Concealed Handgun

[Txkid]

Thank you for the all the suggestions, I never carried a gun so it is good to hear from others that had.

I realize the point, use a gun that you will carry everyday otherwise what is the point? Mouse gun is better than NO Gun when you need it!

For me specially living in Texas it gets hot in the summer time and I sweat like a rag more than most folks!

So the inside the waistband holster goes out the door for the hot summer time but I for the cooler time of the year I think that's the way to go. I guess in can use my M&P 40 for the winter time.

But for year round climate I need to consider what I can conceal and feels good in my pocket and in my hand.

Thomas

[Micah]

Blue Glock 26.

Fixed

Thank you Alan!

My pic is for several reasons:

1-Availability of holsters

2-Strength of ammo-modern +p 124g Gold Dots are just as good if not better than carry 40 loads

3-Functionality-The little bastard isn't going to clam up on you

4-Practice-Go ahead and buy a .357 Sig and see how much ammo you shoot through it at the range. Now buy a 9mm

[want2race]

I carry a G23 nearly everyday. It's not too big. Untucked T-shirt conceals the Milt Sparks Watch Six. For church or other "tucked shirt" affairs (Steel1212's wedding) I may carry the wifes Colt .380 Government. Soon to be replaced by a compact STI wide body since I don't like shooting a Glock.

[ben b.]

Given your options, the M&P 9 would be my choice.

My pocket guns get carried everyday. My belt guns get carried once every week or two. It is easier to hide the pocket guns, and easier to carry them, no problems with "bump-frisk", generally just less hassle.

PM9 and J-frames are great in the pocket. I have a PM40 that shoots 7 shots as well as a service gun in any situation up to 15-20 yards, meaning generally -0. I can't do that with the J-frame, but we know what the likely distance is, anyway. The J-frame has an edge in ease of draw from a pocket.

[D.Hayden]

Maybe look at a .380 Keltec P-3AT

talk about small...

Calibers : .380 AUTO

Weight unloaded lbs. : 8.3 oz.

Loaded magazine : 2.8 oz.

Length : 5.2"

Height : 3.5"

Width : .77"

Sight radius : 3.8"

[G-ManBart]

2-Strength of ammo-modern +p 124g Gold Dots are just as good if not better than carry 40 loads

A lot of that depends on the .40 load. Our ballistics guys just spent months researching new .40 loads and found that the Winchester Bonded 180gr JHP (product code Q4355) outperformed even their current .45 load (230gr Rem Golden Sabre). It was also quite a bit better than all the 9mm they tested. They quickly started putting out requests for new .45 and 9mm to see if they can find similar gains with the newest stuff released....they do this every couple of years at least.

A really interesting article that might help the thread starter pick the matching ammo for whatever he chooses:

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

Edited October 3, 2008 by G-ManBart

[Graham Smith]

Let's face it, the main function of a concealed carry gun is defense "up close and personal". At those kind of ranges, even a 380 can do the job with today's high quality defensive ammo - one or two shots to the hip and/or groin at 10' with a 380 hollow point and even a linebacker is going to stop whatever they are doing. In fact, the quality of defensive ammo available today has pretty much rendered the argument for the need for a .45 for concealed carry obsolete.

I had a chance to handle a Ruger LCP recently. Talk about a mouse gun! But truth be told, at under $300, I came close to buying one as a summer "always in the pocket" gun. Maybe once I get around to selling the PM9, I'll take another look.

[al503]

Haven't read every post here but my vote goes a P7M8 or PSP.

It takes a little getting used to the squeeze cocker and may not be as light as the some of the other options but it is thin, and extremely accurate and reliable.

[ben b.]

...Our ballistics guys just spent months researching new .40 loads and found that the Winchester Bonded 180gr JHP (product code Q4355) outperformed even their current .45 load (230gr Rem Golden Sabre). It was also quite a bit better than all the 9mm they tested. ...

Do you mean that the new .40s penetration jumped to umpteen", or expanded to .85", or performed after hard cover, or what? Gello is gello. Best, cleanest, homogenous, most objective measure available, and still a lousy predictor.

Good 9mm ammo is as well-suited for the wretched business as anything, at least in a handgun.

Thanks for posting that link. That was the reason I picked #1 buck a few years back, then lost my reference.

[Jim Rusert]

Titanium J Frame S&W .38 +P in my pocket or in my briefcase if on business.

[tpcdvc]

Let's face it, the main function of a concealed carry gun is defense "up close and personal". At those kind of ranges, even a 380 can do the job with today's high quality defensive ammo - one or two shots to the hip and/or groin at 10' with a 380 hollow point and even a linebacker is going to stop whatever they are doing. In fact, the quality of defensive ammo available today has pretty much rendered the argument for the need for a .45 for concealed carry obsolete.

I had a chance to handle a Ruger LCP recently. Talk about a mouse gun! But truth be told, at under $300, I came close to buying one as a summer "always in the pocket" gun. Maybe once I get around to selling the PM9, I'll take another look.

Well I don't know how much experience you have had with "todays bullets" but I have hunted a ton with 357mags 44's and 45's...... and I can tell you first hand by the handfuls of rounds I have recovered from deer and other large game that a hollow point (Gold Dot,XTP,ect..I've used most all of the brands) is very inconsistent. Some did a great job. Others folded in on themselves and barley expanded. So in reality all your assured to be left with is the original diameter. In my experience the most efficient pistol rounds for taking medium to large game are bigger bores. Also, foot pounds does not seem to enter the equation until 1200+(more like 1700). So all your left with is permanent wound channel and it helps when it is big.

How this relates to self defense I'll let y'all decide.

[jjanglin]

I use a caspian officers model with a commander style slide in 38 super,

with one of cylinder and slides trick ambi safeties.

I load a 147 grain HP

Use a Calco inside the waist holster.

Jim/Pa

Sailors

[iainmcphersn]

Since you already have an M&P in 40, get the compact model in 40. You can use the same ammo in both guns, whether for practice or defence. You can carry them both and use the full size mag in either. A holster that fits the full size should also fit the compact.

Personally, I have a Glock 17, 19 and 26. The G26 goes into a pocket holster for carry, the G19 goes on the belt for concealed carry and some competition. The G17 is my usual match pistol, USPSA or IDPA. I carry G17 mags as spares no matter which gun(s) I am carrying. If I have to reload, I won't care that the mag sticks out a little far.

My 2 cents, YMMV,

John

[rvb]

I go with J-frame in a pocket, of if I am going to bother with a holster it will be a Commander 45 IWB, if for some reason I have to go somewhere I need more I go with a G22 IWB and deal with concealing it. Concealing a baby Glock (or an M&P) is only very slightly easier than concealing a duty sized gun, I don't bother.

+1

642 .38 spl in my pocket right now with 5 extra rounds on a bianchi strip. Only the majority of the time it's in a galco pocket holster.

Sig P220 (.45acp) if I'm traveling the freeways or have to go somewhere I don't really want to go.

-rvb

[steel1212]

WoW, I'm kinda surprised by the responses from some of these people. During the summer months or when I need to be really sneaky its a J frame snubby. When I can get away with it in the summer or all winter its a full size TRP. Yes, I carry every day when I'm not working, can't in the company truck.....errr not suppose to , and with the VMII the TRP isn't that big of a deal. I think Want2race's carry gun he is working on will be the ticket though. High capacity, light, 1911 trigger.

[longrange2]

You should consider the Springfield EMP. Great gun, very accurate, light weight and very easy to carry. You can hide it under just about anything given a good holster. I typically prefer a full size 1911 or commander for carry but the EMP is great when I have to carry smaller/lighter. A good backup for your primary gun is a S&W j frame like the 442 or 642. With a good pocket holster you can carry one anywhere.

[TonyT]

I prefer the S&W Model 642 or Kahr PM9 for truly concealed carry. Both fit nicely into a pocket holster and can be worn with the lightest of clothing.

[Txkid]

After reading the responses I am very surprised for what some people carry everyday.

It makes me think …… to not to piss off some of y’all.

After looking at the suggestions, price of the guns etc. now I am considering going for the S&W J Frames. The 642 price is right and I do reload 38 Special so that helps to. But I don’t mind getting a Glock since I never have one.

[ima45dv8]

I don't think I saw it mentioned, so I'll add that whatever you decide on, it's a good idea to carry spare ammo for it.

[Graham Smith]

Well I don't know how much experience you have had with "todays bullets" ...

Not a lot of first hand experience. But past experience includes several years working in Army medical labs and assisting with autopsies, including a number of different fatal gunshots. Current experience is largely based on police, medical, and defense reports on wound ballistics.

How this relates to self defense I'll let y'all decide.

There is not a lot of correlation between hunting ammo and defensive ammo. The terminal and wound ballistics are significantly different. In fact, a lot of the wound ballistics used to test and evaluate ammunition are not that good because they are based on firing into ballistics gel which is homogeneous in texture and density - something which human and animal bodies are not. In addition, some wound ballistics studies are done at distances well beyond the typical distance of defensive shootings.

It is interesting to note that the entire mind-set and design for defensive ammo has taken a significantly different tact recently, with a strong emphasis on shooting in an urban environment. One significant consideration for that is to design bullets that will not go right through the target, through a wall, and through an unintended target on the other side. This has resulted in the development of things like the Glaser Safety Slug, which can really start some heated debates.

[tpcdvc]

Well I don't know how much experience you have had with "todays bullets" ...

Not a lot of first hand experience. But past experience includes several years working in Army medical labs and assisting with autopsies, including a number of different fatal gunshots. Current experience is largely based on police, medical, and defense reports on wound ballistics.

How this relates to self defense I'll let y'all decide.

There is not a lot of correlation between hunting ammo and defensive ammo. The terminal and wound ballistics are significantly different. In fact, a lot of the wound ballistics used to test and evaluate ammunition are not that good because they are based on firing into ballistics gel which is homogeneous in texture and density - something which human and animal bodies are not. In addition, some wound ballistics studies are done at distances well beyond the typical distance of defensive shootings.

It is interesting to note that the entire mind-set and design for defensive ammo has taken a significantly different tact recently, with a strong emphasis on shooting in an urban environment. One significant consideration for that is to design bullets that will not go right through the target, through a wall, and through an unintended target on the other side. This has resulted in the development of things like the Glaser Safety Slug, which can really start some heated debates.

I would love to see these "police, medical, and defense reports on wound ballistics"!!! Could you tell me where I can access these things?

[Fireant]

Since you already have an M&P in 40, get the compact model in 40. You can use the same ammo in both guns, whether for practice or defence. You can carry them both and use the full size mag in either. A holster that fits the full size should also fit the compact.

I thought this same thing and really liked my M&P compact at first. Then the more I shot it the more it went bang, pick up the mag, bang, bang, pick up the mag. It didn't really fit my hand no matter which back strap I used. Then I never felt comfortable carrying a striker fired gun(I know it's just me) so I went with the DA/SA CZ with a kelteck in my pocket and an AR in the truck. You just never know what you might need these days.

[racerba]

There's a Kahr PM9 in the classified right now.

[tpcdvc]

Well I don't know how much experience you have had with "todays bullets" ...

Not a lot of first hand experience. But past experience includes several years working in Army medical labs and assisting with autopsies, including a number of different fatal gunshots. Current experience is largely based on police, medical, and defense reports on wound ballistics.

How this relates to self defense I'll let y'all decide.

There is not a lot of correlation between hunting ammo and defensive ammo. The terminal and wound ballistics are significantly different. In fact, a lot of the wound ballistics used to test and evaluate ammunition are not that good because they are based on firing into ballistics gel which is homogeneous in texture and density - something which human and animal bodies are not. In addition, some wound ballistics studies are done at distances well beyond the typical distance of defensive shootings.

It is interesting to note that the entire mind-set and design for defensive ammo has taken a significantly different tact recently, with a strong emphasis on shooting in an urban environment. One significant consideration for that is to design bullets that will not go right through the target, through a wall, and through an unintended target on the other side. This has resulted in the development of things like the Glaser Safety Slug, which can really start some heated debates.

Well, I'm not using "hunting ammo" as you put it. I'm really using defensive ammo. You see I buy bullets that various manufacturers use in their self protection loads and load them very close (give or take 50fps average) to their published (and verified by me) fps. So for all intensive purposes they are exactly the same. Also, I can't imagine a better medium to test these bullets in than deer, elk and hogs. Way better the the gelatin that is regularly used by the manufacture. In fact a whitetails rib bone density is just slightly less than a humans and its chest cavity depth is right at 10 or 11 inches and if you measure yours (front to back) it is probably 10 or 11 if you are an average male.

Anyway, I'm just sharing what info I have gathered after 26 years of hunting and hand-loading and if it is worth nothing to folks then fine. I'm havin' a great time anyway. So maybe you are right that a 380 will down a perp every bit as efficiently as a 45 with with those magic modern bullets but you will never convince me. I have seen too much.

As the kids say,

Piece Out

[ima45dv8]

Let's try to stick to the hardware discussion that was the original poster's question.

Discussions about the lethality of the various rounds available don't mesh with the forum guidelines.

Thanks...