XRe Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 (edited) For the past two Open nationals, some of the members of the forum have played a little side match - its not really betting, per se. It works like this - everyone puts a dollar in the pot for every D, miss, no-shoot, or shooting related penalty (extra shot on a VC or timed fire stage, etc - foot faults, failure to follow procedures, etc don't apply for this game). Everyone will have to turn over their score sheets for verification. He/she who puts in the least wins the whole pot. The game obviously rewards accuracy, and anyone at any skill level can compete and (potentially) win. It adds a little bit of fun, cameraderie, conversation, and excitement to the game - and its a cool way to meet other Benoverse members. I've made a proposal to change to $.50 per D instead of a dollar, recognizing that Ds aren't as bad as misses (but are almost there)... We've had one objection, but no other comments, as yet. If you're interested, post here! Links to previous side match threads: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=49473 and http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=39614 Current OL10 organizer is: Dave Re (XRe) Current LPR organizer is: Sharyn Cohen (Sharyn) Current, succinct rules (as of this post's edit date - further revisions may be below!): - all interested parties must notify the organizer in person, or via email, PM, phone call, or response to this thread that they are "in" before their first shot is fired in the match - no late entries accepted, no exceptions please (for what are probably obvious reasons ) - all participants agree to remain in the side match once their first match shot has been fired on their first stage of the match - each participant will contribute $1 to the pot for each: D zone hit, no-shoot, miss, procedural directly related to shooting (extra shot, extra hit, foot faults, failure to follow procedure, etc) - no-penalty misses and procedural penalties not directly attributable to the shooting (FTEs caused by failed gun or squib, directly related to prop tossing monkey motion, etc) do not require contribution, but be prepared to provide evidence thereof in the latter case!!! - due to popular demand, Stage 19 (timed fire standard) will not be used as part of the side match - the participant who completes the whole match with the lowest contribution to the pot will win the pot. All eightteen stages used for the side match must be successfully completed by the competitor (that is, must be started and have some final outcome other than a match DQ) - a participant who suffers a match DQ agrees to contribute to the pot for all Ds/Ms/penalties incurred during the match up to the point of match DQ. Match DQ obviously prevents the above condition from being completed, so a participant who suffers a DQ may not win the side match - each participant's score sheets must be made available for review by another participant at any time upon request - the organizer will use the results stations at the match to track official results, however, score sheets may be required - please save them and have them available! - each participant is required to pay contributions to the organizer between finishing their last stage and the beginning of the awards banquet - the organizer will present the winnings to the participant with the lowest contribution once all contributions have been collected - if the winner of the pot is not available for payout, the organizer will insure that (s)he receives their winnings in a timely fashion - BAIL OUT option - if you choose to bail out of the side match, you may do so at any time by finding the organizer for your match, and pay up for the Ds/Ms/penalties you've incurred to that point. You may not re-enter the match once you've bailed. (edited to update succinct rules) Edited September 5, 2008 by XRe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Everyone will have to turn over their score sheets for verification. No need. The per-competitor summary on www.uspsa.org or the results stations in the vendor tent will have this info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 No need. The per-competitor summary on www.uspsa.org or the results stations in the vendor tent will have this info. Hey, HEY! I said score sheets! We try to figure it up on the range, so waiting for the update might be a bit slow... but the results stations might be entertaining... The only problem is knowing which penalties are or are not shooting related... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer-lock Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Dave is right, this adds another way to enjoy the match and to meet some really good shooters who are willing to take your money. I have no chance of winning the pot but it is fun to hear conversations and meet the folks. Bring a roll of quarters and play. Count me in again Dave. David C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Stoeger Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Count me in for LPR... if someone wants to take charge that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 I've made a proposal to change to $.50 per D instead of a dollar, recognizing that Ds aren't as bad as misses (but are almost there)... We've had one objection, but no other comments, as yet. I'm not going this year, but I'll comment anyway. (in case I go next yr) D-hits are sloppy hits, even at Major. 50 cent? Sounds like ya want to hit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 The only problem is knowing which penalties are or are not shooting related... The results station will list misses, procedurals and no-shoots separately (to the best of my recollection - the system is currently in transit to Tulsa). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 The only problem is knowing which penalties are or are not shooting related... The results station will list misses, procedurals and no-shoots separately (to the best of my recollection - the system is currently in transit to Tulsa). Procedurals could be FTEs or foot faults. One is shooting related... the other isn't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 All right I'm in for Open/L10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 (edited) I'm in for open. I've been shooting sloppy the last couple of months, maybe this will tighten me back up. Edited September 3, 2008 by Fireant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 What was the reason for not including non-shooting procedurals? If someone gets a 10 point procedural for faulting a line, is that different than a 10 point procedural for not engaging a target? BTW, how much did the winner end up with last year? Are you only doing this for Open, or L10 and is there a difference in the pots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Procedurals could be FTEs or foot faults. One is shooting related... the other isn't... Aren't those "shooting" related since it's related to a shooting match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 played this once at another match.. pretty much put in for anything not a A, B, or C hit.. all divisions can play as it has no bearing on time through a stage..only the hits and penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 The orignal idea (that I think Ong came up with) was to only count the shooting. If a shooter's gun went tits up (squib, broken bushing, etc) and they FTE'd 6 targets, then that wasn't to count against them. Might be a good idea to search the original thread from two years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Dave: I am a tad unclear. Are you talking about squads doing this or about letting as many in the match that desire to do it participate in one big pot? I would be in either way for both sets of matches but IMO we should be very, very clear as to what the rules are before we start. Of course we also need someone to hold the money and score the thing. As an incentative, we could give a percentage of the pot to the person who keeps up with it all. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Count me out...........I live for Deltas.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Deltas are worth 11 points Minor and 12 points Major! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 Links to the previous side match threads: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=49473 and http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=39614 D-hits are sloppy hits, even at Major. 50 cent? Sounds like ya want to hit them. Consider this - what if Clint shot his match last year (6 Ds), and someone else shot 3 Mikes and 2 No-shoots, but no Ds. Who should win? I'd tend to think that Clint still shot the better match, but he'd be in for $6 and the other shooter for $5... 3 or 4 points for a D simply isn't as bad as 15 for a mike or 10 for a no-shoot or procedural... It is what it is - that's just the reasoning for my proposal. What was the reason for not including non-shooting procedurals? If someone gets a 10 point procedural for faulting a line, is that different than a 10 point procedural for not engaging a target? The original reason is as Kyle explained. A search realizes that my memory is flawed Foot faults count, folks... But things related to prop-tossing-monkey-motions (of which, these matches appear to have none) do not... BTW, how much did the winner end up with last year? Are you only doing this for Open, or L10 and is there a difference in the pots. Should be able to search and find, but I think it was in the $225 neighborhood?? Everyone in the match plays the same game - that's why time isn't involved, its only on points shot and shoot related penalties... So, only one side match for all of OL10. Only one side match for all of LPR, if someone chooses to do it... I am a tad unclear. Are you talking about squads doing this or about letting as many in the match that desire to do it participate in one big pot? Everyone in one big pot. I would be in either way for both sets of matches but IMO we should be very, very clear as to what the rules are before we start. Of course we also need someone to hold the money and score the thing. As an incentative, we could give a percentage of the pot to the person who keeps up with it all. The rules are pretty straight up - see above We haven't had anyone get squirrelly, yet, but... Money comes after the match - we can't know how much you owe until then. Note - I'm adding a couple of things to my original post to clear up some other details. I've already volunteered to track the stats, collect the cash, and pay out the winner (although if someone else wants to do it, that's cool, too...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 Deltas are worth 11 points Minor and 12 points Major! It ain't down 3! Its Plus 12!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Remember a Mike is minus 15 points. a ten point penalty and the 5 points you don't get so a D is 12 points, no penalty and 2 points positive. On the other hand, five D's is the same as one Mike! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 I was agreeing with you, Jim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 What was the reason for not including non-shooting procedurals? If someone gets a 10 point procedural for faulting a line, is that different than a 10 point procedural for not engaging a target? BTW, how much did the winner end up with last year? Are you only doing this for Open, or L10 and is there a difference in the pots. I did some un-scientific research a while back, i took the 10th to 20th placing shooters in all nationals and added up what they would have paid up if in "the game" . I should not have been surprised but production shooters ended up with FAR less penalties than the other divisions, open was next but with less of a margin over the rest than i assumed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 I was agreeing with you, Jim? Yup, You were, Sometimes my humor detector goes ion the fritz. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Dave:I am a tad unclear. Are you talking about squads doing this or about letting as many in the match that desire to do it participate in one big pot? I would be in either way for both sets of matches but IMO we should be very, very clear as to what the rules are before we start. Of course we also need someone to hold the money and score the thing. As an incentative, we could give a percentage of the pot to the person who keeps up with it all. Charles He MAY be a lawyer, we neeed to watch out or what ever the total is he'll get his FEE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 Reminds me of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia episode... Charlie: Alright. So what's the vig? Frank: What? Charlie: Yeah, man. What's the vig on this action? Frank: Do you even know what VIG means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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