peacemaker25 Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Here's what I can't figure out. USPSA has about 17,000 members. SASS, on the other hand, has over 80,000. Whenever people talk about competition shooting, one of their major beefs is with the cost of the equipment. And yet, the entry level requirements for USPSA are half what they are for SASS. Basics Production Rig: Used G17: $400 Instructor Belt: $40 Cheap kydex holster: $18 Ditto Pouches: $25 Total: $483. Basic SASS Rig: Pair of used Blackhawks: $600 Rossi '92: $400 Old Stevens 311 SxS: $250 El Cheapo leather: $150 Total: $1400 Also, SASS is full of former IPSC shooters. Was founded by former IPSC shooters. Yet, I think it's rare for anyone to migrate the other way. Personally, I got hooked by competitive shooting in SASS, and was curious (like the USPSA ad in the SASS magazine says) to see what I could do with more modern stuff. I'm sure that there may be a marketing person in the crowd who might explain things to me a bit better. ~~~Jesse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I may be off base, but I see one as more of an activity and one as more of a competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharonAnne9x23 Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 SASS is a social group for playing cowboy. The shooting is only part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Here's what I can't figure out. USPSA has about 17,000 members. SASS, on the other hand, has over 80,000. Whenever people talk about competition shooting, one of their major beefs is with the cost of the equipment. And yet, the entry level requirements for USPSA are half what they are for SASS.Basics Production Rig: Used G17: $400 Instructor Belt: $40 Cheap kydex holster: $18 Ditto Pouches: $25 Total: $483. Basic SASS Rig: Pair of used Blackhawks: $600 Rossi '92: $400 Old Stevens 311 SxS: $250 El Cheapo leather: $150 Total: $1400 Also, SASS is full of former IPSC shooters. Was founded by former IPSC shooters. Yet, I think it's rare for anyone to migrate the other way. Personally, I got hooked by competitive shooting in SASS, and was curious (like the USPSA ad in the SASS magazine says) to see what I could do with more modern stuff. I'm sure that there may be a marketing person in the crowd who might explain things to me a bit better. ~~~Jesse My take is that most of SASS is more about a social event than anything else. In your cost break down above, you left out the cost of the clothing. By the time you add in shooting clothes, an after the match get up, and an outfit for the Governor's Ball, you have easily added another $1000.00 to the cost. If you look at their newsletter, it is 10 times as large as Front Sight and the majority of the ads are for clothing. USPSA matches also have a gun culture component which is frankly what I enjoy most about it. But the cowboys made their mark from the beginning about the "event" rather than the competiton and it appears to me that for many of that group, they only shoot in order to get to go to the overall event. The two sports attract different sorts of people and I do not think that the SASS takes anything away from USPSA and vice versa. I also believe that the top dogs from either sport can cross over and quickly be a top dog there as well. I have several friends that shoot cowboy but if you ask them, when they hear a window break in the house in the middle of the night, the 45 army is not what they reach for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMBOpen Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 With regard to shooting ability, Jesse Abbate and Randi Rodgers have done well in both organizations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 By the same token if you have a Production, Limited, SS and Open gun what is the cost? Or for 3 Gun, pistol, rifle and shotgun plus associated gear for each. It is all relative, both are shooting sports that appeal to different people. It is still about nice guns no matter which one you choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I suspect that my former number is counted in that 80K number, but since I haven't renewed or shot a match in years, it doesn't mean much. USPSA does not re-issue numbers and I don't believe SASS does either. I know SASS is very popular, for reasons already discussed here, but comparing numbers can be difficult at best. I have no idea of what the real active member numbers of SASS might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacemaker25 Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 My take is that most of SASS is more about a social event than anything else. In your cost break down above, you left out the cost of the clothing. By the time you add in shooting clothes, an after the match get up, and an outfit for the Governor's Ball, you have easily added another $1000.00 to the cost. If you look at their newsletter, it is 10 times as large as Front Sight and the majority of the ads are for clothing.USPSA matches also have a gun culture component which is frankly what I enjoy most about it. But the cowboys made their mark from the beginning about the "event" rather than the competiton and it appears to me that for many of that group, they only shoot in order to get to go to the overall event. The two sports attract different sorts of people and I do not think that the SASS takes anything away from USPSA and vice versa. I also believe that the top dogs from either sport can cross over and quickly be a top dog there as well. I have several friends that shoot cowboy but if you ask them, when they hear a window break in the house in the middle of the night, the 45 army is not what they reach for. I guess I'm a touch blinded by the crew of "gamers" (as the more fiercely competitive types are known on that side of the fence) that I tend to hang with. While I, (and they) enjoy the dress up and socializing parts, as well as the shooting parts, I don't tend to mix the two. Example: even though I've got all the fancy duds for the banquets and such at the big matches, my shooting gear is as simple and function oriented as possible. At any rate, I'm trying to test that theory of "seasoned competitors making the transition easily." I won the Ohio State Championship this year in SASS, but just shot my third ever USPSA match this weekend. So far, I've identified a number of points to work on. RELOADS! Especially in Single Stack. Shooting on the move, instead of the "sprint-plant your feet-then blast," theory. Don't aim at the whole target, as there are these pesky little things called "points." FINGER! And not looking for a rifle when I see a target further away than ten yards. Gonna be interesting. ~~~Jesse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 .....SASS is full of former IPSC shooters. .... This will be even more true when we aren't allowed to own certain guns and accessories anymore. I've gone to a couple of SASS events, looks like fun to me. A little over-board on the clothing, acting, but that's part of the fun for most people. SASS offers escapism. Seems to be a vaction from real-life every time you go to a meet. People like vacations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZ Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Michael Bane discussed how interest in SASS has been on the decrease back in a podcast back in September. You can find an archived podcast here: http://www.downrange.tv/radio/74.htm Forward to about 34:26 and listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 I suspect that my former number is counted in that 80K number, but since I haven't renewed or shot a match in years, it doesn't mean much. USPSA does not re-issue numbers and I don't believe SASS does either.I know SASS is very popular, for reasons already discussed here, but comparing numbers can be difficult at best. I have no idea of what the real active member numbers of SASS might be. I'm an IDPA member and never shot a match, FWIW. I have: STI Edge from Brazos (hard chromed with tuning) STI Trubore STI Trojan STI Tactical 5.0 STI Eagle 5.0 Cost has nothing to do with where my memberships are. Don't ask how much I have in 511 pants or shooters shirts. I shoot USPSA because I enjoy the rush of the shooting. I have not shot an IDPA match because there aren't any close to me. I have no desire to shoot cowboy action stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 I may be off base, but I see one as more of an activity and one as more of a competition. SASS is a social group for playing cowboy. The shooting is only part of it. I think Sharonane and Flex have nailed it. SASS is more of a social activity than the competiton that USPSA/IPSC is. JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 What Gary said. USPSA has issued up past 60K numbers so use that in your comparisons instead of the current membership of ~17K. You also missed the cost of the clothing that seems to be required for SASS. I remember watching Shooting USA or one of those programs and the boots and hat that the host bought cost more than my first car. And the wife makes fun of my for my $50 TechWear shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Some shooting organizations report total-members-since-ever. Some report current-members-plus-life-members., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwaystryin Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 The main difference for me is: When I shoot SASS my brain doesn't explode from trying to figure how my score is going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighVelocity Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 I shoot SASS (not lately), and you forgot to add the cost of the gun cart and the duds. $1400 isn't even close. It's a lot of fun and if you really get into it, the competition is fierce. Last weekend at a USPSA match, I had my wallet open while paying the match fee and a guy sees my SASS card and barks out my SASS handle and asks where the rest of my guns are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 The main difference for me is:When I shoot SASS my brain doesn't explode from trying to figure how my score is going. Every match I have been to posts results. Just shoot, have fun, check the results when you are finished for the day. It is NOT tough to figure out hit factors or you MUST know up-to-the-minutes results tho. If you ask an experienced shooter in your squad, they will help you for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I guess I'm a touch blinded by the crew of "gamers" (as the more fiercely competitive types are known on that side of the fence) that I tend to hang with. While I, (and they) enjoy the dress up and socializing parts, as well as the shooting parts, I don't tend to mix the two. Example: even though I've got all the fancy duds for the banquets and such at the big matches, my shooting gear is as simple and function oriented as possible. Jesse: In USPSA we do not allow anyone to call anyone else a "Gamer" unless they smile when they say it. And actually if I tried to leave the house with fancy dress up gear to go to a match, my wife might make sure the house was empty when I returned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Jesse: In USPSA we do not allow anyone to call anyone else a "Gamer" unless they smile when they say it. I think this is the Jesse that shot with me last Saturday (Circleville?). If so, we probably covered that gamer thing pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaunH Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 We have SASS shooters that shoot at our club. Big time social event and dress-up. They do as much talking as they do shooting, which isn't bad, but when I have to setup the next day for an IPSC match I want them to get off the range. I'm trying to figure out why a guy was shooting an SASS match at our club dressed up as a knight? As for the social aspect, SASS reminds me of the blackpowder rendezvous and I hear it is really family friendly. My girlfriend was telling me that she might want to try SASS, I told her I'd buy her an open gun if she changed her mind. Worked, but I didn't give her a time frame and it doesn't mean I won't use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashanator Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Well I don't know about the membership levels but they are both very much about the shooting. The difference is that the bottom 40% at a SASS match can still have fun even know they are not in contention. At the highest levels cowboy action shooting is every bit as challenging as USPSA is if not more so, 3 types of guns and re-holsters. I shoot both, and like both. I am just getting back into the USPSA shooting recently but I am a regional champion in cowboy action shooting. I started many years ago in IPSC and got turned off by the elitist attitude of many of the shooters. I started competing again in SASS events 6 years ago due to the family friendly nature of the sport. My wife, son, and daughter all shoot as well and the kids were 9 and 11 when we started. All were welcomed with open arms. In my opinion if you look at both objectively they both have a lot to offer. Many of the top SASS shooters have been or are still pretty well thought of in the USPSA circles. And for those who might be willing to give it a try, come on out sometime SASS is a friendly bunch too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Tombstone Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 In our area we have no active IPSC club, had a rare IDPA shoot several yrs back but no more. The only active club is the SASS club. When I first joined I had a little trouble with the costuming because I was there to shoot and compete. Make no mistake, many of us are there for the competition. Trigger time is good time, is my motto. Part of the difference is that SASS does have those other aspects, folks who want to dress up and talk are encouraged to do it, folks who want to compete and shoot fast are also welcome, the relatively new buckaroo division is attractice to youngsters as well, there are also lots of age based and shooting style based catagories, kind of a built in handicap system you can utilize if you like. I wish we had more USPSA events nearby cause I would do that as well. Cheers Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLaFives Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 (edited) The costuming can be darn cheap if you so choose. A used pair of jeans with bachelor buttons you hammer in. A pair of packer boots, a felt hat and a henley shirt . Probably set you back $150 and you can use the shirt, shoes and hat for anything else and the whole outfit for a reserve holloween costume in a pinch. Edited November 7, 2008 by JoeLaFives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 ... A used pair of jeans with bachelor buttons ... Joe, what are "bachelor buttons"? I Googled, and found that they are blue flowers. Does SASS require flowers on your jeans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Dan Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 My wife, son, and daughter all shoot as well and the kids were 9 and 11 when we started. How cool is that! I can't imagine a kid that would NOT want to dress up like a cowboy and shoot REAL guns. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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