold or Zero 147gr bullet, good to go. 1.125-1.130 OAL, combine with mixed brass of your choosing and top it off with a WPS or Fed 100 primer and enjoy. Another good one is the above with 3.4gr of Solo 1000 or N320. With Black bullets, stick to Solo 1000 or WST.

Some like Clays. I do to, but in 45 ACP and not my 9mm, but some like it...

There are slower powders that will work also, WSF, Univ Clays...

Essentially if you like to tinker, you will end up trying a lot of stuff. If you want to get to where you are going to end up anyway right from the start, refer to my first paragraph, try out a few of them and go with what's reliable, accurate, and cheap.

[Sarge]

I hate the word Newbie but I will relent and use it just this once.

Hi everyone, newbie here.

Is there a way to get small numbers of bullets from montana gold so I can experiment? And this one has me stumped, why do some prefer to shoot hollow points in matches? They clearly cost more.

Thanks

[VegasOPM]

If you want a cheaper way to start, you can try my load too. 115gr Berry's TMJ (total metal jacket) stoked with 4.5 gr of 700X. The recoil is a bit snappier than the 147/ Titegroup load, but they hit point of aim on all my fixed-sight guns.

[Duane Thomas]

Hi everyone, newbie here.

Is there a way to get small numbers of bullets from montana gold so I can experiment? And this one has me stumped, why do some prefer to shoot hollow points in matches? They clearly cost more.

Montana Gold has little packs of, if memory serves me correctly, five bullets (you see them a lot at major matches) as giveaways for people to try the product. If you call them up, they may well send you a few to try out, at minimal to no charge.

Hollowpoints, theoretically at least, MAY offer certain accuracy advantages. Honestly, though, this can vary from gun to gun. Frankly, I've tested so many guns for articles that have shot their best - I'm talking one-hole groups at 50 feet - with generic ball over the high-zoot hollowpoints that I tend to view claims that any one bullet type is innately best with profound suspicion.

[Nik Habicht]

My 147 gr. production loads have used Star FMJ heads (machinery was sold to Precision Delta I believe, when Star went out of business), MG 147 CMJ, and Zero 147 JHP --- all without changing any of the settings on the press. All three heads have worked for me, interchangeably, others have reported issues with any of the above heads in their guns/loads, so initially order a reasonable quantity of whatever you wish to try --- say one case at most....

I spent years loading everything with Winchester 231, and probably still would be except that I couldn't buy any at an Area match when I needed powder. I could buy Titegroup for the same price, and knew that there were a lot of people loading with it --- so I switched. I'm not married to either one, both do the job.....

Loading on anything other than a 1050, I recommend Federal primers for reliable ignition even on those rounds where primer seating is less than ideal. (I nderstand some people have kaboomed a 650 with Federal primers, I've so far managed to avoid that....)

In the beginning, go slow and don't mass produce ammo until you're sure it will meet your needs. Focus on operating the press smoothly and consistently to produce the best ammo. Allow the speed to build naturally as you get in the rhythm of things. Smooth and consistent are more important than shaving 30 seconds to a minute off your time to load 100 rounds....

[WestWorld]

When I started reloading, I didn't know anyone that did. Getting started seems like a duanting task with so much info out there. I picked up the Speer reloading manual, purchased the exact components of a recipe out of that manual and started from there. Using the exact components ruled out mistakes I might make with OAL, powder loads and such. After I got comfortable with the mechanics, math(and vodoo) of the reloading process , I branched out and started to experiment. Good luck and have fun.

[JeffWard]

I there an OAL that M&P's tend to prefer?

I've read that reliability is all in the OAL. After you've determined the OAL your gun likes, adjust your PF with powder from there. Or is this just for race guns?

In theory, which feeds more reliably, a longer OAL, or a shorter OAL?

Thanks,

JeffWard

[revchuck]

I there an OAL that M&P's tend to prefer?

I've read that reliability is all in the OAL. After you've determined the OAL your gun likes, adjust your PF with powder from there. Or is this just for race guns?

In theory, which feeds more reliably, a longer OAL, or a shorter OAL?

Thanks,

JeffWard

Jeff - OAL depends on the bullet used. Some bullets - for example, the Hornady 124 grain flat point and the 122 grain cast flat point that mimics it - require a short OAL (1.05"). Generic FMJ seems to work best at about 1.15", which is the length most factory FMJ is. Hollowpoints fall somewhere in between, but seem to work in the 1.10-1.12" area. My M&P9 full size has eaten everything I've loaded into it, including Blazer and Monarch hardball, Federal Tactical Bonded 135 grain +P (my carry load in 9x19), and my handloads with 121 grain IFPs, 122 grain LTCs and 147 grain LTCs.

[hartzpad]

I just shot my M&P Pro at a match yesterday for the first time and it ran great witha 13 lb. recoil spring. I just started reloading and ran about 200 reloads in the match using mixed cases, 125 gr. Round Nose lead bullets, 4.8 gr. of WSF powder, loaded to OAL 1.130" and it chrono's around 1070 fps or 133 PF.